QLS-1 Restoration Project
- Thread starter banffskiing
- Start date
Kencat
Super Member
Kencat said:Hey Banff,
It's past Sunday. My popcorn bucket is getting low
Giving this thread a bump up, to see if Banff can give us an update. It's been quite awhile from the expected unveiling. I was looking forward to this because of the crossover work done, that could help all us Q owners. Hope there aren't any big problems
Kencat
Super Member
quantum 3 said:
Needs new crank bearings.....ooops, wrong technology
Just a shot in the dark here - I've not had any experience with these, but it would be where I would look if I had the same problem....what about the spider-to-frame or cone-to-former or former-to- spider connections ? Seems you have covered the surround connections. Check out all those posible joints in the driver for a loose connection (glue job). Hopefully a reglue would rectify the problem.
I noticed on one of my woofers that the cone seems to have moved on the former......it hasn't presented any issues yet, but I've been waiting :sigh:
banffskiing
Active Member
To All
Sorry for the long delay since my last post. I am ready to etch one of my new crossover boards but have been busy doing other projects and skiing.
I have all of the parts in a box sitting beside the speakers just need to invest about 2 or 3 days putting everything back together. It's kind of a curse but I have always been very picky about doing the job right and not just throwing them back together. When I am finshed with this thread It should contain quite a bit of info for anyone else interested in the quantums. The AK forums already contain more info on this subject than any place else I've seen.
I will post more info as soon as I finish the crossover boards. I think it will be a much cleaner design than what was oridginally there plus the caps I am using are much better than what I removed. It sort of looked like a rats nest when I first looked inside them.
Sorry for the long delay since my last post. I am ready to etch one of my new crossover boards but have been busy doing other projects and skiing.
I have all of the parts in a box sitting beside the speakers just need to invest about 2 or 3 days putting everything back together. It's kind of a curse but I have always been very picky about doing the job right and not just throwing them back together. When I am finshed with this thread It should contain quite a bit of info for anyone else interested in the quantums. The AK forums already contain more info on this subject than any place else I've seen.
I will post more info as soon as I finish the crossover boards. I think it will be a much cleaner design than what was oridginally there plus the caps I am using are much better than what I removed. It sort of looked like a rats nest when I first looked inside them.
banffskiing
Active Member
Ken
Thanks for the boost, today was a dreary day outside or a perfect day to work on my speakers. Etched one of the pcb boards and got it completely stuffed and assembled. I will post some pics tomorrow left the camera cable at work and can't get the pictures off the camera. It turned out very clean with all the spade connectors on the board. It took a little time for the etching because it was a little cool outside. I am going to mount the board on the back wall behind the woofer and leave the large chokes in there original position. Should make it eaiser to plug everything in. Also the back side of the panel that holds the pots, is alot cleaner looking.
Banff
Thanks for the boost, today was a dreary day outside or a perfect day to work on my speakers. Etched one of the pcb boards and got it completely stuffed and assembled. I will post some pics tomorrow left the camera cable at work and can't get the pictures off the camera. It turned out very clean with all the spade connectors on the board. It took a little time for the etching because it was a little cool outside. I am going to mount the board on the back wall behind the woofer and leave the large chokes in there original position. Should make it eaiser to plug everything in. Also the back side of the panel that holds the pots, is alot cleaner looking.
Banff
Kencat
Super Member
Banff,
Will be fun watching it all come together. :yes:
Could you elaborate more though as you post, on what you do to etch the PCB board and why. I figured it was all point to point wiring/soldering. I haven't done anything like this before, so need to learn. I can see where a similar recap of my Q2's would probably bring them back to life as they once were. Now, they still sound fantastic to me at the moment, but then I don't have a time machine to go back to 78 to hear them in the showroom. Just have to believe those electrolytics must be showing signs of old age by now.
Will be fun watching it all come together. :yes:
Could you elaborate more though as you post, on what you do to etch the PCB board and why. I figured it was all point to point wiring/soldering. I haven't done anything like this before, so need to learn. I can see where a similar recap of my Q2's would probably bring them back to life as they once were. Now, they still sound fantastic to me at the moment, but then I don't have a time machine to go back to 78 to hear them in the showroom. Just have to believe those electrolytics must be showing signs of old age by now.
banffskiing
Active Member
Crossover pcb's
2/26
Here are a few pics of the pcb for the qls-1. Ken as for making the pcb boards I use an old software program called WIN PCB from a company called IVEX. The company has since gone out of buisness and the program will not run under windows xp, only win98
2/27
Sorry
Pics were over the limit, will re-take and post tonight.
3/1
As for making the artwork, any pcb cad cad software should work fine but may take a little time to learn if you don't already know how to use it.
Once the artwork is done I use a laser printer to copy it to Press-n-Peel Blue Toner Transfer
If you look it up on the internet ther should be lots of instructions.
After you print the artwork to the transfer paper you simply Iron it on to a bare copper pcb.
I then use ferric chloride from Radio Shack to etch the board.
After that you simply drill out the holes, stuff the components and solder them to the pcb.
If you notice the bottom side of the board, I also used the leads from the electrolytics to form part of the conduction path. All of those black caps form the 1200uf and the 1400uf caps used in the Watkins woofer.
2/26
Here are a few pics of the pcb for the qls-1. Ken as for making the pcb boards I use an old software program called WIN PCB from a company called IVEX. The company has since gone out of buisness and the program will not run under windows xp, only win98
2/27
Sorry
Pics were over the limit, will re-take and post tonight.
3/1
As for making the artwork, any pcb cad cad software should work fine but may take a little time to learn if you don't already know how to use it.
Once the artwork is done I use a laser printer to copy it to Press-n-Peel Blue Toner Transfer
If you look it up on the internet ther should be lots of instructions.
After you print the artwork to the transfer paper you simply Iron it on to a bare copper pcb.
I then use ferric chloride from Radio Shack to etch the board.
After that you simply drill out the holes, stuff the components and solder them to the pcb.
If you notice the bottom side of the board, I also used the leads from the electrolytics to form part of the conduction path. All of those black caps form the 1200uf and the 1400uf caps used in the Watkins woofer.
Attachments
banffskiing
Active Member
Kencat
Super Member
Fantastic Work
:thmbsp:
Banff,
That is some awesome professional work done there. Very impressive. It's a benchmark to work towards for sure.
Expect a whole bunch more questions from this dude about what you have done here for sure. Again, beautiful work. Really nice. :yes:
The proof will be in your listening of these iconic speakers.
Hurry the hell up will ya !!!!
:thmbsp:
Banff,
That is some awesome professional work done there. Very impressive. It's a benchmark to work towards for sure.
Expect a whole bunch more questions from this dude about what you have done here for sure. Again, beautiful work. Really nice. :yes:
The proof will be in your listening of these iconic speakers.
Hurry the hell up will ya !!!!
quantum 3
Active Member
The Quantum updates
I concur, Banff, you took on the major project, how is it?
Shameless self-plug for my Quantum 3 project, they are complete (all drivers working perfectly, cabs cleaned up, built new grills, etc.). And most importantly beyond the appearance, they sound absolutely amazing! I also won the turf battle with my wife over placement, so they now permanently reside in my large basement living room and just eat up the power from my Adcom GFA-1 (300wpc) and put forth gorgeous sounds! I'd post pics, but they look like new, nothing much to see! :thmbsp:
I was looking at a local pair of Column II speakers here in Denver, but the ebayer seemed a little shady. He ended the auction early and sold them off ebay to someone out of state. I have never seen nor heard the Column II's, but the little I can read on them made them seem intriguing...? :sigh:
I concur, Banff, you took on the major project, how is it?
Shameless self-plug for my Quantum 3 project, they are complete (all drivers working perfectly, cabs cleaned up, built new grills, etc.). And most importantly beyond the appearance, they sound absolutely amazing! I also won the turf battle with my wife over placement, so they now permanently reside in my large basement living room and just eat up the power from my Adcom GFA-1 (300wpc) and put forth gorgeous sounds! I'd post pics, but they look like new, nothing much to see! :thmbsp:
I was looking at a local pair of Column II speakers here in Denver, but the ebayer seemed a little shady. He ended the auction early and sold them off ebay to someone out of state. I have never seen nor heard the Column II's, but the little I can read on them made them seem intriguing...? :sigh:
banffskiing
Active Member
To All:
Sorry FOR the long delay. My company decided to shut down a couple of months ago and I have been busy looking for a new source of Income.
Also been busy working on one of our main vehicles that has a blown engine.
Can't wait to get back to working on them again. Kencat made a comment a long time ago about taking a couple of years to work on them.
Wow little did I Know it would take that much time but hopfully I will get back on them soon.
Thanks
Banff
Sorry FOR the long delay. My company decided to shut down a couple of months ago and I have been busy looking for a new source of Income.
Also been busy working on one of our main vehicles that has a blown engine.
Can't wait to get back to working on them again. Kencat made a comment a long time ago about taking a couple of years to work on them.
Wow little did I Know it would take that much time but hopfully I will get back on them soon.
Thanks
Banff
banffskiing
Active Member
Restoration Update
Wow
19 months later and I have finished One speaker completed.
First picture shows the crossover mounted directly on the back wall behind the woofer. Second pic shows the rear control panel, and the inductors mounted on the bottom. The last pic shows everything connected and ready to have the batting stuffed back in the cabinet.
Banff
Wow
19 months later and I have finished One speaker completed.
First picture shows the crossover mounted directly on the back wall behind the woofer. Second pic shows the rear control panel, and the inductors mounted on the bottom. The last pic shows everything connected and ready to have the batting stuffed back in the cabinet.
Banff
Attachments
banffskiing
Active Member
Restoration Update
Here are a couple more that I forgot to include.
First pic I guess you could call it the before picture,
Second pic is with front cover attached also you can see the JBL 100T
sitting beside it. Later I will do a little testing and post my results
Banff
Here are a couple more that I forgot to include.
First pic I guess you could call it the before picture,
Second pic is with front cover attached also you can see the JBL 100T
sitting beside it. Later I will do a little testing and post my results
Banff
Attachments
banffskiing
Active Member
First Impressions
Spent the better part of today testing and listening to cd's and comparing the QLS-1 VS JBL L100t.
There is a big difference in the sound between those two speakers.
The Jbl has the 1inch titanium tweeter that sounds as if it's in you face compared to the line of emits. The titanium sounds very shrill compared to the emits. The emits seem to come on only when they are really needed.
When listening to vocals that have the "Sh" sound they really come out.
If you were judging by sheer tweeter volume alone the JBL wins hands down.
They kind of make the JBL sound a little skewed toward the upper mid to high end kind of harsh sounding.
There is a completly different sound coming from both speakers. It is easy to tell where the mids are coming from on the JBL where as the QLS seems to just be there, no pin pointing it's location. As for the vocals the qls wins hands down, just alot smoother sounding and less strained. As For the bass, I simply must be deaf below about 30hz, I can't tell alot differance except the the jbl has a boomy sound compared to the seal cabinet. It could be the rear port in the jbl that is up against the wall. Also probably not a fair test since the Infnity was out in the middle of the room. The bass is definatly tighter on the qls and they really make the floor shake when cranked up.
I also ran a impedance test with the woofer alone and with the whole speaker connected. Picture 1 shows a plot of the Watkins woofer by itself form 12 to 60hz. Picture 2 shows the range extended from 12 to 400hz. The last picture shows the impedance of the entire system from 20 to 20Khz in a log scale. I have been testing the system with the Onkyo M-504 amp for about 2 days now and have not had any trouble with the amp driving the speakers. Might be a little scared to set the freq generator to 18hz and turn it up but, as far as listening to music there's really not alot of action in that area anyway unless your listening to rap.
Banff
Spent the better part of today testing and listening to cd's and comparing the QLS-1 VS JBL L100t.
There is a big difference in the sound between those two speakers.
The Jbl has the 1inch titanium tweeter that sounds as if it's in you face compared to the line of emits. The titanium sounds very shrill compared to the emits. The emits seem to come on only when they are really needed.
When listening to vocals that have the "Sh" sound they really come out.
If you were judging by sheer tweeter volume alone the JBL wins hands down.
They kind of make the JBL sound a little skewed toward the upper mid to high end kind of harsh sounding.
There is a completly different sound coming from both speakers. It is easy to tell where the mids are coming from on the JBL where as the QLS seems to just be there, no pin pointing it's location. As for the vocals the qls wins hands down, just alot smoother sounding and less strained. As For the bass, I simply must be deaf below about 30hz, I can't tell alot differance except the the jbl has a boomy sound compared to the seal cabinet. It could be the rear port in the jbl that is up against the wall. Also probably not a fair test since the Infnity was out in the middle of the room. The bass is definatly tighter on the qls and they really make the floor shake when cranked up.
I also ran a impedance test with the woofer alone and with the whole speaker connected. Picture 1 shows a plot of the Watkins woofer by itself form 12 to 60hz. Picture 2 shows the range extended from 12 to 400hz. The last picture shows the impedance of the entire system from 20 to 20Khz in a log scale. I have been testing the system with the Onkyo M-504 amp for about 2 days now and have not had any trouble with the amp driving the speakers. Might be a little scared to set the freq generator to 18hz and turn it up but, as far as listening to music there's really not alot of action in that area anyway unless your listening to rap.
Banff
Attachments
banffskiing
Active Member
Watkins Crossover
Looking at the graph on the prevoius thread, for the woofer alone, it is very easy to tell exactly when the 2ohm voice coil kicks in. Looks to me like it is a little less than 20 hz. Not sure and maybe someone else out there knows for sure but it seems to me that the low impedance voice coil should kick in at the drivers resonate frequency. Probably need a plot of the woofers impedance with the 2 ohm coil disconnected. That would show exactly where the drivers goes into resonance. I am guessing that, at the peak of resonance, the 2 ohm coil should also be on at it's peak to counter the back emf caused by the reasonance. Kind of like to bell curves back to back.
I don't know but it's kind of fun playing with this stuff.
banff
Looking at the graph on the prevoius thread, for the woofer alone, it is very easy to tell exactly when the 2ohm voice coil kicks in. Looks to me like it is a little less than 20 hz. Not sure and maybe someone else out there knows for sure but it seems to me that the low impedance voice coil should kick in at the drivers resonate frequency. Probably need a plot of the woofers impedance with the 2 ohm coil disconnected. That would show exactly where the drivers goes into resonance. I am guessing that, at the peak of resonance, the 2 ohm coil should also be on at it's peak to counter the back emf caused by the reasonance. Kind of like to bell curves back to back.
I don't know but it's kind of fun playing with this stuff.
banff
OddE.O'Phile
Well-Known Member
Interesting stuff. I have a question about QLS speaker grilles. In the picture of your speakers you have the grille installed so that the horizontal bar that is part of the grille is not in front of the mids and tweeter lines. That would be a logical way to install it, but is it correct? Here is a link to a page from a QLS manual that addresses the issue.
http://www.infinity-classics.de/inf...antum-Line-Source-QLS-1/QLS_1_Manual_2_03.jpg
I interpreted that paragraph as meaning that horizontal bar should be closer to the line of tweeters so as to provide the benefit to the tweeters.
Attached photo shows how I have my grilles installed. Anyone have any thoughts? :scratch2:
Good job on getting your QLS up and running. You will have a lot of fun with them. :thmbsp:
http://www.infinity-classics.de/inf...antum-Line-Source-QLS-1/QLS_1_Manual_2_03.jpg
I interpreted that paragraph as meaning that horizontal bar should be closer to the line of tweeters so as to provide the benefit to the tweeters.
Attached photo shows how I have my grilles installed. Anyone have any thoughts? :scratch2:
Good job on getting your QLS up and running. You will have a lot of fun with them. :thmbsp:
Last edited:
Kencat
Super Member
Banff,
The 2 Ohm VC must kick in earlier than that, as Q2's are only rated to 24 Hz. I have the number 80 Hz in my head as where this would be, but I can't recall where it is from. That would make sense though I think. The peak at 25 Hz or so is actually pretty small, and perhaps would be way worse without the 2 Ohm coil.
How are you measuring the impedance?
It sure is interesting, but I don't enough about this to know if the curves are good or bad. Really need the SPL vs Freq response to know more and relate to the sound. Do you have that equipment?
It would be neat if someone with a stock crossover could take the same measurements for comparison.
Sounds like you are liking what you hear though so that's good.