Question for QLS 1 owners?

[InAp]

I agree the 4.5's are not for rock users that like pushing the boundries over a 100db, but the QLS-1's will qaulify easy. As far as the 4.5 goes, I have nop problem running the emims 100 hz up, but like a lot of speakers out there they need eq, the xo pots can't get them flat in the lower mid bass, the watkins are over bassed , and need eq to get them flat, once eq'd these are awesome speakers. I believe HP still uses a pair for his reference speaker, many yrs ago there was a review of the Apogee diva, Dunteck Soveriegn and 4.5, the 4.5 won that battle and I agree with it as I had them all . I even owned IRS-V's from 91 to 96, and I still put my 4.5 above them in the imaging dept. Al

 

[tomlinmgt]

I speculated that the cost was a little high because I've seen QLS1 go for significantly less on eBay, in various condition. There was a set that briefly appeared on eBay a couple of years ago in as good condition as these before Robmag with a bin of $700. They were local to me, too and the darn things instantly disappeared. I must agree that a set of QLS1 in excellent shape are likely worth what this seller is asking for them. I'll also agree that they should be right at the top of the list for what to consider grabbing from what's available. I'll suggest that if Robmag was thinking of getting the RS4.5 at the asking price that he might consider getting the QLS1 and the RSII. Excellent opportunities like this are rare and become more rare as time passes.

It's kind of funny, the guy I got my QLS-1's from had a pretty impressive Infinity collection of his own, as well...and all for sale. RSII, Q2, whatever the early model was that had the brass cone at the top and a few other early models...and he'd just sold some 2.5's. Everything was close to mint condition (the Betas, on the other hand...the closest thing that seller had to anything hi-fi was a Bose wave radio ad on the back of a Parade magazine sitting on the coffee table....very weird).

But I've heard what the QLS -1's are capable of right up against some of the other vintage icons and there's no question in my mind they're every bit a $1500 speaker if in proper operating and physical condition. Go to a hi end audio retailer and see what $1500 will get you. I'll tell you what...LF extension that's done before it ever gets to the 40's and a sound stage the size of my couch. Screw that. But I digress.

 

[waudio]

Well ... I just finished my other listening room and these discussions make my hands itchy to spend the next few weekends to finish my RS-4.5's and dust off my QLS-1's. I am curious about RS-4.5's have better imaging than the RS-1b's, and want to hear it and make comparison. I hope to hear surprises, as I also have the active crossover, the only and one time that I saw in ebay.

QLS-1's for $1300 is a great price, especially if local. I bought mine at $1100 and spent $400 for shipping. RS-4.5's at $3500 may not be too steep, especially considering that it has the active crossover and there are very few left now in working condition within the continental U.S., or even may be in this whole planet. I was fortunate to acquire a pair of mint cabinets, passive crossovers, and the whole compliment of emims in good condition and NOS emits. I just need to put them together now, and follow how rabbit restored his.

A friend of mine recently auditioned my set of RS-1b's (with the assorted gears that I use) and he said that he thinks it is better than his $5000 Focal speakers. Not to ignite speaker debate here, but it shows what these old infinities are capable of.

 

[geoff727]

I've read from more than few different sources that the 4.5's ask a lot from those EMIMs (perhaps too much if higher output levels are attempted) by having them reach down to mate with the Watkins drivers. It's no big secret the EMIMs aren't exactly champs down there where a bit of excursion is necessary for impressive dynamics in that region of content. I've never heard 4.5's, but I can see where such an observation could have some validity since Infinity came out with the L-EMIM after the 4.5's.

Thinking out loud..
There's an ebay seller who offers an upgraded magnet assembly for EMIMs- neodymium magnets which are stronger than the original SmCo (like Infinity went to on the later IRS series). With the stronger magnets, there are spacers so that the excursion of the diaphragm can be increased. One could make this kit on their own if they were so motivated and knowledgeable.

On the original diaphragm, the greatest excursion happens in the middle. On a piece of mylar which is fixed around the edges, this is what will happen. So, the SPL generated with any given drive current lessens as you get further from the middle of the driver until you reach where the mylar is glued to the frame and the excursion/SPL would be zero.

On the Graz diaphragms, the pleating should allow much more even excursion across the surface of the radiating element. I'm theorizing here, but it seems that this would produce a given SPL with lower overall excursion of the diaphragm compared to the center portion of the original diaphragm (greater surface radiating + equivalent SPL generated = less excursion = greater power handling before the foil traces come into contact with the magnets).

I'd be willing to bet that an upgraded magnet assembly that allows for greater excursion, plus Graz diaphragms, would go a long way to solving a lot of these old problems (limited dynamics, power handling, midbass weakness)overnight.

Sorry, off topic a little bit.

 

[Newk_Yuler]

I'd be willing to bet that an upgraded magnet assembly that allows for greater excursion, plus Graz diaphragms, would go a long way to solving a lot of these old problems (limited dynamics, power handling, midbass weakness)overnight.

Sorry, off topic a little bit.

I'd think even from a purist's perspective that everything you've mentioned added to a set of RS4.5 to be desirable, value added, and undoubtedly performance enhancing modifications. The problem is the cost to value consideration. Remember the collective heart attack in the AK Infinity group when Graz announced his EMIM diaphragm pricing?

It's relevant to prospective new RS4.5 owners like Robmag and a path they can consider for making changes for the better, but it's important to understand the additional cost and effort involved. It's a lot easier and in many circumstances a better value to buy a classic Infinity model that fits a need and is already very close to its performance potential.

 

[tomlinmgt]

I spent about fifteen minutes the other day searching to try to find what Graz was asking for his EMIM diaphragms and came up with nothing....what is he asking for those things, anyway?

 

[InAp]

somewhere around 220 bucks each

 

[Kev_rat]

Have done both the Graz and magnet (plus spacer) mod to my RS 4.5. I was initally worried that I may diminsh something, so I made the mod to a spare set of 8 non-functioning EMIMs and kept the original (perfect) EMIMs as spare. Yes it was expensive, yes it works and the RS 4.5s are ready for many more years of use.
They are still my favourite speaker.

 

[chef free]

Have done both the Graz and magnet (plus spacer) mod to my RS 4.5. I was initally worried that I may diminsh something, so I made the mod to a spare set of 8 non-functioning EMIMs and kept the original (perfect) EMIMs as spare. Yes it was expensive, yes it works and the RS 4.5s are ready for many more years of use.
They are still my favourite speaker.

How do the new EMIMs compare sound-wise?

 

[Kev_rat]

My ears are very untrained, (if a lttle spoiled

However, they made a deinate improvement. So I'm still very happy to have done it, and would do it again.
None of the imaging was affected, and that rather spooky sensation of having a real voice singing in the room is still there; and they still outperform the AR-9 handly (by that, they sound better to me).
I have never really gone over 100db or so so am unable to really say if loud rock is improved, but they sure sound good playing the first 3 Led Zep albumns.
As for power handling, my Krell is currently at the factory having a quiet little holiday (I hope it enjoys it- as at 90Kg it was a bastard to ship), so I cannnot say how power handling goes :-( In a couple of weeks perhaps I will be able to say
With the NAD 218 they are improved over original
The F5 I am running at the moment is making them sing very nicely - if relatively softly.

 

[geoff727]

Good to hear positive things from someone who has actually done both those simple mods.

Newk Yuler is right, one definitely has to consider the cost of ownership issues, assuming that a 30-year old speaker may have a lot of items to address that can't be seen in the photos but are necessary for continued longevity. At some point, the cost may migrate into "labor of love" territory. Actually, I think ALL my speakers are labors of love at this point!

G~

 

[InAp]

Thanks Kev for your review on the Graz ribbons, I was really worried about the imaging and voice reallisim of the 4.5 changing. ,if they due a 100db on rock with no problem on dynamics, I guess I might just have to bite the bullit to. These are like the 60's Camaro's and Mustang's, irriplaceable antiques way ahead of thier time, in reality they should be up in price with the vintage cars, Al

 

[Robmag]

I would like to thank everyone for the wealth of knowledge that they were willing to share. I have decided on the QLS and will pick them up in the next month or so. I was really torn between the RS4.5 and the QLS. I do think the RS 4.5 will perfrom better when listening to some of my favorite tunes like "Turn the page" but I think the QLS is a smarter buy and will provide the imaging I desire. If the price would have been a little better on the RS 4.5's I would have jumped on them. The only thing I will need to do when I get the QLS is rebuild the crossovers. The owner has informed me that they will need to be done. Thanks again for the wealth of knowledge.

Rob

 

[chef free]

Good choice Rob! These speakers work well for "rock" if you turn the domes way up.

 

[Newk_Yuler]

Please let us know how it all goes.

 

[audiomagnate]

I would like to thank everyone for the wealth of knowledge that they were willing to share. I have decided on the QLS and will pick them up in the next month or so. I was really torn between the RS4.5 and the QLS. I do think the RS 4.5 will perfrom better when listening to some of my favorite tunes like "Turn the page" but I think the QLS is a smarter buy and will provide the imaging I desire. If the price would have been a little better on the RS 4.5's I would have jumped on them. The only thing I will need to do when I get the QLS is rebuild the crossovers. The owner has informed me that they will need to be done. Thanks again for the wealth of knowledge.

Rob

Don't assume the crossovers need to be rebuilt just because the previous owner told you they do. If they are anything like the ones in the 4.5/2.5 they are probably fine. I would have gone for the 4.5s if they were anywhere near the same price, but I'm partial to EMIM/EMITs.

 

[Robmag]

Don't assume the crossovers need to be rebuilt just because the previous owner told you they do. If they are anything like the ones in the 4.5/2.5 they are probably fine. I would have gone for the 4.5s if they were anywhere near the same price, but I'm partial to EMIM/EMITs.

$3550.00 for the 4.5's and EQ. If you don't want the EQ, $3000.00

 

[chef free]

Don't assume the crossovers need to be rebuilt just because the previous owner told you they do. If they are anything like the ones in the 4.5/2.5 they are probably fine.

You should at least visually inspect the caps for leakage, cracks, swelling, etc.; these speakers were made from 1977 to 1982, there's a good chance that the electrolytic caps are no longer within spec. I have an early production pair with bundles of 200 uF caps and all 26 were leaking, both 40uF too.

Let us know how they sound!

 

[InAp]

I've had a lot of Infinitys and other speakers and never seen cap leaks, as audiomangate says, leave alone and I agree, changing caps will revoice the speaker.

 

[slimpikkins]

I've had a lot of Infinitys and other speakers and never seen cap leaks, as audiomangate says, leave alone and I agree, changing caps will revoice the speaker.

Sometimes i think the new electrolytic caps are more prone the bulging and leaking. I've had failures of caps less then ten years old in a tv power supply (3 year old LG), computers, dvd playerx2, and a cd player which may have be more like 15 years old. Some of the new electrolytic caps are just $hit...
Jim