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Proper way to use thermal paste , transistors/heat sink .

bob412

Active Member
I'm replacing all the output transistors on an Altec 704 receiver . When replacing transistors do you place thermal paste on the back of the transistor , on both sides of the clear wafer and then mount to the heat sink ? If this is not the correct method chime in . My neighbor said it doesn't need no paste because it has the wafer , just put the wafer between the transistor and heat sink and tighten . His advice doesn't sound correct . First time replacing transistors on this amp , feedback appreciated . Thanks
 

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You'll find lots of threads here on this topic. I smear small amounts of paste on the tranny and both sides of the washer. When I have everything in place, I wiggle everything around a little to make sure there is an even distribution. The washer is there just to insulate. The paste is there to fill any little air gaps due to surface irregularities, thus assuring optimal heat transfer away from the tranny.
 
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But "some" should be used. I've gone to using the new Berquist thermal pads, on both TO-3's and TO-220's. You can buy one foot squares of the Berquist 400 thermal pads and cut your own. VERY GOOD stuff.
 
thin layer each side of mica insulator ..stick to heat-sink ..place transistor in place and attach firmly making sure any insulating washers are in place .
 
^^^

Yes.

And as others have eluded to, a little goes a long way. If there is a bunch oozing out between the mica and heat sink, and or between the transistor and the mica, there's too much.

A proper amount will leave just a small line of compound extruded at the periphery of the mating surfaces.

As well, the parts need to be torqued properly. As tight as you think you can get the small screw without damage is almost certainly too tight. Too tight can/will warp the part resulting in less contact for heat transfer.
 
Grease the mica insulator on both sides. That's it.

Slightly less messy if you grease the transistor, then apply the mica insulator, then grease the exposed side of the insulator.

I investigated the Bergquist pads. While they are nice, not messy, etc. they simply do not yet have quite the thermal performance of mica insulators and thermal grease.
 
Actually, the best thermal pads easily outperform mica and grease, so says no less an authority than On-Semi. And unlike mica, which has huge variances in thicknesses, a Bergquist pad will give consistent results.

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showpost.php?p=8383541&postcount=13

And I fail to see how anything could be less messier than coating the mica only. Hell, at the Motorola bipolar transistor fab, they even required that we do it that way on equipment we worked on.
 
Kapton tape.. stuck to the device,
a wee smear on white goo on the touch the heatsink surface :-)
 
While everyone is perusing the ON Semi site notice that the torque specs are listed as well, 6 in/oz for TO-3 and TO-220. As far as the mica/goop goes this is what I do, spread a thin even coat on the transistor then press the mica over this thin coat, remove the mica and turn it over and reinstall on the transistor. Now you have two thin coats on each side.

Craig
 
Thermal pads are supposed to be single-use, and not applied and re-applied. Thus, mica is the only option for tinkering.

You do not smear the grease, you put a small blob in the middle of each side of the mica sheet, then press it against the heatsink - once - so that it sticks (and never move it after this), then put the transistor on and tighten the screw. This will cause optimal grease flow and the best surfaces possible.

Smearing causes air pockets, adds dust and dirt and other suboptimal surfaces.
 
Thermal pads are supposed to be single-use, and not applied and re-applied. Thus, mica is the only option for tinkering.

You do not smear the grease, you put a small blob in the middle of each side of the mica sheet, then press it against the heatsink - once - so that it sticks (and never move it after this), then put the transistor on and tighten the screw. This will cause optimal grease flow and the best surfaces possible.

Smearing causes air pockets, adds dust and dirt and other suboptimal surfaces.

You beat me to it. I agree. And I have been the power expert for decades, not necessarily only in audio either.

You get a feel for how much to put on. Where to put it ?

On a TO-220 you put it right by the hole. You just barely finger tighten it and then press down with your thumb or whatever and let it ooze out the sides. It should only ooze a little bit but it is important to apply that pressure. If too much comes out, use less next time. But better it be out there than in between the heat sink and the part that needs it.

On a TO-3 it goes almost between the pins but on the bigger side, close to the pins as possible. Yes it squeezes through the holes, so what ? Actualy that means put a ittle bit more on to compensate. Again, you get a feel for it.

Incidentally I got a couple of things to say. Alot of times I have run out of things and had to make due. Those gray rubber insulators can be reused, but I wouldn't try it too many times.

Another thing is to INSPECT the mica insulator for internal delineation. That means the layers separating inside. If that happens the thermal compound is almost useless. Now the tricky part is that in many cases all those layers together make for like 2,000 volts insulation. There are lower rated ones that are thinner, you almost never need 2,000 volts in audio. That was for horizontal (line for those across the pond) or high voltage output transistors in TVs.

If you do find one with the layers separating you can separate it and only use part of it. But make sure you can use at least half of it...

And if you ever accidentally bend it and it makes like a crack in it, you are done.You need a new one because that separates ALL the layers and there is no way to make it right.

That is one of the reasons I do not recommend re "gooping" transistors when they do not need to be replaced. That cement the stuff turns into does not depend on moisture to conduct heat. Leave it alone. Seriously, you are not doing any good at all and run the risk of cracking the insulator.

I'll be hitting four decades in the business soon, so if anyone wants to disagree with me, state your case. Do not try to tell me what Thermalloy or anyone else said, because they sold nice TO-3 insulators with the compound already on them. A useless concept in my professional opinion. What's more they sold them in paper packaging which could bend and cause splittig, and you would not be able to see it without taking the compound off of it. Defeats the WHOLE purpose.

I am qualified to criticise them.
 
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Thermal pads are supposed to be single-use, and not applied and re-applied. Thus, mica is the only option for tinkering.

Not sure if that's a reference to my mention of "tinkering". If so, rack it up to a suboptimal choice of words. Tinkering in that regard was intended to mean repairing and mild reconditioning an old amp in my spare time. It was not intended to mean repeated R&I of transistors for some sort of ongoing experiment.
 
You beat me to it. I agree. And I have been the power expert for decades, not necessarily only in audio either.

You get a feel for how much to put on. Where to put it ?

On a TO-220 you put it right by the hole. You just barely finger tighten it and then press down with your thumb or whatever and let it ooze out the sides. It should only ooze a little bit but it is important to apply that pressure. If too much comes out, use less next time. But better it be out there than in between the heat sink and the part that needs it.

On a TO-3 it goes almost between the pins but on the bigger side, close to the pins as possible. Yes it squeezes through the holes, so what ? Actualy that means put a ittle bit more on to compensate. Again, you get a feel for it.

Incidentally I got a couple of things to say. Alot of times I have run out of things and had to make due. Those gray rubber insulators can be reused, but I wouldn't try it too many times.

Another thing is to INSPECT the mica insulator for internal delineation. That means the layers separating inside. If that happens the thermal compound is almost useless. Now the tricky part is that in many cases all those layers together make for like 2,000 volts insulation. There are lower rated ones that are thinner, you almost never need 2,000 volts in audio. That was for horizontal (line for those across the pond) or high voltage output transistors in TVs.

If you do find one with the layers separating you can separate it and only use part of it. But make sure you can use at least half of it...

And if you ever accidentally bend it and it makes like a crack in it, you are done.You need a new one because that separates ALL the layers and there is no way to make it right.

That is one of the reasons I do not recommend re "gooping" transistors when they do not need to be replaced. That cement the stuff turns into does not depend on moisture to conduct heat. Leave it alone. Seriously, you are not doing any good at all and run the risk of cracking the insulator.

I'll be hitting four decades in the business soon, so if anyone wants to disagree with me, state your case. Do not try to tell me what Thermalloy or anyone else said, because they sold nice TO-3 insulators with the compound already on them. A useless concept in my professional opinion. What's more they sold them in paper packaging which could bend and cause splittig, and you would not be able to see it without taking the compound off of it. Defeats the WHOLE purpose.

I am qualified to criticise them.


so no cleaning and re greasing old transistors - good to know

what is in the grease that is the thermal conductor ?
 
Zinc oxide.
zinc-oxide-on-nose_thumb.jpg
 
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