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Pro-ject anyone?

losthorizon

Well-Known Member
I can find very little on the AK site about Pro-ject turntables and their equipment in general, Having read online about them being of decent quality I would like to hear from owners especially regarding their tonearms.
If you have one I would like to know what your honest opinion is. Thanks.
 
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I owned a Debut III. A very good table. I bought from a dealer that checked it out and made sure all was good before I brought it home.
IMHO, buying a Pro-Ject table online is just asking for trouble.
Stand back, the horror stories should soon come.
I had great luck with a local dealer.
 
I had a Pro-ject Debut Pro for less than a week. It is their 30th Anniversary special and I was suckered in by good reviews from audio magazines (I now realize they say everything is good- they can't afford to tell the truth and loose advertising income). Anyway, it was dead on arrival with an issue with the tone arm wiring shorting out, causing it to not produce any sound.

It was way overpriced ($995) for what it was, shouldn't have cost more than $350-$400. The anti skate was a joke, being a 2 gram weight hanging off a fishing line looped through a piece of wire. The line would not stay attached to the arm, and I had to bend the wire it looped through in twenty different directions before I found a spot where It would provide any anti skate at all (higher end tables use this system too, but they are properly designed- this one was crap). The only positive was it did have nice feet and the platter was heavy, other than that it was a POS.

I sent it back and got a Rega Planar 3 instead - the Rega is a very nice table that sounds good right out of the box and tonearm actually has adjustments, unlike the Pro-jects very thin aluminum tube covered with carbon fiber that was flexible, not rigid like it should be- the whole turntable just felt CHEAP.
 
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I had a Pro-ject Debut Pro for less than a week. It is their 30th Anniversary special and I was suckered in by good reviews from audio magazines (I now realize they say everything is good- they can't afford to tell the truth and loose advertising income). Anyway, it was dead on arrival with an issue with the tone arm wiring shorting out, causing it to not produce any sound.

It was way overpriced ($995) for what it was, shouldn't have cost more than $350-$400. The anti skate was a joke, being a 2-gram weight hanging off a fishing line looped through a piece of wire. The line would not stay attached to the arm, and I had to bend the wire it looped through in twenty different directions before I found a spot where It would provide any anti-skate at all (higher-end tables use this system too, but they are properly designed- this one was crap). The only positive was it did have nice feet and the platter was heavy, other than that it was a POS.

I sent it back and got a Rega Planar 3 instead - the Rega is a very nice table that sounds good right out of the box and tonearm actually has adjustments, unlike the Pro-jects very thin aluminium tube covered with carbon fiber that was flexible, not rigid like it should be- the whole turntable just felt CHEAP.
Well, I think that has made my mind up for me, I won't bother with pro-ject.
 
If my son or daughter wanted a good entry table, I would tell them to consider the Pro-Ject.
I would also tell them to ONLY buy from a dealer that can check and make sure the table is good.
With those parameters, it is a very good table.
The problem is too many mail order companies sell these tables unchecked after being shipped and tossed around.
 
I owned a Debut Carbon for a couple of years. Upgraded from a used Technics SL-1600, also a good turntable. Never had any problems. The Debut sounded much better than the Technics. In fact that's the reason I sold the Project. I upgraded to a Mo-Fi table which was another step up from the Project.
 
Online ordering is good for many things. I drove two hours to purchase my Pro-Ject Carbon Debut from a local dealer.

Sure, I could have paid the same price at Amazon. But I wanted to buy this locally to benefit the local shop and to establish contact with someone that can service this should I have issues.

"I bought this on Amazon but can you fix/service this?" just rubs me the wrong way. At least buying it from the shop allows me to say "I bought this from you and would kike you to take a look at it."

Anyway, I recommend you check out a local shop and get their thoughts on the matter.

BTW,. I have no complaints about my Pro-Ject. Sounds great and have had no issues with it. But if I did, I wouldn't be dealing with some distant reseller.
 
No disrespect to all the Pro-ject owners out there. but I have decided I will not be purchasing any equipment from them, maybe I will save my pennies for now.
 
No disrespect to all the Pro-ject owners out there. but I have decided I will not be purchasing any equipment from them, maybe I will save my pennies for now.


Cool, one bad comment seems to have made up your mind. Your money, your decision. Us ProJect owns don't feel any disrespect :)
 
I did not note any disrespect either. I tend to give more credence to negative reviews than glowing reviews.

The gentleman's negative review in this thread was a little hyperbolic for my taste.

Do yourself a favor, if possible, and go to a dealer and talk to them. Audition as many turntables as you can. They're set up to provide this service and want to make sure you're making the best and most informed decision. You know why they want you to be happy with your purchase? They want you to come back and do. More business with them in the future

Take everything you read with a grain of salt. Do your homework and let the dealer earn your business.
 
I bought my Debut III from a local dealer. I was happy with it. I then bought a Music Hall 7.1 from him. I was happy with it. I then traded my 7.1 for a Music Hall 9.1 for not too much added money. I am happy with it. I then found out Music Hall introduced the 9.3 table. The only difference I was told was a better motor, and that I could swap out motors. I did. Bought from the dealer who contacted Roy Hall to get a motor shipped separately.
That dealer also happens to have the “million dollar Von Schweikert and VAC system set up.
Guess who has had a few chances to hear that system.
I’m all for buying audio gear from a local dealer or at the very least giving them the chance to earn your business.
That same dealer sold the Teac NT-505 that I wanted. I found a very good price online. Before buying I asked the dealer if they could meet or come close to the price. They couldn’t. I bought the online unit.
3 months later the Teac breaks. I now had to navigate Teac customer service. (They don’t have any.)
I was finally able to find a national service center willing to help me. They got it fixed.
Looking back, saving a couple hundred on a 2,000 dollar retail unit wasn’t such a great deal.
If I had bought from my dealer, he would have handled everything for me. That’s how they do things.
Lesson learned going forward.
 
Nice to see positive comments in this thread. Pro-ject sells a lot of the modern 'slab' players including many variations on that theme. Their prices are very competitive and we're all better for them being in the market. I haven't owned one but knowing this hobby I probably will at some point.
 
Nice to see positive comments in this thread. Pro-ject sells a lot of the modern 'slab' players including many variations on that theme. Their prices are very competitive and we're all better for them being in the market. I haven't owned one but knowing this hobby I probably will at some point.
I agree. The complaints you hear on motor noise are real. However, I bet if you asked those people where they bought their table, it would be online and the table shipped to them. I’m convinced there are Pro-Ject tables that are bad, but if you get your table from your local dealer, then they will make sure things are right before you take it home.
Just my additional 2 cents.
 
I really only "do" direct drive turntables, for a variety of reasons. I did puck up a nice U-turn Orbit Plus because the price was just way too low, but it feels like I'm using a toy compared to even my bottom of the line DD turntable (the infamous Audio Technica at lp120 usb). A friend has a Fluance RT85, which came with a nice cartridge, but it still feels like a toy, even compared to his other turntable, also the same Audio Technica (but a much later build, after they fixed the problems).

I see the Pro-Ject as more in line with the Fluance. Nice enough, but my anti-belt-drive bias colors my opinion.

Disclaimer: I stopped selling hi-fi when the general consensus in the hi-fi community was the DD was the epitome of good turntables, esoteric's* notwithstanding. So my bias has a source...

*all bets are off when you get into the "stupid money" category. ;)
 
I own a Proj-Ject Debut Carbon DC and have had it for about 4 years. It's a very good turntable and I can't really imagine getting objectively better sound quality for the same or less money. Now, I'm not sayin it is mind-blowing, but I paid less than $400 for it with the Ortofon 2M red cartridge, a cork mat, 45 adapter, and the original cables (previous owner threw in the 45 adapter and cork mat, neither of which are "name brand"). The biggest fault I have found with it is that it picks up footfalls and other transferrable vibrations. But this will be the case for pretty much every 'table of even somewhat similar design. Even my Technics 1200 picks up footfalls to some extent. The solution there is to build or otherwise acquire a wall-mount shelf (which is an absolute necessity if you are going to use a suspended table like a Thorens, Dual, Gerrard or Philips).

I find the Pro-Ject to be an excellent reference for a good quality table that doesn't break the bank. Comparable in sound to the Rega of similar design that my dad owns, and superior to the U-turn tables that I have messed with from time to time. The sound is more balanced than with the U-turn, which also has a tendency to sound a bit... ehh... we'll say "elementary". Lacking detail, some odd peaks and valleys... Hard to describe other than to say that the U-turn is probably decent value for the sub $300 new market but isn't for someone who is going to listen intently much of the time.

My experience with the Rega is that it's at the other end of the spectrum. Very refined sound... so refined that it's almost subdued. To get a little more life out of it I had to switch the cartridge to something with a little more attack. I also had to get several replacement belts for the rega because I found them to be of inconsistent quality causing pitch variations. Once I got it right, it was a very pleasing turntable and my dad still has it and enjoys it (although he lusts after my Thorens and Technics, and insists that my Pro-Ject sounds better than his rega, but his hearing is terrible and he has no basis for comparison since he hasn't heard them in even REMOTELY the same system).

I prefer my Pro-Ject to the others because it sounded more lively and musical right out of the box, and the aesthetics are preferable to the Rega (albeit by a small margin... I mean they are almost identical with the exception of the location of the power switch). The Pro-ject has kept time properly since the beginning without needing a new belt. It also seems to have every bit as much detail as the Rega, but the sound is more engaging and I find myself more likely to listen to another record. I have tried a couple different cartridges on both the Pro-Ject and the Rega. Interestingly, the Pro-Ject sounds better with the 2M Blue, while the Rega sounds a bit harsh with the 2M Blue... I actually prefer the Red on the Rega. I had a somewhat similar result with the At VM540ML on each table - the increase in detail wasn't all good on the Rega (some harshness crept in), although in the end the VM540ML is better than the Red, on the Rega. It was a wash on the Pro-Ject between the 540 and 2M Blue. Each had strengths and I liked them both for different reasons.

With regards to the anti-skate system... I haven't had any issues with mine. It's very similar and a LOT less fiddly than the not-user-friendly version of anti-skate on my Thorens TD-165. Is it as simple as on my Technics? No. but that's an apples/oranges thing (and unless you have tens of thousands of dollars in testing equipment, you don't ACTUALLY know how much anti-skate force is actually being applied by ANY system... you'd have to measure friction coefficients within the tonearm bearings, between the contact points of whatever anti skate system is employed, or have some method of isolating and measuring the lateral force imparted on a tonearm, and do so in such a way that the measurement itself doesn't impart any force of its own.... which is all just to say the best way to set it is with play testing). I can't imagine someone who is capable of setting up a variety of cartridges on fixed headshells, which can be a pain in the.... would ever have any meaningful issues setting up the Pro-Ject anti-skate weight. Worst case, one might need to replace the monofilament line attached to the weight, or retie the loop that goes over the tonearm stub.
But then again, people say that iPhones are easy to use and they are a mystery to me, so I guess everyone has their strength and weakness.

As with anything else, there are a million confounding factors, like cabling, amp/preamp pairing, mounting (as noted above... and this is really the single best upgrade I can recommend, especially since it will be useful for all future upgraded 'tables) and of course the cartridge used and setup thereof.

Anyway, my own experience with my Debut Carbon DC doesn't match the horror stories that I see so often about Pro-Ject tables, and the "infamous motor noise" isn't something I have ever experienced even slightly. I can only guess that Pro-Ject had...? has...? some QC issues with production, but my experience has been great. Honestly, I have very little use for my Pro-Ject turntable given the variety of other great, and sentimentally significant turntables that I own. However, I have never been tempted to sell it because it's a very solid performer, has a great look, and for the money, I think it's a great value.
 
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Cool, one bad comment seems to have made up your mind. Your money, your decision. Us ProJect owns don't feel any disrespect :)
I'm sort of with you on that, but I always have to ask the question: Was it the one bad comment, or was the bad comment just the "final straw"?

I have to confess that whenever I buy ANYTHING off online sites, (e.g. Amazon), I look at the bad reviews first. After a while you can get a feel for when they matter and when they don't. Heavy detail from someone that obviously knows what they are talking about can negate a TON of five star reviews that say something like, "Just got it. Can't wait to set it up", etc.

I once gave a three paragraph review on why an LED headlight replacement bulb was terrible, but I explained what was good about it. They paid me to remove it. In a nutshell, I said it was bright, but turned my highly focused high beams into flood lights.

I think no perfect product exists, so there are always negative reviews. But when someone articulates WHY they give a negative review, it really helps. Sometimes their "issue" is something I could not care less about, so I buy and am happy. Other times, they nail a critical feature I need. Then I avoid.
 
I agree. The complaints you hear on motor noise are real. However, I bet if you asked those people where they bought their table, it would be online and the table shipped to them. I’m convinced there are Pro-Ject tables that are bad, but if you get your table from your local dealer, then they will make sure things are right before you take it home.
Just my additional 2 cents.
Generally speaking, I think a lot of stuff available from China these days is cheap because they go for a solid design that should fail rarely and avoid an expensive QA check. Which means you have a "fairly high" rate of defects, but most of them are fine. I got a cheap Pyle amplifier about a year ago and it sounded great but the display was dead. No problem. They sent me a new one and I sent the old one back. And it was really easy. The new one works great.

But if the Pro-Jects are this hit and miss with "mail order" units, that's a problem with the design and/or packaging. I've seen it in Guitars as well. When I sold turntables back in the 70's. they VERY RARELY came back, and the only setup we did was installing a cartridge on the headshell, if we even did that.
 
I own a Proj-Ject Debut Carbon DC and have had it for about 4 years. It's a very good turntable. It's not mind-blowing, but I paid less than $400 for it with the Ortofon 2M red cartridge, a cork mat, 45 adapter, and the original cables. The biggest fault I have found with it is that it picks up footfalls and other transferrable vibrations. This will be the case for pretty much every 'table of even somewhat similar design. Even my Technics 1200 picks up footfalls to some extent. The solution there is to build or otherwise acquire a wall-mount shelf (which is an absolute necessity if you are going to use a suspended table like a Thorens, Dual, Gerrard or Philips).

I find the Pro-Ject to be an excellent reference for a good quality table that doesnt break the bank. Comparable in sound to the Rega of similar design that my dad owns, and superior to the U-turn tables that I have messed with from time to time. The sound is more balanced than with the U-turn, which also has a tendency to sound a bit... ehh... we'll say "elementary". Lacking detail, some odd peaks and valleys... Hard to describe other than to say that the U-turn is probably decent value for the sub $300 market but isn't for someone who is going to listen intently much of the time.

My experience with the Rega is that it's at the other end of the spectrum. Very refined sound... so refined that it's almost subdued. To get a little more life out of it I had to switch the cartridge to something with a little more attack. I also had to get several replacement belts for the rega because I found them to be of inconsistent quality causing pitch variations. Once I got it right, it was a very pleasing turntable to listen to.

I prefer my Pro-Ject to the others because it sounded more lively and musical right out of the box, and the aesthetics are preferable to the Rega (by a small margin... I mean they are almost identical with the exception of the location of the power switch). The Pro-ject has kept time properly since the beginning without needing a new belt. It also seems to have every bit as much detail as the Rega, but the sound is more engaging and I find myself more likely to listen to another record. I have tried a couple different cartridges on both the Pro-Ject and the Rega. Interestingly, the Pro-Ject sounds better with the 2M Blue, while the Rega sounds a bit harsh with the 2M Blue... I actually prefer the Red on the Rega. I had a somewhat similar result with the At VM540ML on each table, although in the end, I would certainly prefer the 540 on the Rega vs the 2M Red. It was a wash on the Pro-Ject between the 540 and 2M Blue. Each had strengths and I liked the both for different reasons.

With regards to the anti-skate system... I haven't had any issues with mine. It's very similar and a LOT less fiddly than the not-user-friendly version of anti-skate on my Thorens TD-165. Is it as simple as on my Technics? No. but that's an apples/oranges thing (and unless you have tens of thousands of dollars in testing equipment, you don't ACTUALLY know how much anti-skate force is actually being applied by ANY system... you'd have to measure friction coefficients within the tonearm bearings, between the contact points of whatever anti skate system is employed, or have some method of isolating and measuring the lateral force imparted on a tonearm, and do so in such a way that the measurement itself doesn't impart any force of its own.... which is all just to say the best way to set it is with play testing). I can't imagine someone who is capable of setting up a variety of cartridges on fixed headshells would ever have any meaningful issues setting up the Pro-Ject anti-skate weight. Worst case, one might need to replace the monofilament line attached to the weight, or retie the loop that goes over the tonearm stub.
But then again, people say that iPhones are easy to use and they are a mystery to me, so I guess everyone has their strength and weakness.

As with anything else, there are a million confounding factors, like cabling, amp/preamp pairing, mounting (as noted above... and this is really the single best upgrade I can recommend, especially since it will be useful for all future upgraded 'tables) and of course the cartridge used.

Anyway, my own experience with my Debut Carbon DC doesn't match the horror stories that I see so often about Pro-Ject tables. I can only guess that they had...? have...? some QC issues with production, but my experience has been great. I have little use for my Pro-Ject given the variety of other great, and sentimentally significant turntables that I own, but I have never been tempted to sell it because it's a very solid performer and has a great look.
That was a great post. I know, because even though it was long it kept my interest to the end. :)

BTW, I'm keeping the u-Turn for the same reason. One side issue: I have four Turntables and six or seven cartridges and one 78 stylus. I have some fairly high end stuff (e.g. ADC ZLM and Audio technica AT15SA) as well as lower quality stuff (A couple of stantons that I got at Guitar center, in headhells, for $50 for the pair) To me, they pretty much all sound the same (except the stantons:D). And that last sentence explains why I rarely get into threads about cartridges. I have nothing to offer. I also wear hearing aids.

The one difference that I CAN here is noise introduced by the turntable. And, again, all of my TT's are dead quiet, for all intents and purposes, except the internal pre-amp on the U-Turn does introduce a slight amount of hum. I'll get to it when I have the time.

One thing I REALLY hate is turntables that require you to change belt pulleys to change the speed. That is just lame. Even my old Technics SL-23 back in 1975 had a speed switch AND pitch controls. I needed that because I practiced my trombone to "music minus one" records. It's a lot easier to tune the record to the Trombone than the other way around.
 
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Cool, one bad comment seems to have made up your mind. Your money, your decision. Us ProJect owns don't feel any disrespect :)
Oh please don't think I came to that decision after one bad comment, I have built several custom turntables using Rega parts and I also have Turntables by Thoren, Kenwood, Toshiba, Pioneer and others but I had intended to use some of my leftover parts to build something using a Pro-ject Debut arm but after consideration, it would be better for me to use an RB300 that I have instead as I feel that arm is of better quality, I know very little about Pro-ject equipment and so was asking for comments. Sorry if I offended anyone.
 
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