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Pro-ject anyone?

Any turntable that doesn't have all the features one wants isn't necessarily bad, it's just not the right one for you. One size does not fit all. Speed change and/or pitch control just weren't features I needed or cared about. More important to me? Quality tone arm, effective isolation, and unique innovative features not found on other turntables in my price range. Features that I could use or were beneficial? A 10" tonearm with VTA so I could use any cartridge stylus configuration with minimal tracking error. Custom designed feet for better isolation. And a Delrin platter for better damping than metal or glass platters. But ultimately how does the turntable sound to you and how well does it integrate within your system and your budget? If you're happy with that, then you have the right turntable.
 
losthorizon said:
I can find very little on the AK site about Pro-ject turntables and their equipment in general, Having read online about them being of decent quality I would like to hear from owners especially regarding their tonearms.
If you have one I would like to know what your honest opinion is. Thanks.
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Being a former Pro-ject table owner, I'll share my experiences.

Not a ton of stuff on AK about Pro-ject tables because the focus here tends to be more on vintage tables, or stuff higher up the food chain than a Pro-ject debut as far as modern gear is concerned (i.e - VPI models, Rega P3 or higher, etc.).

Since the Debut was my first real turntable, it was a quantum leap forward in sound-quality compared to what I had before (an Ion USB TT - which was not so great), and as a result I became sold on the vinyl format. Unfortunately, mine developed the infamous motor humming issues they're known for, and I didn't like having to manually swap the drive belt between the two pulleys to change the playback speed (even if I don't play a lot of 45 RPM records, it was still annoying to deal with it). I looked into the speedbox at one point, but due to lack of availability at the time, I ultimately decided to look into other tables.

I was fortunate enough to come across a couple of nice vintage tables locally for non-insane prices (A Thorens TD-160 and a Pioneer PL-550) and the Debut was simply no match for them, be it build quality, sonics, or user-friendliness. But to be fair, those two tables would be significantly more expensive than a Pro-Ject debut if they were manufactured and sold today (look up the original MSRPs and then use an inflation calculator to get an idea...). And Pro-Ject also has a number of models that are above the Debut line.

If you can get one without the QC issues (hum), the Debut is good for what it is, and has it's place in the market (i.e - those who don't want to deal with vintage/would rather go new, are on a budget, and want something they can find easily instead of depending on what's available secondhand). Just bear in mind that many of us here on AK are pretty seriously into vinyl, and/or possess some basic electronic work skills, so there are many here who have moved on to better tables, and/or can fix vintage to get the most out of it. So that may create the impression that the Debut is frowned upon here by some - but one could certainly do much worse.
 
I just sold a U-Turn Orbit Special Walnut recently and miss it a ton already. I own or have owned Thorens, Marantz/Clearaudio, Technics, Pioneer, Rega, plus others, and the U-Turn was one of my favorites of all of them, partly because of the wonderful story that is the company. The owners still, several years later, respond to emails that come in. Their pricing and direct customer service are unmatched in the industry IMO.

Their turntable is also absolutely fantastic IMO for what it is, which is intended to be an inexpensive machine that anyone can buy and that will make beautiful music. It can feel 'lightweight' in hand and in use, for sure, and it's probably not a good turntable for the frequent cartridge swapper. It's a turntable that looks great but requires finesse in handling. I think though that the argument that the Orbit is lesser, where it counts, which is in the music-making aspect, is something I disagree with. I had some nice cartridges on mine and it never let me down.

I'll stop there because this is a thread about Project, but wanted to note some love for U-Turn.


RobRoy said:
That was a great post. I know, because even though it was long it kept my interest to the end. :)

BTW, I'm keeping the u-Turn for the same reason.
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I have an Xtension 10 and have no desire to upgrade. It’s relatively pricey at $5k without cartridge, rather mundane looking, but it weighs a ton and is dead silent.
 
It all
DavidTT said:
I just sold a U-Turn Orbit Special Walnut recently and miss it a ton already. I own or have owned Thorens, Marantz/Clearaudio, Technics, Pioneer, Rega, plus others, and the U-Turn was one of my favorites of all of them, partly because of the wonderful story that is the company. The owners still, several years later, respond to emails that come in. Their pricing and direct customer service are unmatched in the industry IMO.

Their turntable is also absolutely fantastic IMO for what it is, which is intended to be an inexpensive machine that anyone can buy and that will make beautiful music. It can feel 'lightweight' in hand and in use, for sure, and it's probably not a good turntable for the frequent cartridge swapper. It's a turntable that looks great but requires finesse in handling. I think though that the argument that the Orbit is lesser, where it counts, which is in the music-making aspect, is something I disagree with. I had some nice cartridges on mine and it never let me down.

I'll stop there because this is a thread about Project, but wanted to note some love for U-Turn.
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What you said makes total sense. BTW, I'm a nut on removable headshells. If I'm buying a TT new, it's a required feature. It's one reason I recommended the Fluance to my friend. And yes, the finesse in handling is a real thing. When I first started using it, I kept knocking the belt off the platter when I picked a record off the platter. And it was a real pain to get it back on. I see this one as a TT that will never have another cartridge on it (The Ortofon OM5E is fine), and will only play 33's, so no need to shift the belt. And the at lp120 is the one that plays 78's and 45's, while the other TT's share 33's with the Orbit.

I did not know the company story. It matters. :)

But yeah, that's my final word on it too, other than to get back on topic: I see the Pro-Ject as basically a higher quality (and more expensive) version of the Orbit. They are all very pretty, especially in contrast to my vintage - and vintage looking - turntables.. It's one thing I like about both.
 
losthorizon said:
I can find very little on the AK site about Pro-ject turntables and their equipment in general, Having read online about them being of decent quality I would like to hear from owners especially regarding their tonearms.
If you have one I would like to know what your honest opinion is. Thanks.
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Well, AK is a wonderful place that is largely driven by vintage gear appreciation and keeping it chugging along ; ) I have a Pro-Ject Debut Evo (long story, involving a credit with an audio dealer...). Anyway, I was going to sell it...not because of any problems, but simply because I didn't need it: plenty of solid sounding turntables already...you know the disease/disorder? However, the Austrian designed (Czech Republic built, I think) Pro-Ject seemed kind of interesting, and it does have a pretty cool upgrade path. So I took the plunge and opened the box. Long story short: been using it for nearly a year, and I flat love the sound. I won't get into modern brand comparisons. Motor noise has not been an issue: dead quiet on this one. Arm and platter bearings are superb, especially for the $$.
I use a Q-Up to raise the arm...BTW there is a nice YouTube video that shows how nicely the Q-Up lift fits the Evo without the little stand that is needed for most 'tables.
 
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I got a debut carbon cheap at Goodwill. It needed a stylus, cartridge alignment and an anti-skate weight. It worked fine but I hated the tonearm. The tonearm lift handle is just too damn small. I traded it to a record store for 5x my investment in store credit. The same Goodwill has a Newmark belt drive w/GT cartridge needing stylus for 2x what I paid for the Project. Not surprisingly it's been there over a week. I drop in on senior day and find a few real deals a year.
 
Countless threads/posts re Project turntables on AK, majority I'v seen not flattering. Apparently more money budgeted for advertising than what goes into the actual turntables they design/build. For starters look for tables that say "made in Japan".
 
I have a Pro-ject Debut Carbon Esprit SB, which I've been happy with. No issues with motor hum or QC, knock on wood. But seems to make me in the minority here.

I'm in a neighborhood LP club with a handful of neighbor guys that meets monthly, plus or minus-- we all bring one LP and play one side of it. Everyone always wants to come to my house to listen to my system for our meets, because they like how it sounds best. So, there's that. *shrug*
 
not entry level but my friend has the extension 10 and it is a great tt. his system is more advanced than most with a prima luna tube integrated that takes KT150 tubes, has the pro-ject tt, sumiko pearwood mc cart, manley labs chinook phono pre, volent monitors ($6k), and a marantz cd/sacd player.

the main bearing of the tt uses opposing magnets to reduce the load on the bearing.
 
I'm not a fan of their entry level decks, their upper lines are built better but at over 2000€ there are many choices, new or used. One thing I don't like about them is they don't give the option to buy their tables without an arm, they have their own factory and it's easy either releasing a deck with a universal arm board (like Dr. Feickert) or manufacture armboards for some popular and not so popular tonearms.

I also expect more originality from them, they were never good at this but at least 15 years ago their decks looked better, now all their nice decks are bulky without a reason IMO. I was surprised to see they just released a clone of Micro Seiki's 1000 without giving credit to them.


My favorite Pro-ject is the discontinued RPM 6.1SB, I wish they still had it in their line but I'm sure it would cost double than 700€ it cost 15 years ago. I'd like to see that with the option like Kuzma's Stabi SD so it can take 10" & 12" arms.

 
I have an early Pro-Ject 1.2 turntable. I bought it cheap as new old stock. It came in the original packaging, but had it's cartridge missing. Not a problem for me. It seems that it was raided for a customer and then left in the storerrom for a few years.
I found that it was O.K.
Being a person that messes with stuff, I proceeded to 'improve' it. The steel platter was heavy, but rang like a bell so that was filled with rubber and balanced on an industrial shaft balancing machine at work. The main bearing was stripped and re-oiled. The motor pulley and belt was changed for an upgraded version and the motor mounting was improved. The supplied arm was checked and adjusted for height, azithmus and bearing torque and the anti-skating weight was adjusted and checked for the correct pull.. It runs at an accurate constant speed.

The end result is that it sounds better than when I bought it. Quite a lot of turntable for not much money.
There was nothing intrinsically wrong with it, but a bitt of care and adjustment improved it no end.
I guess that with the original price, the manufacturer hasn't got time to fine tune these things anyway.
 
I am a confirmed vintage Japanese turntable Junkie, especially a Sansui SR-838 that I originally figured wouldn't be as nice as an SL-1200 (I was wrong). Anyway, I have seen some odd Pro-Ject hate with comments like "The anti-skate is a small weight on the end of some fishing line! What junk!." Well, actually, that is a good way to do it...many venerable Japanese turntables had that system (my SR-838, for example). Anyway, the Debut Carbon EVO seems very well made, and has an actual upgrade path (meaning that Pro-Ject makes interesting add-ons..some of which are probably better than others...Audio Advice actually has a solid overview of those on YouTube).
I was a little put off at first because the physical size of the table is maybe 1/3 smaller than my vintage stuff. It also took a few days to "Bloom".... just guessing that is probably the stylus working in, but it definitely sounded MUCH better after a couple of evenings, and it sounded quite nice to start with. In this country, they are sold with the Sumiko Ranier (another easy upgrade path, because the same Cartridge body is used for the Olympia, Moonstone and the new Wellfleet). What knocked me out was how great the Ranier sounds with this turntable.
Anyway, I am hearing great things.

As an interesting sidebar, What-HiFi? has a fairly recent article (2021) comparing the Rega Planar 2 with the EVO. In England, the Regas are a substantially less expensive than they are in the US. At the time of this post, the Rega Planar 2 has a US MAP of $775, while the EVO is $599. In the article, the Rega wins the "Sound Quality" section by a subjective whisker (I know, I know: WH-F is British, and Rega is the Home Team, etc....but it is a well written and informative article). You also might want to consider the factory upgrades available to the EVO before you hit the Rega's price point. Here's the link:

https://www.whathifi.com/us/advice/...but-carbon-evo-which-turntable-should-you-buy

Something I almost forgot: The EVO has RCA outputs and includes a nice pair of phono cables (with ground, of course). I think the Rega still has attached cables? That would actually be a factor for me.

Also, both turntables require shims to adjust VTA. Azimuth is adjustable on the EVO (with a supplied allen wrench). I am not sure about the Rega? Someone here will know ; )
 
IMO, the minimum acceptable Rega table is the Planar 3, the 1 and 2 are overpriced for what you get. That being said, the Rega 2 has a much better tonearm than the Evo... my Debut Pro had that carbon arm and IMO it was cheap (counter weight would not stay in place), flexible, and I could not use the tiny arm to lift/lower it. I'm much happier with my Planar 3.
 
Point taken, and since you have had both, and know Turntables and esp. Regas, I trust and value your opinion. Still, I really like the sound of the EVO, especially at $599...but now I have to start saving for an RP-3 ; ) :rflmao:
On mine, the counterweight seems good and tight (but glad you mentioned it so I could check.)
Another very nice thing about Regas: they definitely seem to hold their value!
BTW How is the quality of the RP-3 cable? (I still have an RB-300 lying around that needs to be rewired)
 
Rega stuff is getting pretty pricey here in the U.S., I'm glad mine came with the Exact cartridge upgrade for free. the cable is a pretty nice low capacitance one with gold plated Neutrik rca connects. The best part of the P3 is the RB 330 tonearm (used on P3 and P6) I have a couple of LPs that have wild warps (1/2" to 3/4" above flat) and they will play without issue with this arm. I've tried them on my old Marantz 6200 (CEC made) and they throw the arm off the record.
 
Wayben said:
I have had a Carbon Debut EVO for about a year. It does everything a TT needs to do on a daily basis, without fail.
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Been enjoying mine for about 5 months, came with the factory installed Sumiko Rainier cartridge. Sounds great! Bought from Crutchfield, well - packed, easy to set up.

(bought my first ttbl in 1982 which is a Technics SL-7, and my second in 2010 which is a Technics 1200 mk II. Wanted to try a belt drive, and I kinda dig it ....)

There are plenty of affordable decks that get good reviews, and if you are ok with a Chinese Hanpin unit, go for it and spin records!!!!
 
charlesdanie said:
Pro-ject turntables are generally well-regarded for their quality and value, especially at entry to mid-level price points. Many owners appreciate their build quality and sound performance, particularly the tonearms, which often feature good rigidity and effective design for reducing resonance. Users frequently mention that the tonearms are easy to set up and adjust, allowing for a decent level of customization. Some models come with upgrades available, which can enhance performance even further. Overall, if you're considering a Pro-ject turntable, you’re likely to find that many owners are quite satisfied with their purchase, especially for the price.
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I feel you made the right choice by returning it for a REGA.
 
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