Power Cords and A Mac Mini. They Can Make A Difference

[E-Stat]

I've put together three DIY 12 gauge cords using highly shielded Belden 83803 instrumentation cable suggested by a colleague of John Curl. Here's the recipe.

My latest addition is a DC cord suggested by John Swenson, the designer of my microRendu streamer and LPS-1 Ultracap power supply. He discovered that using inexpensive Canare starquad cable improved sound quality. He attributes the improvements to its inherently lower inductance. For the princely sum of about eight bucks, I ordered enough cable and connectors to make a couple and gave it a whirl.

What I found was better dynamic tracking, especially at the PP end of the scale listening to some wide range 24 bit recordings.

At some point, I'll try adapting the other for a Raspberry PI player used in the garage system. The challenge is that requires USB / mini-USB connectors rather than the barrel variety.

 

[DaveVoorhis]

Well I do have a guest bedroom. I guess you wouldn't be making just a day trip. When you get a date, I will put it on the calendar.

Very kind of you and sounds like fun. When the opportunity presents itself, we will do this. I look forward to it.

 

[DaveVoorhis]

Have you never experimented with borrowed aftermarket cords in your system?

Not in mine, but in a friend's system in the 1990s. We did a number of experiments with swapping components, both visible and blind (though not particularly rigorously). It was notable the degree to which seeing what you were listening to affected perceived hearing, which is why I harp on about psychoacoustics: I've experienced the (surprising) effects. Changing power cables didn't make any non-visible sound difference, but I'm the first to admit that a few one-off attempts are hardly definitive experiments!

Perhaps you might follow my links to a range of professionals who've evaluated them.

Didn't one of the links you recently posted lead to a suggestion that the effect of shielded cables is to limit rebroadcasting of RFI, which is precisely what I suggested as a possibility in my post that you responded to, and as I've suggested elsewhere?

Note that I didn't claim that perceiving power cord differences is unquestionably and categorically due to psychoacoustics, only that it's one possibility. Another is the possibility of an un-shielded and/or unfiltered power lead acting as an antenna to both pick up and redistribute RFI. Indeed, both may be at work at once, resulting in a more prominent perception of the effect.

I'm certainly open to other possibilities too, and I discount none of them out-of-hand as long as there's some rational science behind the explanations.

 

[vwestlife]

If you want to "limit the rebroadcasting of RFI", a clip-on RF choke is a heck of a lot cheaper than some fancy-pants audiophile power cord.

http://a.co/3Tk0omD

Good computer cables usually already have one built-in.

 

[E-Stat]

Not in mine, but in a friend's system in the 1990s. We did a number of experiments with swapping components, both visible and blind (though not particularly rigorously).

Thanks. You might want to revisit that twenty-five years later! Do you recall which model(s) you tried?

Didn't one of the links you recently posted lead to a suggestion that the effect of shielded cables is to limit rebroadcasting of RFI, which is precisely what I suggested as a possibility in my post that you responded to, and as I've suggested elsewhere?

Absolutely! No guessing necessary or wondering as to the value of reducing RFI induced noise. The cord I use with the DAC is based upon a Eupen design that uses multiple shielding strategies. Read about them here.

Note that I didn't claim that perceiving power cord differences is unquestionably and categorically due to psychoacoustics, only that it's one possibility. Another is the possibility of an un-shielded and/or unfiltered power lead acting as an antenna to both pick up and redistribute RFI. Indeed, both may be at work at once, resulting in a more prominent perception of the effect.

As for me, I'm most interested in the clear benefits (to me) of improving transparency and apparent dynamic range. And that prominent recording engineers are likewise improving their techniques and lowering inherent noise levels.

I'm certainly open to other possibilities too, and I discount none of them out-of-hand as long as there's some rational science behind the explanations.

I would have thought such a music and electronics enthusiast as yourself would be more inclined to experiment. At least in this century.

Two years ago, wifey and I traveled to the Seattle area and took the ferry over to Vancouver Island. Beautiful city.

 

[E-Stat]

If you want to "limit the rebroadcasting of RFI", a clip-on RF choke is a heck of a lot cheaper than some fancy-pants audiophile power cord.

Targeted solutions like that can be helpful (I use toroids with low voltage power supplies), but are not as effective IMO as cords that are shielded throughout.

Note those are most frequently found with switching power supplies that also radiate noise directly back into the AC - chokes attenuate the radiated field only.

 

[unfairlane]

Most people can`t hear any difference simply because most powercords are just good looking crap. Been there, done that. Gold-plated sticks don`t do a thing.
Transperant`s old powercables are not bad btw, they are quite good for beeing multicore. But here as elsewhere the only way to avoid loss in cales is to og solid core. Try and make up some shielded 12awg and you might have Your eyes opened. Like from this cable:

https://www.cablewholesale.com/products/bulk-cable/fire-alarm-cable/product-11f8-5271nh.php

 

[Danddd]

Mr Pig, is this where you got the power plug: http://www.piaudiogroup.com/MPC_Power_Cable.html

 

[Mister Pig]

Mr Pig, is this where you got the power plug: http://www.piaudiogroup.com/MPC_Power_Cable.html

That is the manufacturer. I was lucky enough to find one on the secondary market.

Regards
Mister Pig

 

[Frank Sol]

>> Deleted because of Objections <<

 

[E-Stat]

Try and make up some shielded 12awg and you might have Your eyes opened. Like from this cable:

If you follow the link I provided for my DIY cable in post #21, you'll find they are very similar. Here in the states, however, we require three conductor. Click here for the datasheet.

 

[Frank Sol]

DIYing stuff like this is Fun... makes for a nice hobby

I did this a few years ago. Still using them but have added ferrite core EMI/EMC cable clamps

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/in...irs-of-power-cables-today-fun-project.467467/

 

[DaveVoorhis]

Thanks. You might want to revisit that twenty-five years later! Do you recall which model(s) you tried?

No. My buddy came into an inheritance and went on a spree of trying and buying, so for a while his gear and ancillaries were constantly changing. The listening was fun, but in those days, my interest in gear revolved around test equipment (and still does) and vintage radios (not much now). I didn't pay attention to models or brands of any of his stuff.

I would have thought such a music and electronics enthusiast as yourself would be more inclined to experiment. At least in this century.

My experimentation tends to be with other things. Not enough hours in the day, alas.

Two years ago, wifey and I traveled to the Seattle area and took the ferry over to Vancouver Island. Beautiful city.

Victoria is indeed a beautiful city. (For those not familiar with the area, Vancouver city isn't on Vancouver Island. Vancouver is on the mainland. Victoria is the biggest city on Vancouver Island.) In the six months I lived on Vancouver Island, I only visited Victoria once; I lived in Courtenay.

 

[unfairlane]

If you follow the link I provided for my DIY cable in post #21, you'll find they are very similar. Here in the states, however, we require three conductor. Click here for the datasheet.

True, but there is one major difference, the belden cable is from what I can read stranded.

Number of Conductors 3
Total Number of Conductors 3
AWG 12
Stranding 7x20
Conductor Material TC - Tinned Copper

Found a pic of it:

I`m using a cable moore like this one, a "underground-cable" With solid conductors and copper shielding.

https://www.homedepot.ca/en/home/p....gauge-63-nmwu-63-black---150m.1000127943.html

 

[Mister Pig]

The problem with threads like this, is folks are going to want to hear it to consider it. I certainly am open to having any AKer come on over and give a listen. But there are only few in the area, and most of the members here are strung out across the country, and in some cases in other countries. So that is not going to happen. Which means those folks have the choice of believing what a pig experiences, or consider the swine to be a liar, or perhaps just misguided. I will have to let you make that call. But I like to think I have decent enough equipment, and have been doing this long enough to have a good idea of what I am hearing. The digital side of my rig has gone together piece by piece, so its been evaluated at every juncture. But do what you will with the info, I am just relaying my experience and my conclusion.

Regards
Mister Pig

 

[E-Stat]

I`m using a cable moore like this one, a "underground-cable" With solid conductors and copper shielding.

I'm a bit confused. I was comparing 83803 to the 12/2 cable found in the link you provided in post # 27 from cablewholesale.com. Both are fire / instrumentation cables and have two levels of shielding.

The 6 gauge NMWU wire in your current example is not shielded, but good for 55 amps!

 

[boza]

I used this Aucharm cable for a couple of my power cables.

It's a mixture of solid core and stranded conductors with foil and braid screen and cotton fill.
It's a really good bit of wire for reasonable cost

 

[4-2-7]

The problem with threads like this, is folks are going to want to hear it to consider it.

Or at least the willingness to work with equipment before naysaying and reading on the internet. I see we have the same thread detailers in this one as all others and thats a sham.

But I like to think I have decent enough equipment, and have been doing this long enough to have a good idea of what I am hearing.

And this is the ticket really. One needs to acclimate to their system and small changes can be heard, we also learn how to listen to small changes.

I still need to do the reduction you have done with your equipment and then focus a little more on good clean AC from the wall. I just had a situation where I bought two used tube mono blocks, but had a hum in one channel. I was swapping speaker cables, speakers, amps from side to side, moving the tubes around. However doing all that I left the power cords in place till I decided to move some other things around. I pulled the power cables and then noticed they did not match each other. I went and looked for another heavier AC cable and tried it out again and no more hum. So if people don't think that a power cable doesn't change or improve the sound of a system as do a lot of other cabling, oh well. Let them listen to noise in their system.

 

[DaveVoorhis]

So if people don't think that a power cable doesn't change or improve the sound of a system as do a lot of other cabling, oh well. Let them listen to noise in their system.

In the test equipment world, it's well known that (for example) some models of a given manufacturer's oscilloscope are highly susceptible to interference picked up via the power line, whilst others are not. Shielded power leads, and sometimes isolated AC power, is needed with the equipment that's susceptible in an electrically noisy environment. However, in electrically quiet environments and with equipment that's not susceptible -- some equipment is internally well shielded against RFI, and some not -- it doesn't make a difference.

The same undoubtedly holds true with audio gear. If you have an electrically noisy environment and poorly internally-shielded equipment, a shielded power lead will make a difference. If you have an electrically quiet environment or well internally-shielded equipment, it won't.

Folks with the latter who try shielded leads and find they make no difference, vs folks with the former who try shielded leads and find they make a positive difference, could be all it takes to perpetuate this ongoing controversy.

 

[E-Stat]

Folks with the latter who try shielded leads and find they make no difference, vs folks with the former who try shielded leads and find they make a positive difference, could be all it takes to perpetuate this ongoing controversy.

Why then do you suppose the latter group gets their panties so in a wad over what the former group experiences?

The former group including significant recording engineers, studios, equipment manufacturers, reviewers (as I've linked to previously in this thread) along with lots of music lovers.