Pulled the trigger- Sony SCD-777ES on the way

[goldear]

I read that Sony has stopped making some of the those parts you mentioned in a earlier post. As for Hybrid SACD discs issues, I read that it's a software problem. Sony does all the upgrades and repairs for a flat fee of $250 if you ship the unit to them. My biggest issue with shipping these is cosmetic damages like nicks and dings. These players are HEAVY so shipping is a problem. Both my units are in PERFECT shape without playback issues, yet. It's too bad no one but Sony can fix these beauties.

I'm not in the business anymore, but when I last checked (more than a year ago), it was still possible to get most of these parts. Some part numbers had changed the last time that I had ordered replacements though. I have not had any reason to check recently though, so the situation might have changed since then.

FWIW: I never personally encountered any firmware issues on these two players (although that was definitely was a problem on the sony 9000es). And I was able to fix every broken SDC-1/777 that I ever came across, so the knowledge of how to fix these players is not exclusive to Sony.

But I most definitely agree that Sony is your best option for fixing a stock player.

 

[M Jarve]

Well, it's here. I'm going to have to let it acclimate for a couple hours before actually hooking it up and powering it up (it's a balmy 0ºF outside).

I took the cover off, both to see what it looks like up-close and personal, and to help it warm up more quickly. The previous owner, it looks like, performed some mods of his own. All the power and audio connections have had their connectors cut off and soldered directly to the board (sort of... the boards still have there receptacles, the wire soldered to the leads). Some of it looks pro- properly heat-shrunk and neat, while other bits look amateur- electrical tape and frayed ends. I think, eventually, I'll clean up the less-well done stuff, but I'm going to leave it be for now.

I would like to note as well that pictures do not do this thing justice in the size department- It's by far the biggest thing I've put into this rack, including power amps. While not the heaviest component I've slotted in yet, it's easily among the top 3, and it's certainly the bulkiest, and that's including big amps. Going back to the immense size, it reminded me of my need for a new, or at least different equipment rack. Because of it's depth, I have to have it proud of the front of the shelf by a good inch, and even then the left-channel cable and power cable will be bent to an uncomfortable degree. It's about as deep as it is wide. The unusually deep MF preamp first alerted me to this situation, but its worse with the SCD-777ES. I'll have to get Boy Wonder on that soon, I think.

Aside from that, the remote, like the one for my previous CDP, has a thin veneer of real metal over the top. At least the Sony unit does not have lead weights in it.

The original feet for this unit were removed at some point in the past, so the previous owner included a set of discs to place under the unit. Although not OEM by any means, they are pretty high quality, apparently oil or gel filled rubber with a thick metal band about it.

So, there it sits, waiting until it's warmed up (which should be helped by the fact that it has one of my room heaters -er -h/k 775's on the shelf under it). Thoughts on sound and the like will be forthcoming.

 

[M Jarve]

I gave it a couple hours to warm up and stuck one of my MSO hybrid SACD/CDDA's in. No dice. Reads the CD layer fine, no SACD love. I have an email in to the seller, as the picture (seen above) does show it with a SACD in it (reading it, apparently), but if it's the disc I think it is, it's not a hybrid SACD.

It does read regular CD's just fine however, even my most heavily soiled and abused CD-R's. Load times are a bit on the slow side, but not as bad as some players I've owned. My first SACD player (also a Sony) took long enough that I could nuke a cup of coffee, add cream and sugar, and be back in my chair just as it finished loading. And it can't even begin to compete with the positively glacial speed at which my Blue Ray player initializes BRD's.

Sound with Redbook CD's is much better than I had hoped or expected, based on the above comments. I would put it as definite upgrade over the old 640c, and among the best single-box units I've heard, with maybe the Marantz SA-1 having edged it out. My one exception to the overall sound is the slight edginess given to certain types of high-frequencies, though it could just as easily be flatter response up in the 16k-20k range. I guess I'm more used to the slightly softer sound of the Cambridge deck. Bass is tighter and possesses "slam" that I didn't realize the Cambridge was lacking. Vocal ranges, especially female vocals (Julee Cruise, Björk, etc) are much more "analog" sounding, having a delightful sense of air and liveness. Imaging is also exceptional. This is an area where I thought that the 640c could not really be improved upon, and, essentially, I was correct, but I would give the Sony the edge in this- while perceived depth is about the same, the soundstage is a little wider with a better sense of space. Additionally, quieter passages are "blacker", with the ability to really reveal very quiet and low-level detail. Again, this was all stuff that the Cambridge was good at, but the Sony does improve upon it.

I've not really begun to critically examine the various filter settings, but based on the little I have, I would have to say that so far, my preferences lean towards either the "STD" setting or "1" setting. I don't really know what the filters are changing (I have yet to crack open the manual), but the STD setting seems to be well balanced between exposing detail and giving a sense of "air", where as the "1" setting seems to give up a smidgeon of detail in exchange for a greater sense of "air". The other settings seem to progressively make the sound both softer and more ethereal to the point where "4" imparts a slightly exaggerated stereotypical "tube" sound, with a benign, but noticeable lack of focus, but wide and lush "back row" presentation.

And, there you have it- the first 30 minuets summed up. I hope that the issue reading my MSO hybrid discs is simply a compatibility problem, but I won't know for sure until either the unit is examined or I happen to get a SACD-only disc; it's a fine CD player, but I think I could have gotten a "fine CD player" for considerably less, and I was hopping to get a great SACD player out of the deal too.

 

[JohnVF]

Thanks for the review so far...I hope you get the SACD thing figured out. I can't believe how BIG that thing is. It dwarfs my Marantz SA-11s2 and I thought it was huge.

 

[M Jarve]

I hope the SACD issue can be sorted as well... The only SACD's I have are the BIS Minnesota Symphony Orchestra Beethoven Symphony Cycle, and not one will initialize as a SACD. I wish now that I had gotten my free DSoTM SACD when I had the chance (it was not a hybrid), just so I could tell if it's a hybrid disc issue or if there really is a problem with the deck. It'd be very disappointing if that were the case. But, we'll wait and see... It was mentioned above that Sony might be able to do something for a $250 flat rate- maybe if I can get the seller to split it, I'd certainly go that route. But then again, I wonder if they'd even work on it, given what's already been done to it... Did I hear tell that Goldear used to work on these? :scratch2:

 

[M Jarve]

Hit post a bit early...

On a positive note, the more it warms up, and the more I listen, the more impressed I am. So far the standout thing really is the bass. Stunningly controlled and tight, but still fluid. It's leagues better than anything I've heard before. And, either I'm adjusting, or the deck is warming up more, or both, but the edge to the highs seems to be smoothing out a little.

 

[JohnVF]

The big thing I noticed when going to a better player was how well ambience, note decay, and reverb were handled. Note decays that sounded foggy before suddenly sounded like they were naturally decaying, off into infinity, in a VERY large space. I bet this Sony player does that very well...I've always liked the sound of Sony CD players and I could only imagine what this beast can accomplish. Leave it on all day and night...I bet it really opens up. I have a Cambridge 640vII and even my lowly Sony RC-W1 sounded better..man, I bet you're in for a treat.

 

[M Jarve]

Got a reply back from the seller. He's adamant that it played SACD's, CDDA's, and hybrids, and I trust him that it did. He also pointed out that it's a big girl with delicate features, and something could easily have been jarred during shipping, which I agree is the most likely scenario. He offered a full refund (sans return shipping), but I declined. I'd be without a CD player for an indeterminate amount of time, until he received it back, sent my money back, I find a new one, send the money, wait for it to get here... Probably end up back where I started. I think I'll just forgo the SACD option for now, and probably use tax returns to send it to Sony, if they'll still work on it.

In the meantime, I'll still have a kick-ass CD player, plus there is still the possibility that a straight SACD will work fine. As an aside, the seller mentioned that his new Oppo had the same exact problem, and it was not until he popped in a straight SACD that it would read the hybrids.

In any event, I put on some Radiohead, which, John, is just the sort of thing to bring out what you describe. Just stunning. There is an almost enveloping sense to the sound, and to paraphrase another member (from another thread) the veil was lifted, and I suddenly knew what they were talking about. As good as the 640c is (and I still consider it a bargain killer), this Sony is demonstrating that it is indeed in a different league. It's nearly good enough that its within striking distance of taking the coveted "most favorite source" title from my PX-2/MC20E2 combo.

 

[Mister Pig]

Be very careful on this deal

From my perspective you have a machine that at best has seen a good deal of use, and at worst has been abused. Sony its going to charge you to make repairs to the wirimg before they deal withthe transport issue. I have heard they return a machine to stock before repairing. If this goes wrong you get a nine hundred dollar paper weight. If I were on your position I would get my money back and buy a 777 in better shape.

Regards
Mister Pig

 

[M Jarve]

From my perspective you have a machine that at best has seen a good deal of use, and at worst has been abused. Sony its going to charge you to make repairs to the wirimg before they deal withthe transport issue. I have heard they return a machine to stock before repairing. If this goes wrong you get a nine hundred dollar paper weight. If I were on your position I would get my money back and buy a 777 in better shape.

Regards
Mister Pig

Words of wisdom, and the seller would seem to agree with you. I'm going to try a friend's straight SACD and see what that does. Otherwise it looks like it's heading back down to Texas, and I'll be in the market for another.

 

[goldear]

Feel free to PM me if you would like. I'd be happy to walk you through the diagnosis process over the phone if you would like.

 

[M Jarve]

Thank you very much for the offer. But it's going back to the seller. Last night a friend with a good collection of SACD's came over, both hybrids and straight SACD's. All told, 14 hybrids and 8 straights were put through it. Of all 22 discs, it only read one hybrid as an SACD (and only once), and two of the straight SACD's (again, intermittently). Decided to admit defeat and box it back up.

Dang, it was a nice deck, though.

So, now comes the long wait... It'll be at least 2-weeks, I'm sure, before I see the refund (he's sending back my original M.O.). But that might end up being a good thing- give me time to plan my next move, so to speak, something less of the "I see it, I want it!" school of purchasing.

 

[Mister Pig]

Hope Your Refund Works Out

Thank you very much for the offer. But it's going back to the seller. Last night a friend with a good collection of SACD's came over, both hybrids and straight SACD's. All told, 14 hybrids and 8 straights were put through it. Of all 22 discs, it only read one hybrid as an SACD (and only once), and two of the straight SACD's (again, intermittently). Decided to admit defeat and box it back up.

Dang, it was a nice deck, though.

So, now comes the long wait... It'll be at least 2-weeks, I'm sure, before I see the refund (he's sending back my original M.O.). But that might end up being a good thing- give me time to plan my next move, so to speak, something less of the "I see it, I want it!" school of purchasing.

Wish you the best of luck with this. I would strongly suspect that the seller knew he had a machine that did not read SACD's. I would think that someone who owns an expensive SACD machine would buy a disc or two to at least try it out. So that makes me question his motive to sell it, and then you are trusting the same person to make things right. As I said I hope it works out ok, be very careful and diligent.

If everything does go as expected, then you got very lucky. Lucky that the machine showed its problems up front, and not four or six weeks down the road, and you getting stuck with the repair bill. The condition of the machine says a lot about how its been treated. Missing feet, who takes feet off a $3.5K player and loses them? Or butchers the internal wiring, certainly not a fastidious owner.

I look for a good price too, but shop carefully. This is especially true in the digital market, where repairs can be spendy. I made a mistake once with a Sonic Frontiers SFCD-1 CD player. Got it at a good price, one I could afford, but it developed tracking issues shortly after I bought it. I had to send it back to SF for a new laser assembly. In the mean time SF ibforms me that the SFCD-1 laser assembly gets powered up all the time, whenever the machine is plugged in. So it needs a new $250 laser swap every three to four years. Well once I got it back and verified it was working I sold it. Make sure to carefully my used digital purchases these days.

Regards
Mister Pig

 

[HiFiGuy528]

My SCD-777es started to have the same issue with Hybrd SACDs. Will not read the SACD layer. I would send it to Sony, buy I worry that they will bang up my minty unit. Your thoughts? Sony charge $200 flat rate.

 

[wsjoe]

loading time between 777 and SCD-1

I own the SCD-1 and as someone mentioned, it's like molasses when loading a disc. I heard someone say that the SCD-777ES does not take as long as the SCD-1. Mine takes about 20 seconds to load one. Can someone measure how long the 777 takes please?

 

[jblnut]

FWIW I went through this exact thought process. I looked heavily at the 777 and SCD1 as there are a lot of used ones out there. Ultimately I decided the new XA5400 ES was the better solution. For starters it's brand new and the 5 year warranty clock starts the moment you buy it. It's comparably priced to either of these big boys from yesteryear, and for all their build quality they do develop issues that will require some $$$ to attend to.

No, it doesn't weigh a ton and it doesn't have that same "built like a tank" feeling. But the *sound* is spectacular (another 10 years of digital advancement can't be ignored) and in the end, that's the bottom line.

Has anyone here ever compared the the older SCD1/777 to the 5400? I'd be curious to know how close they are...

jblnut

 

[HiFiGuy528]

I have all three players, but have not had a chance to compare due to lack of free time. I do plan on doing so and will report back.

I ordered a new IC for my SCD777es in hopes it will fix the problem I'm experiencing.

Does the laser need to be realigned when installing a new one?

 

[Sound Dragon]

Funny I was in the process of starting a new thread about whether the SCD-1 and the SCD-777 are still relevant today, especially when compared to newer players. I too am curious what the consensus is in comparing the SCD-1/777 to a newer player of today. I really want one of the older players but i am tired of shelling out cash to fix used stuff. I have to admit the top loading missile bay door is almost worth the price of admission.

 

[jblnut]

Funny I was in the process of starting a new thread about whether the SCD-1 and the SCD-777 are still relevant today, especially when compared to newer players. I too am curious what the consensus is in comparing the SCD-1/777 to a newer player of today. I really want one of the older players but i am tired of shelling out cash to fix used stuff. I have to admit the top loading missile bay door is almost worth the price of admission.

That's precisely where Sony aimed too high - they over thought the spindle bigtime. A cd player is not an analog turntable. All the data is read through a buffer so exact moment to moment rotational speed accuracy is not relevant.

I think it looks cool as hell but it was obviously not built for the long haul ( despite the heft and the otherwise sturdy nature of the unit).

Complexity for the sake of complexity should always be avoided...and our hobby has a boatload of it .

Jblnut

 

[Sound Dragon]

Well the digital fates are smiling on me!!!!

As luck would have it a buddy of mine has the SCD-XA5400 and has gratiously agreed to lend it to me for a week or so while he goes on vacation. I also just committed to buying an SCD-777! I know that you all think I have lost my mind but the deal was too good to let slip through my fingers. I am stoked!!!
Any way, I hope to be able to do a side by side shoot out of these two units and will report back. I have been lusting after the SCD-777 for a long time and can't wait to seal the deal and get her home! SCD-XA5400 Will be arriving here on Sunday. I am so excited!