Recap and restore Harman Kardon HK 330B (recap BOM under development)

[dlucy]

Note: don't use the below recap list yet as it is under development, not finalized.

I have two HK 330B stereo receivers, the "Roland" model, that I'm planning to recap and restore. Here are the components I'm planning to replace along with the parts from Mouser.

Your comments and corrections are welcome....

Board Component no. Type Sub-type Value Rating 1 Mfg Mouser PN Value Rating 1
AM Tuner C268 Capacitor Electrolytic 220 uF 6.3 VDC Nichicon 647-UPW1A221MED 220 uF 10 VDC
AM Tuner C272 Capacitor Electrolytic 220 uF 16 VDC Nichicon 647-UKL1E221KPD 220 uF 25 VDC
Control Amp C501,C502 Capacitor Electrolytic 1 uF 25 VDC Nichicon 647-UKL1H010MDDANA 1 uF 50 VDC
Control Amp C503-C506,C521,C522, Caxial Capacitor Electrolytic 1 uF 50 VDC Nichicon 647-UKL2A010KDD 1 uF 100 VDC
Control Amp C507,C508,C523,C524 Capacitor Electrolytic 10 uF 16 VDC Nichicon 647-UKL1E100KDDANA 10 uF 25 VDC
Control Amp C519,C520 Capacitor Electrolytic 220 uF 16 VDC Nichicon 647-UKL1E221KPD 220 uF 25 VDC
Control Amp Q501-Q506 Transistor BJT 2SC458 Fairchild 512-KSC1845FTA KSC1845F
FM IF Amp C218 Capacitor Electrolytic 10 uF 16 VDC Nichicon 647-UPW1E100MDD 10 uF 25 VDC
FM IF Amp C219 Capacitor Electrolytic 220 uF 16 VDC Nichicon 647-UPW1E221MPD 220 uF 25 VDC
FM MPX (not marked) Capacitor Electrolytic 1 uF 50 VDC Nichicon 647-UPW2A010MDD 1 uF 100 VDC
FM MPX C301,C302 Capacitor Electrolytic 0.47 uF 50 VDC Nichicon 647-UKL2AR47KDD 0.47 uF 100 VDC
FM MPX C313-C316 Capacitor Electrolytic 1 uF 50 VDC Nichicon 647-UKL2A010KDD 1 uF 100 VDC
FM MPX C325 Capacitor Electrolytic 220 uF 16 VDC Nichicon 647-UPW1E221MPD 220 uF 25 VDC
Main amp C401,C402,C407,C408 Capacitor Electrolytic 10 uF 16 VDC Nichicon 647-UKL1E100KDDANA 10 uF 25 VDC
Main amp C403,C404 Capacitor Electrolytic 220 uF 6.3 VDC Nichicon 647-UPW1E221MPD 220 uF 25 VDC
Main amp C405,C406 Capacitor Electrolytic 220 uF 16 VDC Nichicon 647-UPW1E221MPD 220 uF 25 VDC
Main amp C409,C410 Capacitor Electrolytic 47 uF 50 VDC Nichicon 647-UPW1J470MPD 47 uF 63 VDC
Main amp C417,C418 Capacitor Electrolytic 1 uF 50 VDC Nichicon 647-UPW2A010MDD 1 uF 100 VDC
Main amp C419,C420 Capacitor Electrolytic 1000 uF 35 VDC Nichicon 647-UKL1V222KHD 2200 uF 35 VDC
Main amp Q401,Q402 Transistor Pre-driver 2SC1335-D Fairchild 512-KSC3503DS KSC3503D
Main amp Q403,Q404 Transistor Driver 2SC1345-D Fairchild 512-KSC1845FTA KSC1845F
Main amp Q405,Q406 Transistor Biass 2SC458-C Fairchild 512-KSC1845FTA KSC1845F
Main amp Q407,Q408 Transistor Complement 2SC1509-Q Fairchild 512-KSC2690AYS KSC2690A
Main amp Q409,Q410 Transistor Complement 2SA777-Q Fairchild 512-KSA1220AYS KSA1220A
Main amp Q411-Q414 Transistor Output 2SC1107 ON Semi 863-MJE15030G MJE15030G
Main amp VR401,VR402 Resistor Trimpot 100K Bourns 652-3296W-1-104LF 100K 0.5 W
Main amp VR403,VR404 Resistor Trimpot 3K Bourns 652-3296W-1-472LF 4.7K 0.5 W
RIAA EQ C701,C702,C709,C710 Capacitor Electrolytic 10 uF 16 VDC Nichicon 647-UKL1E100KDDANA 10 uF 25 VDC
RIAA EQ C707,C708 Capacitor Electrolytic 33 uF 10 VDC Nichicon 647-UKL1C330KDDANA 33 uF 16 VDC
RIAA EQ C711,C712 Capacitor Electrolytic 0.33 uF 10 VDC Nichicon 647-UKL1HR33KDDANA 0.33 uF 50 VDC
RIAA EQ C717 Capacitor Electrolytic 100 uF 16 VDC Nichicon 647-UPW1E101MED 100 uF 25 VDC
RIAA EQ Q701-Q704 Transistor BJT 2SC458LG-C Fairchild 512-KSC1845FTA KSC1845F
Voltage rectifier (Main) C4,C5 Capacitor Electrolytic 1000 uF 35 VDC Nichicon 647-UPW1H182MHD 1800 uF 50 VDC
Voltage rectifier (Main) C6 Capacitor Electrolytic 2200 uF 63 VDC Nichicon 647-LKG1K472MESCBK 4700 uF 80 VDC
Voltage rectifier (Main) D2 Diode Zener EQA01-13 13 V Vishay 78-1N4743A 13 V 39 mA
Voltage rectifier (Main) D3-D6 Diode Rectifier VO3(E ) Vishay 625-UF5408-E3 1000 V 3 A
Voltage rectifier (Main) Q1 Transistor Voltage regulator 2SC1212A ON Semi 863-2SD1815T-E 2SD1815T
Voltage rectifier (SAB) C1 Capacitor Electrolytic 1000 uF 35 VDC Nichicon 647-UPW1H182MHD 1800 uF 50 VDC
Voltage rectifier (SAB) C2 Capacitor Electrolytic 2200 uF 35 VDC Nichicon 647-UHE1H272MHD 2700 uF 50 VDC
Voltage rectifier (SAB) D1 Diode Zener EQA01-30 30 V Vishay 78-1N4751A 30 V 30 mA

 

[Blue Shadow]

Conrad H likes to bump up all caps to a minimum of 35V if the space is available. He spoke to this in the Capacitor Abyss thread. Better build, longer lasting probably and such. It also might let you get to a quantity discount to make the price difference small.

 

[Freddymac2]

I think you are going way too deep into this unit and will end up with nothing!!!!!

 

[dlucy]

Conrad H likes to bump up all caps to a minimum of 35V if the space is available. He spoke to this in the Capacitor Abyss thread. Better build, longer lasting probably and such. It also might let you get to a quantity discount to make the price difference small.

Thanks! That thread has lots of interesting info I hadn't heard before. I gotta revise my BOM....

 

[Blue Shadow]

I know your thread is kinda new, but sooner or later you are going to pull the trigger and then enjoy the results as you learn more and more. I've done a number of projects that would have other parts installed based on what I have learned after doing the project. One that shows up in your list is film caps for stuff below 3µF. But I'm sure the AK crowd is really way overdoing it, but it is a hobby, we are supposed to do that.

 

[Tom B]

I too question some of the replacements.
I like to error on the side of caution, limiting what I replace, especially if they have been working fine for 40 years.
Replacing all of those parts increases the possibility of reversing leads etc causing other problems.
I never replace transistors or diodes/rectifiers unless they are bad. They typically don't have a "Wear or age issue" such as electrolytics.
The only transistors I would replace on your list would be 2sc458's, and only if they are causing big time bias drifts.
I do replace most if not all electrolytics on the PS regulator boards of most units, and sometimes the + and - supplies running on the TO220 style regulators because of the heat that can build up over time. I replace all coupling caps, (small values like 1uf, .47uf, 2.2uf etc)because they have higher ESR than I like. I use a peak atlas Capacitance/ESR tester to validate and match what I put back in. Using the Peak Atlas, I test the other DC filter caps on the boards. If they look fine, they stay. If not they go

And if you do decide to go for this big bang, I suggest you do 1 channel at a time/1 board at a time. This way if you have issues, it will be with a minimal amount of change easily compared to the other untouched side.

 

[janusz1]

Quality of caps matters most. To increase longevity use higher temperature 105C caps and of higher working voltage. In some cases lower ESR would make a difference while in PS higher ripple capability would add to longevity as well. For filtering bypas caps use ceramic x7r series.
Sometimes it's worth replacing electros with film caps - especially in the audio circuit.


cheers,

 

[dlucy]

I know your thread is kinda new, but sooner or later you are going to pull the trigger and then enjoy the results as you learn more and more. I've done a number of projects that would have other parts installed based on what I have learned after doing the project. One that shows up in your list is film caps for stuff below 3µF. But I'm sure the AK crowd is really way overdoing it, but it is a hobby, we are supposed to do that.

Yes, this will be my... sixth? recap or restore or rest-o-mod. It is both rewarding and educational to dig into a piece of gear and restore it to functioning and improve the performance in the process. Thanks for the encouragement. That's one of the things I like most about AK.

Good point about film caps for the lower capacitance values. After reading the thread you pointed to from Conrad, I'm revising the recap BOM above to:

• In general bringing up the minimum voltage of replacement caps to 35 VDC where the difference in price and size are negligible.
• Replace electrolytic caps with a capacitance under 4.7 with film caps instead.
• Replace all tantalum caps with electrolytic or film caps.
• Bump up the voltage of each replaced cap so they will be running at 60-75% of rated voltage when the circuit is operating.

My post here is really intended to develop a clean recap BOM for others doing a recap on the 330A and 330B receivers. I haven't been able to find any such thing here on AK and I'd like to pay back AK for all the help I've received on the Pioneer SX units I've restored recently.

 

[dlucy]

Quality of caps matters most.

Thanks for the good ideas!

I've been really happy with the quality of the caps from Nichicon, so I've been only looking at them for the electrolytics, especially for those in the signal path. MarkTheFixer repeats over and over the virtues of the low leakage KL series from Nichicon and I can't find any other electrolytics which have leakage as low as those, so I've been sticking to just those for signal path caps when the values all line up.

So many people here have recommended Panasonics for general film caps, so I've mostly been choosing those when film caps are called for.

I've seen numerous recommendations for stacked film polypropylenes and, when those are not available, stacked film polyesters when signal path caps are 4.7 uF or lower. The ECQV line from Panasonic is discontinued with no replacements, so I've been looking for WIMA MKP / FKP (stacked polyproylene) and MKS / FKS (stacked polyester) for low-value signal-path caps. The trouble here is the limited lead spacing and those darned-short leads. It looks like Kemet has stacked film caps, too, but I don't know anything about Kemet. Does anyone have pros or cons about using Kemet stacked film caps?

To increase longevity use higher temperature 105C caps and of higher working voltage.

Another good point. I haven't been looking at the temp rating on the caps except in the power supply and on the main amp near any high-wattage resistors or the output transistors. The thread on Capacitor Abyss from ConradH pointed out above has me looking for high voltage caps, but I should add "look for 105C versions when available" to my list of advice.

In some cases lower ESR would make a difference while in PS higher ripple capability would add to longevity as well.

Ok, so I understand about power supply caps and the need or the aim of looking for highest-available ripple to reduce the potential noise coming from the power supply. When I'm choosing replacements for those caps, I look for higher voltage (especially since I'm replacing the rectifiers with modern, ultra fast soft recovery ones) and higher capacitance (which will put higher demands on the transformer, fuses, rectifiers and anything else prior to the filter caps due to inrush current, I know), but I'm not sure where lower ESR makes a difference. help me understand that so I can further tune my advice list.

For filtering bypas caps use ceramic x7r series.

Ok, now I'm really interested. I understand signal path ceramic caps should be chosen for their C0G NP0 dielectric, but I have no idea when the other dielectrics are best. X7R is best for bypass caps?

Sometimes it's worth replacing electros with film caps - especially in the audio circuit.

If I understand correctly, this is mainly due to lower (or no) leakage in the film caps versus that being common in electrolytics. Is that right?

 

[dlucy]

I too question some of the replacements.

Excellent. Thanks for the pointers. I'll share my thinking and please reply where I've gone astray. I'm no E.E. and I'm looking to improve my reasoning while tinkering at a hobbyist level.

I like to error on the side of caution, limiting what I replace, especially if they have been working fine for 40 years.
Replacing all of those parts increases the possibility of reversing leads etc causing other problems.

I never replace transistors or diodes/rectifiers unless they are bad. They typically don't have a "Wear or age issue" such as electrolytics.
The only transistors I would replace on your list would be 2sc458's, and only if they are causing big time bias drifts.

I can definitely understand that approach. In these cases I'm OK with making a few mistakes and learning as I go. I've also had my first "I should have fixed that while I was in there" kicking myself episode, so I'm erring on the side of "fix it while it is open, while the soldering iron is still hot, and the while the parts are $0.11 each...."

The list starting off this thread is also meant as a recap BOM for others, so I've listed the components:

• which are known to fail with age (the electrolytic caps)
• which are known to be poor choices (like tantalums, under-valued resistors or transistors)
• which are known to be noisy transistors

like the other recap BOMs include.

I also included diodes as I've read through (and had to replace) a half dozen Zeners due to age-related failure or being-overtaxed failure. These have often been failing performance versus outright failure, so I've been replacing all of them as a preventative measure since these are like $0.06 each. You're right, these replacements are not absolutely necessary and I should move them to a separate "if you need it, here's the crossref" list.

The signal path transistors are on the list since so many other receivers suffer noise from these-era transistors. I've replaced these en masse since the modern equivalents should be superior, at least in the low noise department, and the replacement cost is tiny $0.26 each and I want to yield a rock-solid unit on its first bench visit. But you're right, the more replacements increases the chance for mistakes.

The output transistors do cost real money, something just under $6 each, and they need to be matched, so that choice doesn't fit my own logic. I'll put those on the "just here for your reference" list instead of the "always replace during recap" list.

Good points. Thanks!

 

[Rob DeFries]

And the HKs are known to have excellent sound. We'll let dlucy tell us what mouser gets for all those parts together.

Do the caps.... period. How much is the 330 B worth? How much time are you going to spend, how much will the parts cost? How much will it be worth after "restoring" the thing?
Even as a hobby project, one should consider the "use" of all the good intentions. If it works, don't fix it. And I've read too many "good intentions, wrong expectation" posts already.

I don't think Harman/Kardon did much wrong designing these receivers, so why in earths name does one want to put new (Fairchild) transistors in? Restoring is all about originality.

Proud owner of a H/K 330C (amongst other items)

 

[Blue Shadow]

It isn't up to me as to what someone wants to do to their gear. I see lots of stuff that is over the top, over the value of the unit and so on. But it is up to the owner what they want to do. Replacing all that extra stuff is just time and money. Probably be fun, too since my nice soldering iron is new to me. Gonna use it today to put $100 per cap coupling caps in a tube preamp to make it sound terrible until it breaks in based on the last time I did that for a friend. It is what he wants. The caps do sound better after a dozen hours or so. Won't be while I'm there working on it but we will have fun, soldering while wearing shorts, enjoying some Primos and watching some olympics. To each his own.

 

[Rob DeFries]

I do a lot of work on amps. Sometimes for fun or to see where it can get me. But that involves changing of the whole "structure" of amps. Not just swapping out parts.
It's been my work, since 1980.
If one wants to spend $300 on a $30 amp, go ahead.

 

[Blue Shadow]

I do a lot of work on amps. Sometimes for fun or to see where it can get me. But that involves changing of the whole "structure" of amps. Not just swapping out parts.
It's been my work, since 1980.
If one wants to spend $300 on a $30 amp, go ahead.

Doubt the parts are anywhere near 300 and his time is his time, probably will do this in his free time which could have value, I don't know. Like playing golf, paying good money to walk around out on the grass.

This is very true. The HK330 is a terrible amplifier compared to modern offerings, even the very cheapest low budget units. Hissy, hummy, noisy. All that even fully restored - parts swapping doesn't do any good, it's like polishing a turd. Simply an archaic design with no real hi-fi properties.

But it sounds good. So what you think doesn't matter to the OP.

 

[dlucy]

This is very true. The HK330 is a terrible amplifier compared to modern offerings, even the very cheapest low budget units. Hissy, hummy, noisy. All that even fully restored - parts swapping doesn't do any good, it's like polishing a turd. Simply an archaic design with no real hi-fi properties.

It's very cool that AK exists and that someone, like me, looking for help and advice, can get so much input even when just asking "am I missing anything important in this recap list."

I respect your opinion about the HK330B, even though it differs significantly from mine. I quite like the 330B, I've purchased three of them now, and I expect that I'll buy more if I encounter them again at bargain prices. Putting time and a little money into them is easy, fun and educational for me. Even getting input, ranging from advice and scorn, from others here on AK is valuable and educational.

Is it a turd? No.

Is it archaic with no hi-fi properties? I guess that depends on your definitions of either. For me, its discrete transistor and capacitor-coupled output is quite good for that late date and a very good hi-fidelity-at-low-cost design. For me it sounds great for a low power amp. You're welcome to your differing opinion, though.

Is it hissy, hummy and noisy? Not really, but that will be quite different with modern semiconductors and higher-value passives.

The point of this thread was to develop a baseline of recapping and/or restoring BOM for me and for others. You've stated now that you don't think it's worth it, but doesn't help the point of the thread. Is there something you know or have heard of that would constructively contribute to this recapping BOM thread? If so, please share it. If you just want to tell me and the others who might be trying to repair or restore a HK330B "it isn't worth it", then you've already shared that.

 

[Hak Foo]

If you can make basically a complete BOM, the next interesting step would be to design some PCBs that were circuit-wise equivalent to the old ones.. Then, people could basically build a new unit from a kit!

I always wondered how far off the enthusiast community was from being able to build a vintage-style reciever from scratch. It seems like the real limiting factors would be cosmetic stuff-- making a case that looks like a 330B, for example, would probably cost more in short runs than all the electronics put together.

 

[dlucy]

If you can make basically a complete BOM, the next interesting step would be to design some PCBs that were circuit-wise equivalent to the old ones.. Then, people could basically build a new unit from a kit!

I always wondered how far off the enthusiast community was from being able to build a vintage-style reciever from scratch. It seems like the real limiting factors would be cosmetic stuff-- making a case that looks like a 330B, for example, would probably cost more in short runs than all the electronics put together.

Recapping is only replacing 1/5 or so of the components. The resistors, coils, variable coils, diodes, transistors, lamps, sockets, potenitometers, non-electrolytic caps, jacks, fuse holders, transformer (big expense), tuning dial, etc. would cost a lot. It certainly could be done, though.

 

[NAD80]

dlucy may the rework turn out great. What you put together as a BOM may help someone in the future. zoom just likes to rain on the parade of the day. You do what you want with your gear. Me I have to rework a Nad 3140,4020,1300. Troubleshoot a adcom GTP 400 (blows fuses).

 

[KentTeffeteller]

I love the old HK 330C, a superb sounding receiver. I'll take a little hiss over unmusical reproduction. Enjoy her restoration.

 

[dlucy]

The parts have arrived and now the old parts are coming off and being measured....