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Possible next turntable Thorens TD 403 DD. Any reason not to consider?

KentTeffeteller said:
For that much money, I expect a much better DD motor than an OEM one. Sorry. I also expect it to last as long as Technics, be as heavy duty in daily use, and perform as well or better. Anything less, is simply put, poor value.
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Am I missing some sort of evidence that it wouldn't or shouldn't last as long as a tech1200?
 
vinowino said:
About three months ago I bought a brand new Thorens TD 1500 model with TP 150 tonearm. It replaced my Clearaudio Concept.
It has a Charisma MC-M cartridge.
Absolutely amazing. I am now at the end of my sound chase. For 40 years I have been trying to get my sound as if Red Garland Quartet or Lightnin Hopkins were in the room. Each upgrade has got closer. It's over now. Done.
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I haven't looked at that model up close yet, does it have the same sort of ruby slider adjustment for the anti-skate as the 403?

What's the weight on that 1500?
 
tnsilver said:
It's a mass produced consumer grade appliance. How unique can it get? It'll probably disappear off the new Thorens catalog like many of their recent models. They're so neck deep in 'experimenting', they've lost their identity alright... They sure look confused.

I had no idea the Thorens was more expensive than the Techie. Get it, jeez, what are you waiting for? That's one unique legacy no-one can challenge. You can like it, you can hate it, but no one can say you're not getting your money's worth.
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Aren't a lot of the tables individuals push as amazing turntables on this site also mass produced, including the technics 1200 line?

I am in the reflecting stage right now 2k is still a lot of money to dole out, and I am still quite happy with my Pioneer plx1000. But the itchy fingers are waiting for the right moment to press the buy now button. I will see when this occurs.
 
^^
Charisma Cart.
  • Cartridge Weight: 7.5 g
  • Cartridge Body: Padauk wood
  • Cantilever: sapphire
  • Stylus: super fine line contact nude diamond
  • Vertical Tracking Angle: 20 degrees
  • Coil: pure iron crossed-coil with single crystal high purity copper
  • Output Voltage: 0.75 mV at 3.54 cm/sec.
  • Internal Impedance: 23 ohms
  • Frequency Response: 20 – 20,000 Hz ± 1 dB
  • Channel Balance: better than 1 dB
  • Channel Separation: better than 30 dB
  • Dynamic Compliance: 7 um/mN
  • Recommended Loading: 250 – 1,000 ohms
  • Recommended Tracking Force: 2.1 g ± 0.1 g
  • Tracking Ability at 315 Hz / 2 g: 60 uM
  • Recommended Tonearm Mass: medium
  • Break-in Period: 50 hours
 
ClayTune said:
What's your quality review? This is still a pricy unit. How much does it weigh? How's the Chasis? How's the tone arm? Plinth? etc.
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I am not a great reviewer of turntables but the quality seems good and it has a pretty solid feel to it. You can find in the spec that it weighs a reasonable 7.2 kg - not as heavy as my SL1200, but none of my vintage turntables are as heavy as that. The chassis is fixed (not suspended). I have already described some of the quirks of the arm. The effective-mass of the arm is quoted as 14g in the datasheet but 15g in the manual, so medium-mass anyway. Speed accuracy and stability seem excellent to me. The platter gets up to speed gradually but takes only 2 or 3 seconds, so no major inconvenience - this is probably because it has a low-torque motor. Comparing with my SL1200 Mk5 in terms of sound quality, my very rough assessment is that the TD-403 is perhaps a bit weightier and more fluid, but the SL1200 may be a tad better in terms of high-frequency resolution, and more analytical and tighter sounding.

The more expensive TD-1500 is a belt-drive with a suspended chassis and exactly the same arm as the TD-403 (so has the ruby anti-skating bearing) but with the 2M Bronze cartridge.
 
Big issue will be given the number of model changes, how spare parts, and service support will be with age on it. Thorens has changed models frequently. And the DD motor they use was outsourced from elsewhere (and not Technics). Not knocking the styling. Or how well executed the retro aspects were done.
 
Just to throw my 2 cents in here that nobody asked for ;) I say, find one that has a good return program. Hands on is much better than listening to everyone complain about it, especially those that never used one or have even seen one. Your money, your choice. Every table one asks about on here has 2 strong sides. The Pioneer took its hits when it came out. You love ours, so I would say, find a place that will take a return of the table if your not happy, and give it a run. Let us know your thoughts when you get it.
 
ClayTune said:
I am in the reflecting stage right now 2k is still a lot of money to dole out
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It sure is for a turntable and it can get you some of the best. Choose wisely! AK demographics is tough crowd but the collective knowledge base is hard to beat. If you do choose wisely, I mean real smart... you won't get second guessed by anyone. You've been here long enough to know the gist so use it in your favor before you pull the trigger. The debate you've triggered in this thread should, by it self, red flag your current path.
 
I would not buy any equipment like that without a no questions asked, no restocking fee return policy.

One thing to consider, that may or may not be important to you, is resale value. These new Thorens decks are a bit of an unproven product with a spotty history for recent models. The last generation of Thorens decks tanked here in the U.S. and were sold at closeout prices. They were also very difficult to move on the used market.

Even if resale is not a concern, long term reliability and after sales service will be an open question.
 
patient_ot said:
I would not buy any equipment like that without a no questions asked, no restocking fee return policy.

One thing to consider, that may or may not be important to you, is resale value. These new Thorens decks are a bit of an unproven product with a spotty history for recent models. The last generation of Thorens decks tanked here in the U.S. and were sold at closeout prices. They were also very difficult to move on the used market.

Even if resale is not a concern, long term reliability and after sales service will be an open question.
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Tanking doesn't mean there are problems with the units, it just means it's not appealing to the intended market?

Yes resale does not matter to me, when I research and purchase a turntable the idea is to keep it indefinitely.

I wonder, does something that retails at 2k have concerns over long term reliability? Thorens has and is a reputable company, no?

Like I said, I like unique things. This definitely qualifies. I am still quietly reflecting on this highly potential purchase.

By the way, I have two copies of that Modern Eon album you have as your avatar/ Great record. WAY before its time.
 
ClayTune said:
Interestingly that's a light plinth compared to my PLX1000 which comes in at 32 pounds, or, 14+ kgs!!!!
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The historic TD 150 was something like 7,5 kg. 3.2 kg of it was the platter. The TD 1500 doesn't need such a heavy flywheel because of modern electronic speed regulation, but it's subchassis is more substansial than the one on the TD 150, it's more like a mass balanced TD 160.
 
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ClayTune said:
Tanking doesn't mean there are problems with the units, it just means it's not appealing to the intended market?
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There was too much competition from other brands. The prices for simply weren't competitive. They didn't move and had to be marked down severely. As far as problems, I know of a few, but without enough data I cannot say if it was widespread or not. There were some units with motor failure, though these were belt-drive motors, not DD decks.

ClayTune said:
I wonder, does something that retails at 2k have concerns over long term reliability? Thorens has and is a reputable company, no?
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Price has nothing at all to do with reliability. Thorens' goodwill is mostly built up from a completely different incarnation of the company that existed in the 60s and 70s. You can think of the current incarnation as a brand name that's been resurrected.

ClayTune said:
By the way, I have two copies of that Modern Eon album you have as your avatar/ Great record. WAY before its time.
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I've had three different copies over the years. An Australian one, a Canadian one, and a UK one. I still have the UK copy and gave the others to friends. One of my favorite albums.
 
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