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Recommendations for a DSD-capable DAC in the $1K-1500 range?

cocoonbeat

cocoonbeat

Member
Currently I am using two different DACs connected via USB from my PC running JRiver MC28. I'm pleased with the performance of my Rega DAC-R which handles all PCM conversion, and my OPPO UDP-205 serves as an auxiliary DAC to convert DSD files which the Rega cannot do. I've been thinking it would be better to have one single DAC to handle both PCM and DSD, to replace the Rega while keeping the OPPO for all the other great things it does (I really love the 205 and was lucky to get one before the prices on the resale market went sky-high). I suppose I could sell the Rega and use the OPPO as my one all-purpose DAC, but I'd prefer to have a dedicated component that outperforms the 205 as a DAC.

I would like my new DAC to convert DSD direct to analog rather than converting it to PCM first. Is this feature uncommon and only found in prohibitively expensive DACs? How much difference does it make in terms of sound quality? I'd think it would be preferable to do the analog conversion without the intermediary PCM conversion, yes?

Other than that I don't have any essential features in mind. I suppose a USB input and RCA stereo outputs are standard. I don't plan on playing super hi-res files: 24/192 PCM and DSD128 are the highest resolutions I would likely want to play. I don't care about surround, my system is stereo only and any surround files in my library are converted to two-channel in JRiver before outputting via USB to the DAC.

I'm not planning on making a purchase right away but this is something to put on my wish list, for late 2022 perhaps. And if there is something really magical that exceeds my stated budget I might stretch it to $2K at the max.
 
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Look for DACs that offer DSD direct mode. RME ADI-2 has it. You will have no volume control though. Keep in mind that true 1-bit converters are not really used in practice these days, so DSD will still be converted to some intermediate format with several bits on a DAC chip, even in DSD direct mode.Frankly I don’t think conversion to PCM matters as it uses a high enough sampling rate and bit depth to preserve all information that is contained in the incoming DSD data.
 
gvl said:
Look for DACs that offer DSD direct mode. RME ADI-2 has it. You will have no volume control though. Keep in mind that true 1-bit converters are not really used in practice these days, so DSD will still be converted to some intermediate format with several bits on a DAC chip, even in DSD direct mode.Frankly I don’t think conversion to PCM matters as it uses a high enough sampling rate and bit depth to preserve all information that is contained in the incoming DSD data.
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I absolutely agree.
The most recent RME ADI-2 DAC has been upgraded to a higher resolution AKM (and now ESS due to the AKM fab fire) chip that performs excellently, and it comes with a wonderful array of playback capabilities and excellent support. Highly recommended.
 
gvl said:
Look for DACs that offer DSD direct mode. RME ADI-2 has it. You will have no volume control though. Keep in mind that true 1-bit converters are not really used in practice these days, so DSD will still be converted to some intermediate format with several bits on a DAC chip, even in DSD direct mode.Frankly I don’t think conversion to PCM matters as it uses a high enough sampling rate and bit depth to preserve all information that is contained in the incoming DSD data.
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I don't need or want digital volume control. I will output the analog signal via unbalanced RCA to my Brio and control the volume from there. I can see on the RME ADI 2 you'd need it if there is a headphone output. Looking at the unit it seems packed with a lot of features I would not be inclined to use. If I learned to use the EQ and filters in a wise and moderate way I can see the benefit of having them. I'm someone who, given the opportunity to tweak with the sound, will spend hours agonizing over what setting I like best. Looks like a fantastic and excellent DAC though, I read the measurements on Audio Science Review.
 
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cocoonbeat said:
I don't need or want digital volume control. I will output the analog signal via unbalanced RCA to my Brio and control the volume from there. I can see on the RME ADI 2 you'd need it if there is a headphone output. Looking at the unit it seems packed with a lot of features I would not be inclined to use. If I learned to use the EQ and filters in a wise and moderate way I can see the benefit of having them. I'm someone who, given the opportunity to tweak with the sound, will spend hours agonizing over what setting I like best. Looks like a fantastic and excellent DAC though, I read the measurements on Audio Science Review.
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Surprisingly, it's pretty easy to become accustomed to using the feature set. The filters/equalizers/tone controls can be turned on and off remotely, and capabilities like an actual functional Loudness Control have been surprisingly valuable. Other features like "auto ranging" where the DAC adjusts its output scaling to maximize the performance as you adjust the volume are also surprisingly good. RME are very diligent in keeping the software up to date and will incorporate useful suggestions from their users into the firmware. Almost all of my local audiophile cohort have made this their DAC of choice as a consequence of listening to my system. The digital volume control is in the remote, and you can lock the main output so that it no longer responds so that the remote will only adjust the headphone output.
I actually drive the Benchmark amps directly using the XLR outputs and use the volume control for both the headphone and line levels. When a headphone is plugged in the line is automatically disabled and the unit switches to the headphone function where it remembers the separate headphone volume setting from past usage.
 
In a market where there are so many choices, good to excellent DACs, the feature set is one way to narrow my choices down, when I can't hear it until I buy it. I just tend to shy away from all the bells and whistles. I don't need or want a headphone amp, volume control, EQ and lots of filter options. Amir at ASR noted that the menu system on this model is quite complex and difficult to navigate. As someone who's used a standalone DAW with a small screen and menus to change all kinds of settings and been fatigued by going down the rabbit holes that such a setup presents, I prefer a simpler design. I like a screen that shows the bit depth and sample rate but there's too much else I don't need here. If RME offered a more basic DAC I might consider it. They're marketing to a user who likes to tweak things and that's not me, I'd rather find a filter I like and stick with it and not have the opportunity to keep fussing with the sound and just enjoy the music.

Since I have a very highly rated sigma-delta DAC in the OPPO 205 with an ES9038PRO chip for stereo and another for surround (which I don't use), and after trying to compare the sound of my 205 and my Rega DAC and not hearing much of a difference, I now think I might want to look at the R-2R ladder DACS and I'm considering the Denafrips Pontus II.
 
I thought you were looking for a DAC that doesn’t convert DSD to PCM, the Pontus ain’t it.
 
gvl said:
I thought you were looking for a DAC that doesn’t convert DSD to PCM, the Pontus ain’t it.
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Really. I had no idea. I thought it was native DSD capable...

Specifications
R-2R DAC
Proprietary R2R + DSD Architecture
True balanced 24BIT R2R + 6BIT DSD (32 steps FIR Filters)
Native DSD decoding with 0.01% precision resistors

PROPRIETARY, STATE-OF-THE-ART USB INTERFACE
The PONTUS is equipped with the proprietary USB Audio Solution, powered by STM32F446 Advanced AMR Based MCU. DENAFRIPS redesigned and optimized circuitry, allow the DAC to be used as high-end DAC with computers / streamers. It supports 24bit/1536kHz PCM data stream, and native decoding of DSD up to DSD1024.

* Adaptive FIFO Memory Cache Architecture transfers audio data input to the high-speed RAM buffer. Using the highly stable active crystal clock signals generated within, the audio data is extracted from RAM, converted to i2S protocol, and transmitted to the R2R DAC for DA conversion....
• Native DSD decoding with 0.01% precision resisters.
​
So have these three reviews got the facts wrong?
 
I'll take it back, looks like they do have a trick up their sleeve to process DSD w/out full blown conversion to PCM. No idea if it's good or not, but I'll wager a dollar this is not the best way to handle DSD D/A conversion. Also, at that price I'd just grab the RME DAC and be done, better deal all around. But I know R2R is big here, so whatever floats your boat.
 
gvl said:
I'll take it back, looks like they do have a trick up their sleeve to process DSD w/out full blown conversion to PCM. No idea if it's good or not, but I'll wager a dollar this is not the best way to handle DSD D/A conversion. Also, at that price I'd just grab the RME DAC and be done, better deal all around. But I know R2R is big here, so whatever floats your boat.
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I messaged Denafrips with the question on how they handle the DSD conversion, will post the reply here.

MEANWHILE I am now looking at the more expensive but more appealing Holo Spring 3, reviewed here. They do actual NOS not pseudo-NOS like Denafrips and true native DSD. The top level Holo Spring V3 KTE has an enhanced USB module which supplant the recommendation to add a DDC to the Pontus II. Measures well and sounds great according to GoldenSounds.
 
cocoonbeat said:
They do actual NOS not pseudo-NOS like Denafrips and true native DSD.
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Why does it matter?

Grab a Topping E30 for under $200 shipped if you can find it as AKM chip shortages seem to have affected its availability It has DSD-direct mode and a good device all around. Note it's known to have compatibility issues with certain SPDIF sources, like TVs and CD players. USB should be fine.

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gvl said:
Why does it matter?

Grab a Topping E30 for under $200 shipped if you can find it as AKM chip shortages seem to have affected its availability It has DSD-direct mode and a good device all around. Note it's known to have compatibility issues with certain SPDIF sources, like TVs and CD players. USB should be fine.
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I'll mull it over... :rolleyes:
 
gvl said:
I'll take it back, looks like they do have a trick up their sleeve to process DSD w/out full blown conversion to PCM. No idea if it's good or not, but I'll wager a dollar this is not the best way to handle DSD D/A conversion.
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I received the following from Denafrips this morning:

Our R-2R networks can directly convert PCM signals with a sampling rate of up to 24.576M, and can directly convert native 1-bit DSD signals with a sampling rate from DSD64-DSD512. However, the result of the direct conversion sound quality is not ideal, as there will be a large digital noise floor, so Direct conversion is not the best way in our opinion.

We use internal processing technology similar to TI DSD1700. We make use of analog FIR filter to convert to 6BIT multi-level DSD signal through FPGA, prior sending the signals to the R-2R networks. This is not because of the limitation or adaptation to suit the R-2R networks, but to have the smallest digital conversion noise, and the sound is certainly better.

Hope this clarifies.

Yours sincerely,

Vincent Ong

VINSHINE AUDIO PTE. LTD. (SINGAPORE)
​
Well, it doesn't exactly clarify (maybe TI DSD1700 or FIR filter means something to you if you're better educated than me). But there you have it. It may well be "not the best way to handle DSD D/A conversion," I don't know.
 
Frank Sol said:
Very good DAC :thumbsup:

Many Audiophiles shy away from it because of the price tag
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I certainly shy away from it because of the price tag (referring to Topping E30). I can see buying it as an entry level DAC, but I can't imagine it would be worth buying as a replacement for my $1100 Rega DAC or my OPPO UDP-205.
 
Sidebar: I have experience with Parasound P6's DSD DAC, OPPO-205's DSD DAC, and Marantz NR1200's DSD DAC. Since I have the OPPO configured for 5.1 bass management it does not support direct DSD conversion, and since the Parasound has no HDMI input it does not support DSD output from my Universal Player. Thus, my only means to direct DSD conversion is via the Marantz which has an HDMI input. The sound of stereo SACD/DSD from the Marantz's DAC is very lifelike. It makes me think buying the Marantz just for its DAC at $700 is a great value.
 
@cocoonbeat For what it's worth, I auditioned the Rega DAC R for a few weeks some years back. The ARES II is much preferred to me than the Rega. I USB out from a Mac Mini using Tidal, Qobuz and my library though Amarra Luxe or Audirvana apps.
 
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