Recommendations for a DSD-capable DAC in the $1K-1500 range?

[SterlingOne]

In a market where there are so many choices, good to excellent DACs, the feature set is one way to narrow my choices down, when I can't hear it until I buy it. I just tend to shy away from all the bells and whistles. I don't need or want a headphone amp, volume control, EQ and lots of filter options. Amir at ASR noted that the menu system on this model is quite complex and difficult to navigate. As someone who's used a standalone DAW with a small screen and menus to change all kinds of settings and been fatigued by going down the rabbit holes that such a setup presents, I prefer a simpler design. I like a screen that shows the bit depth and sample rate but there's too much else I don't need here. If RME offered a more basic DAC I might consider it. They're marketing to a user who likes to tweak things and that's not me, I'd rather find a filter I like and stick with it and not have the opportunity to keep fussing with the sound and just enjoy the music.

Since I have a very highly rated sigma-delta DAC in the OPPO 205 with an ES9038PRO chip for stereo and another for surround, , (which I don't use), and after trying to compare the sound of my 205 and my Rega DAC and not hearing much of a difference, I now think I might want to look at the R-2R ladder DACS and I'm considering the Denafrips Pontus II.

I have an OPPO-205, Parasound P6 Preamp/DAC, and a Marantz NR1200 Receiver. All have DSD DACs but the most useful is the Marantz's DAC, which receives DSD via HDMI connection to source component. The OPPO also does that but it looses its bass multi-channel bass management function when set to direct DSD conversion. The Marantz's AKM DAC seems to sounds lifelike receiving DSD from stereo SACDs.

 

[stoutblock]

You have to try hard to buy a bad DAC with all the excellent options these days. Prices typically vary more for the PS and output circuits rather than the DAC processor itself. I picked up the Gustard x26 pro recently and its performance floors me. Depending on the system, Gustard makes some lower priced models (x-16) that are excellent, but with more modest PS and outputs and may actually sound the same on most systems. Topping also makes some modest DACs that are an exceptional value.

 

[cocoonbeat]

You have to try hard to buy a bad DAC with all the excellent options these days. Prices typically vary more for the PS and output circuits rather than the DAC processor itself. I picked up the Gustard x26 pro recently and its performance floors me. Depending on the system, Gustard makes some lower priced models (x-16) that are excellent, but with more modest PS and outputs and may actually sound the same on most systems. Topping also makes some modest DACs that are an exceptional value.

I considered the Topping E90 SE (not sure on that model # but it sells for $900) and was strongly inclined to get the Gustard X26 but even though the performance is likely as great as claimed by those who've owned it, it might not be much better or different than my OPPO UDP-205 which uses the same ES9038 chip. That's why I'm wanting to check out the NOS and R2R DACs. But at twice the price for the one I really want (Holo Spring 3 KTE), I may end up going for the Gustard which is within my original allotted budget.

 

[stoutblock]

I considered the Topping E90 SE (not sure on that model # but it sells for $900) and was strongly inclined to get the Gustard X26 but even though the performance is likely as great as claimed by those who've owned it, it might not be much better or different than my OPPO UDP-205 which uses the same ES9038 chip. That's why I'm wanting to check out the NOS and R2R DACs. But at twice the price for the one I really want (Holo Spring 3 KTE), I may end up going for the Gustard which is within my original allotted budget.

I also had an Oppo UDP-205 that I used for a couple years before I bought the Gustard x26 pro. I like the ES9038 chip a lot and really think they get the most out of a digital file (plus play DSD natively). The problem is the Oppo got to be worth so much and I hardly ever used the spinner. I did not use the surround sound processor either and really only needed a good stereo DAC. I also owned a Modwright Elyse DAC which I really liked but it did not play DSD files which I had a lot of. The Modwright has a modest DAC processor but the real magic comes from its awesome PS and tube output circuits. I decided to sell the Oppo which gave me enough coin to buy a decent ES9038 DAC to replace it and my experience with the Elyse gave me the insight to respect the PS and output circuit in my selection.

The X26 pro has dual ES9038pro chips along with a really good internal clock. It also has a very good dual power supply with oversized filters. The out put is very well design with discrete circuits along with a DSP with Gustard’s own proprietary filters. It is one of the few ES DACs that does not have the standard response hump they are know for. I liked it so much I decided I really had no use for the Elyse and reluctantly sold it also. Only issue is it runs in class A so gets a bit warm.

I seriously considered an R2R DAC but the complications required for the circuits on the good ones is simply too expensive IMHO. At any price point, I think a good ESS DAC performs better.

 

[gvl]

It is one of the few ES DACs that does not have the standard response hump they are know for.

The hump has been solved in a number of recent inexpensive ESS based DACs. Even in those that have the issue its audibility is questionable. I have a couple of DACs with and w/out the hump, can't tell a difference.

 

[cocoonbeat]

I didn't know anything about the 'hump' that you mention. Perhaps if it were pointed out to me and I listened hard I could perceive it but perhaps not. I doubt if I will ever sell my 205 though with the market price it is tempting. I use the DVD-A, Blu-ray, SACD transport and watch videos, it's such a magnificent workhorse of a machine, I'd likely be disappointed by anything I bought as a replacement. But if I were to get the Gustard then I probably wouldn't need the 205 as a DAC anymore...

 

[stoutblock]

The hump has been solved in a number of recent inexpensive ESS based DACs. Even in those that have the issue its audibility is questionable. I have a couple of DACs with and w/out the hump, can't tell a difference.

Totally agree. I really like the detail of the ES9038 chip and I don’t find it fatiguing like the earlier ESS offerings I have heard. I still find even it has a bit of an edge on top that I notice with some tracks. The Oppo sounded great but still had this edge to it at least in my system. I just assumed this is part of the hump tech types measure. I never hear this edge on the early well executed burr-brown DACs but then they also have less detail. I also don’t hear this edge with the Gustard x26 pro yet it easily retains all the detail and space elements I enjoy with the ES9038pro chip. I truly think the the x26 pro is one of the best in both worlds, digital accuracy and detail with some analog smoothness.

I’m sure there are some R2R DACs that come close or better but are quite a it more expensive.

I didn't know anything about the 'hump' that you mention. Perhaps if it were pointed out to me and I listened hard I could perceive it but perhaps not. I doubt if I will ever sell my 205 though with the market price it is tempting. I use the DVD-A, Blu-ray, SACD transport and watch videos, it's such a magnificent workhorse of a machine, I'd likely be disappointed by anything I bought as a replacement. But if I were to get the Gustard then I probably wouldn't need the 205 as a DAC anymore...

I never used the video or HT functions of my Oppo. I did play my many SACDs on the Oppo but then I converted them to DSD files a couple years back and simply stopped using the spinner. It was a good move for me to sell it to someone who used these functions. I do think the x26 pro sounds better as a DAC than the Oppo.

 

[gvl]

I didn't know anything about the 'hump' that you mention. Perhaps if it were pointed out to me and I listened hard I could perceive it but perhaps not. I doubt if I will ever sell my 205 though with the market price it is tempting. I use the DVD-A, Blu-ray, SACD transport and watch videos, it's such a magnificent workhorse of a machine, I'd likely be disappointed by anything I bought as a replacement. But if I were to get the Gustard then I probably wouldn't need the 205 as a DAC anymore...

The "hump" is an anomaly that shows up in certain measurement plots of some DACs based on ESS chips and basically indicates a somewhat elevated level of harmonic distortions of signals at mid-levels. It is there due to design issues in the analog I/V conversion stage right after the DAC chip. No one definitely confirmed it is audible as of yet, but in theory it could have an effect with certain types of music.

 

[SterlingOne]

Well, for sure, I'm holding on to my OPPO-205, since it's the only means I have to enjoy 5.1 SACDs, via RCA connection to a 5.1 analog multi-channel preamplifier. I suppose someday I will get a digital pre-pro which has an HDMI input to enjoy 5.1 SACDs but for now the OPPO serves the role of pre-pro. Also, the OPPO will play data disks gaplessly, that's essential for music such as The Firebird, which my Sony UBP-X800M2 will not play gaplessly. At any rate, the OPPO was bargain priced when sold new. No surprise that it is now selling for what the market will shell out. And I think they will continue to shell out since there's only one newly manufactured player out there now which has RCA multi-channel output and its quality seems suspect to me.

 

[wyn palmer]

Look for DACs that offer DSD direct mode. RME ADI-2 has it. You will have no volume control though. Keep in mind that true 1-bit converters are not really used in practice these days, so DSD will still be converted to some intermediate format with several bits on a DAC chip, even in DSD direct mode.Frankly I don’t think conversion to PCM matters as it uses a high enough sampling rate and bit depth to preserve all information that is contained in the incoming DSD data.

I concur. I have the pro version (with an ADC). Recently the ADI-2 has changed from an AKM to an ESS DAC due to the AKM shortage, but the specs are identical and I was unable to hear any difference.
However, as you stated the OP will have to use an external preamp or something similar if he wants volume control with DSD direct, or he can use the ADI-2 to do the conversion to high rate PCM, which to my ears is inaudible, having done both at home.

 

[wyn palmer]

The "hump" is an anomaly that shows up in certain measurement plots of some DACs based on ESS chips and basically indicates a somewhat elevated level of harmonic distortions of signals at mid-levels. It is there due to design issues in the analog I/V conversion stage right after the DAC chip. No one definitely confirmed it is audible as of yet, but in theory it could have an effect with certain types of music.

Actually it's intermodulation, not harmonic distortion. In essence the "hump" appears above the noise floor as the generator output gets higher. The "fixes" I've seen seem to raise the overall noise floor but eliminates the hump, and involves modifying the V-I converter. Usually this kind of bump suggests that the issue is something to do with the spur reduction technique in the modulator which spreads the spurs out, but who the heck knows in the ESS design.

 

[gvl]

Actually it's intermodulation, not harmonic distortion. In essence the "hump" appears above the noise floor as the generator output gets higher. The "fixes" I've seen seem to raise the overall noise floor but eliminates the hump, and involves modifying the V-I converter. Usually this kind of bump suggests that the issue is something to do with the spur reduction technique in the modulator which spreads the spurs out, but who the heck knows in the ESS design.

The plot above is indeed for IMD, however the root cause is non-linearity of the system which surely results in the rise of THD as well. There is a lengthy thread at ASR with technical details from someone trying to fix the Khadas Tone Board. In a nutshell ESS chips spit out a bunch of common mode distortion on its output and special care needs to be taken so that they cancel out in the I/V converter opamp circuitry. Several latest DACs from Topping and others take care of it completely whle not elevating the noise floor. In fact Topping D90SE is the best measuring DAC ever on ASR in all categories and it's based on an ESS chip.

 

[oscarinovp]

I have similar requirements for DAC upgrade to the UDP-205. Only I want it to be a tubed DAC. Any such creature?

 

[gvl]

I absolutely agree.
The most recent RME ADI-2 DAC has been upgraded to a higher resolution AKM (and now ESS due to the AKM fab fire) chip that performs excellently, and it comes with a wonderful array of playback capabilities and excellent support. Highly recommended.

It just occurred to me that DSD direct is an AKM feature, I checked the ADI-2 DAC manual and in fact this setting is unavailable on the latest units that are using ESS chips. Not that it matters but an interesting detail nevertheless.

 

[gvl]

I have similar requirements for DAC upgrade to the UDP-205. Only I want it to be a tubed DAC. Any such creature?

Any tubed DAC will be a downgrade from the UDP-205, likely expensive too.

 

[stoutblock]

I have seen ESS DACs that reduced the “hump” but the Gustard x26 pro eliminated it.

 

[Danddd]

I also had an Oppo UDP-205 that I used for a couple years before I bought the Gustard x26 pro. I like the ES9038 chip a lot and really think they get the most out of a digital file (plus play DSD natively). The problem is the Oppo got to be worth so much and I hardly ever used the spinner. I did not use the surround sound processor either and really only needed a good stereo DAC. I also owned a Modwright Elyse DAC which I really liked but it did not play DSD files which I had a lot of. The Modwright has a modest DAC processor but the real magic comes from its awesome PS and tube output circuits. I decided to sell the Oppo which gave me enough coin to buy a decent ES9038 DAC to replace it and my experience with the Elyse gave me the insight to respect the PS and output circuit in my selection.

The X26 pro has dual ES9038pro chips along with a really good internal clock. It also has a very good dual power supply with oversized filters. The out put is very well design with discrete circuits along with a DSP with Gustard’s own proprietary filters. It is one of the few ES DACs that does not have the standard response hump they are know for. I liked it so much I decided I really had no use for the Elyse and reluctantly sold it also. Only issue is it runs in class A so gets a bit warm.

I seriously considered an R2R DAC but the complications required for the circuits on the good ones is simply too expensive IMHO. At any price point, I think a good ESS DAC performs better.

i auditioned the Gustard X16 and found it very detailed and a large soundstage. Definitely non fatiguing. That being said, I also found it lackluster after a while. Since Amazon gave me until 2/1/22 to return it, I decided to try the Denafrips Ares II R2R DAC at $850 delivered. I listened to the two DACs side by side. The Ares is one of the best audio upgrades I’ve done in years. So if you’re looking for an affordable R2R Dac, check the reviews online and here on AK.

 

[stoutblock]

i auditioned the Gustard X16 and found it very detailed and a large soundstage. Definitely non fatiguing. That being said, I also found it lackluster after a while. Since Amazon gave me until 2/1/22 to return it, I decided to try the Denafrips Ares II R2R DAC at $850 delivered. I listened to the two DACs side by side. The Ares is one of the best audio upgrades I’ve done in years. So if you’re looking for an affordable R2R Dac, check the reviews online and here on AK.

I spent some time with the x16 and to my ears, in my system is sounded like the UDP-205 which is pretty darn good. The x26 pro just seemed to get a even more from the digital files and lays them out in an obvious soundstage. Very layered with good isolation. All with not a hint of too much of anything. I have not spent time with the Aries II but I did spend some quality time with a Pontus II and was extremely impressed.

 

[Danddd]

I spent some time with the x16 and to my ears, in my system is sounded like the UDP-205 which is pretty darn good. The x26 pro just seemed to get a even more from the digital files and lays them out in an obvious soundstage. Very layered with good isolation. All with not a hint of too much of anything. I have not spent time with the Aries II but I did spend some quality time with a Pontus II and was extremely impressed.

In my system, the Sonus faber Liutos are detailed and a bit laid back and airy. So I think the X16 isn't the right fit. I've heard some forward sounding speakers where I think the X16 would shine. Just out of curiosity, how would you compare the Pontus to the X26?

 

[stoutblock]

In my system, the Sonus faber Liutos are detailed and a bit laid back and airy. So I think the X16 isn't the right fit. I've heard some forward sounding speakers where I think the X16 would shine. Just out of curiosity, how would you compare the Pontus to the X26?

I would have to spend some more time with the Pontus and the x26 in the same system to reach a conclusion but they are surprisingly similar. Two completely different approaches towards the same goal. I don’t think you could go wrong with either.