Question regarding a recently acquired Yamaha CA-1000

[pizzathehut]

Hey everyone,

New to the site & I’m hoping people with more knowledge about vintage receivers can help me out with this. Also hope this is the right forum to post this in.

For a while now I’ve been using a little Yamaha CR-400 (16 or 18 watts ish?), and I’m running a pair of Technics SB-6000 speakers (93db sensitivity). It was a nice combo and I never needed the volume above say 40%, loud enough for the space I’m in. Recently I branched out and found a CA-1000 in good condition & recently serviced, so I picked it up and set it up with my 6000s.

I’m not sure if this is normal, but I find myself having to turn it up much more (roughly 60-70%) to achieve the same amount of level I was getting out of the CR400, and maybe I’m missing something but I was under the impression moving up to a 70watt receiver would give me some more headroom/volume to work with. I’ve seen some videos on YouTube of folks demo’ing these and they all seem to stay well under halfway on the volume. Am I okay running the CA1000 this high or is this something I should get looked at?
Cheers

 

[mbz]

Verify all switches in their normal positions, ie, tape monitor off, mute off... Are you talking phono or AUX?
Volume should be in the 10-11o'clock position for "firm" listening level (for average sized room).

FYI there is a yamaha sub forum.

As capable as the CR-400 is, the CA-1000 will make a mess of it.

 

[pizzathehut]

Verify all switches in their normal positions, ie, tape monitor off, mute off... Are you talking phono or AUX?
Volume should be in the 10-11o'clock position for "firm" listening level (for average sized room).

FYI there is a yam

As capable as the CR-400 is, the CA-1000 will make a mess of it.

Verify all switches in their normal positions, ie, tape monitor off, mute off... Are you talking phono or AUX?
Volume should be in the 10-11o'clock position for "firm" listening level (for average sized room).

FYI there is a yamaha sub forum.

As capable as the CR-400 is, the CA-1000 will make a mess of it.

Ah I must’ve missed the Yamaha sub. Okay yes tape monitor and the mute are both off, I’ve used my turntable into phono and a cd player into the aux and got the same result from both. I was honestly surprised when I first tried it out since I assumed, and i guess rightfully so, that it should be walking all over the 400 and yet I need to have it set past noon on the dial

 

[mbz]

The phono is a low level input so volume will need to be at about "noon" for that "firm" listening level. AUX should be lower than 11oclock, with the usual assumptions on listening room size, seated distance from spkrs keeping in mind 93dB spkrs...

Maybe for the record, mention room size/shape(simple rectangular?)/ceiling hight, spkr separation and seated distance to spkrs.

The CA-1000 does need a lot of refurb work especially with dirty switches and possibly protection relay. Do you have a list as to what jobs were done as part of the refurb?

With amp powered off, set the rear coupler to off then connect RCA cables from left pre-out into left main-in. Repeat fro right pre-out/main-in. Same result? This cabling bypasses the coupler, a known problem area. You could also try working through each switch in turn, ie, gently rock the switch back and forth (to scratch off some oxidation?) a few times before fully switching a few times, note any change in levels. Don't do this procedure for the operations (CLASS A/NORMAL) switch.

Both channels the same?
Same for Class A and Normal? (power off before switching)

My bet would be on tarnished spkr protection contacts, this can be tested with a chop stick. more later...

What does the CA-1000 sound like. You should be hearing a detailed sound with good sound stage but a little bass shy, should be a "wow" moment over the CR400...

 

[MonkeyRelish]

Something isn’t right there if you have to turn up to 60 - 70 % (1 - 2 o’clock) on a CA-1000.
I have a CA-600 and CA-1000.
For my listening levels (phono), the 1000 is usually set at 10 - 11 o’clock.
The 600 more like 2 o’clock, but I don’t like going past there, don’t want any clipping ruining my speakers.

Mr Relish

 

[Dswankey]

The CA-1000 is a beast and you're already getting some good trouble shooting advice.

If you don't already have it here is a copy of the OEM owners/users manual, take your time and double check each switch is in the correct positions,

http://akdatabase.com/AKview/displayimage.php?album=3&pos=52

 

[pizzathehut]

The phono is a low level input so volume will need to be at about "noon" for that "firm" listening level. AUX should be lower than 11oclock, with the usual assumptions on listening room size, seated distance from spkrs keeping in mind 93dB spkrs...

Maybe for the record, mention room size/shape(simple rectangular?)/ceiling hight, spkr separation and seated distance to spkrs.

The CA-1000 does need a lot of refurb work especially with dirty switches and possibly protection relay. Do you have a list as to what jobs were done as part of the refurb?

With amp powered off, set the rear coupler to off then connect RCA cables from left pre-out into left main-in. Repeat fro right pre-out/main-in. Same result? This cabling bypasses the coupler, a known problem area. You could also try working through each switch in turn, ie, gently rock the switch back and forth (to scratch off some oxidation?) a few times before fully switching a few times, note any change in levels. Don't do this procedure for the operations (CLASS A/NORMAL) switch.

Both channels the same?
Same for Class A and Normal? (power off before switching)

My bet would be on tarnished spkr protection contacts, this can be tested with a chop stick. more later...

What does the CA-1000 sound like. You should be hearing a detailed sound with good sound stage but a little bass shy, should be a "wow" moment over the CR400...

My room is roughly 13x26 with 7ft ceilings, speakers about 6ft apart and I’m sitting 6.5-7ft away. I unfortunately don’t have a list of what was done to it, I will try disengaging the coupler and using rca and working through the switches (not the class a vs ab one) when I get home from work tonight. I will report back, thank you!

 

[hopeless]

You should move yourself back or pull the speakers closer together. You are likely getting a hole in the soundstage. Not going to fix your problem, but it will improve the sound.

The CA1000 is kind of a magical piece.i watch for them every now and then.

 

[Dswankey]

..I’ve been using a little Yamaha CR-400 ,.. I never needed the volume above say 40%...I find myself having to turn it up much more (roughly 60-70%) to achieve the same amount of level I was getting out of the CR400.. I was under the impression moving up to a 70watt receiver would give me some more headroom/volume to work with.

You should move yourself back or pull the speakers closer together. You are likely getting a hole in the soundstage. Not going to fix your problem, but it will improve the sound.

The OP doesn't mention having issues with soundstage or wanting to improve the sound, issue is with the volume.

 

[pizzathehut]

The phono is a low level input so volume will need to be at about "noon" for that "firm" listening level. AUX should be lower than 11oclock, with the usual assumptions on listening room size, seated distance from spkrs keeping in mind 93dB spkrs...
Maybe for the record, mention room size/shape(simple rectangular?)/ceiling hight, spkr separation and seated distance to spkrs.

The CA-1000 does need a lot of refurb work especially with dirty switches and possibly protection relay. Do you have a list as to what jobs were done as part of the refurb?

With amp powered off, set the rear coupler to off then connect RCA cables from left pre-out into left main-in. Repeat fro right pre-out/main-in. Same result? This cabling bypasses the coupler, a known problem area. You could also try working through each switch in turn, ie, gently rock the switch back and forth (to scratch off some oxidation?) a few times before fully switching a few times, note any change in levels. Don't do this procedure for the operations (CLASS A/NORMAL) switch.

Both channels the same?
Same for Class A and Normal? (power off before switching)

My bet would be on tarnished spkr protection contacts, this can be tested with a chop stick. more later...

What does the CA-1000 sound like. You should be hearing a detailed sound with good sound stage but a little bass shy, should be a "wow" moment over the CR400...

tried everything I could but still getting the same result in both A and AB, disengaging the coupler and using an rca didn’t help, the sound quality is still really clear and punchy without any clipping (to my ears anyway) but I think I’ll have to get it looked at by a tech. Hoping it doesnt end up costing me one million space bucks.

In the meantime I’ll be using my 400 again. I stuck an spl meter about 1m away from one of the loudspeakers just to see roughly where on the dial I reach the spec’d 93db - on the 400 it’s around 9-10 o clock, and probably between 12 to 1 on the 1000, so something is up. Hope I can get it sorted out. Thanks everyone for the help and confirming this isn’t how a 1000 should perform.

 

[avionic]

Welcome aboard..

 

[mbz]

The CR400 SM shows the volume pot as a "B"/Linear taper so the volume level will come on quicker than a "A"/Audio/log taper


This probably explains why the CR400 sounds louder at lower volume. It does not explain why you need to set CA-1000 to "noon" for AUX/CD firm listening level. This is definetly not conversation level. I've ignored low level output from the source as the cause since that would also affect the CR400.

EDIT: Issue could be caused by low output level of the source (and masked by the CR400 linear pot). What make/model CDP(?) are you using for AUX input. Typically CDP's output at about 2V but this does vary between manufactures. My Consonance is 2.3V

 

[hopeless]

The OP doesn't mention having issues with soundstage or wanting to improve the sound, issue is with the volume.

Yes, I mentioned that, but the interest in improving sound quality, this seemed to be an overlooked area. Sorry you were offended.

 

[pizzathehut]

The CR400 SM shows the volume pot as a "B"/Linear taper so the volume level will come on quicker than a "A"/Audio/log taper
View attachment 2675141

This probably explains why the CR400 sounds louder at lower volume. It does not explain why you need to set CA-1000 to "noon" for AUX/CD firm listening level. This is definetly not conversation level. I've ignored low level output from the source as the cause since that would also affect the CR400.

EDIT: Issue could be caused by low output level of the source (and masked by the CR400 linear pot). What make/model CDP(?) are you using for AUX input. Typically CDP's output at about 2V but this does vary between manufactures. My Consonance is 2.3V

Currently using an Onkyo DX-1400, which is believe outputs 2V

 

[mbz]

Currently using an Onkyo DX-1400, which is believe outputs 2V

Yep, that looks fine.
Reads like the amp needs a load test to confirm it's putting out the specified watts.
If you want to dig further, remove the woodwork (5 screws at base) and post some hi-res pix of the L&R power amp stages and also the power supply/relay board (view from underneath/base)

 

[Blue Shadow]

The 400 is probably out of power at noon the 1000 can probably go to 3:00.

It is just a difference of volume control. Kinda like a car, the little low power unit has a touchy throttle, jumping off the line with the slightest touch. Makes the buyer think he has some real power under the hood. The high-powered car has more control of the light pedal application and doesn't jump but just moves forward a bit.

What is the position of the Loudness control?

Call back when you cannot get the 1000 to make the volume it should.