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Rectilinear III and DQ-10 specialists - what mid?

Saint Johnny said:
Here are a couple of close-up pics, showing my fabric, non-doped surrounds.
Click to expand...
I'll try and add a bit of information (confusion?) to this discussion. My spare pair of mids, which I picked up when my originals crapped out and were being repaired, look exactly like those in your posted pic......fabric, non-doped surround. The number on the back is 5061/M8. Those exact mids are also in my pair of Low Boys (two rear controls).
In my High Boys (only one tweeter control), the mids are slightly different. The whizzer cone is not as large in diameter, but seems to protrude more from the larger cone. After reinstalling them (a real pain), I'm not about to check their model numbers. And my camera is non-functional, so I can't take pics, but I did look at the Dutch website and found the 5080 to be an exact match, at least visually. The date on the site says they are from "1969," which would be correct for this particular Highboy version.
There........I'm glad this is all crystal clear now. :scratch2:
 
To add more confusion, I've seen all three of the whizzer types in the Highboys, and I've also taken them apart to draw up crossover schematics. As far as I can tell, there was no correlation whatsoever between different midranges and the Rectilinear crossover re-design.

The only Philips midranges I've seen with rubber surrounds didn't have the whizzer cones (the W8 version), and were in a pair of DQ-10's and in a pair of Ambient speakers.

The Whizzer cones I've seen in the Rectilinear have had alnico and ferrite magnets, untreated paper surrounds, treated paper accordion surrounds, and untreated yellow fabric surrounds. I believe they were the 3500, 5060, and 5061, in that order, all of them the M8 version. I'm not positive, though, and like joelongwood, I'm not eager to open up the plastic casing anytime soon to confirm--they're a real pain to reassemble!
 
Couple of shots of my highboy midrange driver.

Cheers, Snade

highboy_midrange_driver.jpg


highboy_midrange_driver_2.jpg
 
Snade said:
Couple of shots of my highboy midrange driver.
Click to expand...

Those kind of look like yours, Saint Johnny.

I am going to have one of my Alnico mids out over the next couple of weeks and will post the model number (Philips AD350x/M8?) in due course to this thread.
 
I think I have a very early Highboy (1967 or thereabouts), with mids that look identical to the 5080 on the Dutch site. My tweeters are all square framed, while most of the Highboys I've seen have round tweeter frames. I got them from a dealer who said he brought them into his store in NYC when they first came out, and vowed to never let them go because they sounded so good. He kept them for close to 40 years when he finally decided to sell. :D
Just as an aside, when my mids died I replaced them with the spares (5061) I picked up on eBay. When my originals returned from being repaired, I put one in and did a side by side comparison with the replacement. For the life of me, going back and forth numerous times with different music, I couldn't hear the slightest difference. Maybe it's my hearing, or maybe they are truly interchangeable. :confused:
 
joelongwood said:
Just as an aside, when my mids died I replaced them with the spares (5061) I picked up on eBay. When my originals returned from being repaired, I put one in and did a side by side comparison with the replacement. For the life of me, going back and forth numerous times with different music, I couldn't hear the slightest difference. Maybe it's my hearing, or maybe they are truly interchangeable.
Click to expand...
My ears are totally off spec too, Joe, but I believe it was GordonW who stated in an earlier thread that the AD5061 was more efficient, and therefore "louder", than its predecessors (AD 5060, etc.), and advised to simply turn down the rear tone control(s) to turn the mid down a tad.

Best regards,
 
From what I remember from my old catalogs, all the /M models have the whizzer cones. The /W models did not. These were woofers. The /SQ models were slightly smaller and did not have whizzer cones. These are not good replacements since their lower range was very limited. I still have 2 of the 6.5" models. These were the AD7060/M4 and had a simple corrugated paper surround with whizzer cones. By the way, I think the main difference between the 60 and 61 models was that the 61 had a slightly higher temperature voice coil.

Fernando
 
Replacing Philips AD3500M - whizzer cone issue

Fernando said:
From what I remember from my old catalogs, all the /M models have the whizzer cones. The /W models did not. These were woofers. The /SQ models were slightly smaller and did not have whizzer cones. These are not good replacements since their lower range was very limited. I still have 2 of the 6.5" models. These were the AD7060/M4 and had a simple corrugated paper surround with whizzer cones. By the way, I think the main difference between the 60 and 61 models was that the 61 had a slightly higher temperature voice coil.

Fernando
Click to expand...

Since some of you have some knowledge of these old Philips midrange speakers, I have a time-critical question. I have a pair of Rectilinear III highboys with one troubled midrange (rubbing voice coil at low frequencies). I have spotted a pair of AD5600's at a hifi store to use as a replacement, but not the M version. That is, they have NO WHIZZER CONE, which the originals do have. Should this make much of a difference? Should I hold out for replacements with the whizzer cone or could I compromise with the hi freq. adjustment pot on the speaker cabinet? These replacements won't last long, so what do you think?
 
My concern with the AD5060/SQ as a replacement for an AD5060/W has nothing to do with the whizzer cone, but with the driver characteristics. I have an old Philips 1973 book with some limited specs. The basic AD5060/W was a 5” driver with a resonance of 50 Hz. In a Rectilinear enclosure it was probably closer to 100Hz. The M version was not much different. The SQ version was slightly smaller, more like a 4.5 incher with a lighter cone and a small subenclosure. The resonance specification is 210 Hz. The resulting amplitude and phase of this driver in the lower crossover region is quite different from what the crossover designer intended, and may result in improper blending between the woofer and mid. (a large suckout). You may be better off with a newer Seas or Peerless 5” paper cone driver.

Fernando
 
Last week I found this interesting little Philips book from 1969 with data on their drivers.
 

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AD5060/SQ8 Photo

Thought I'd post a pic of my 'SQ8's if anyone's still interested...

Mine clearly do NOT have the fabric surround "covered with black rubber" as the spec sheet indicates! What's up w/ that?

Joseph
 

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Last edited:
I was hoping to resurrect this thread regarding replacing the butyl rubber surrounds on these mids.

Can I use foam or is it imperative that I track down some replacement rubber surrounds?
 
i know of someone that used foam, but i can't remember who. may be for the better or the worse, not sure. is your rubber completely gone or do you just have a tear? you may want to post on the infinity forum and the person that had his refoamed may see it and tell you where he got it done.
 
The rubber was severely deteriorated. The speakers had been stored in a shed for several years before they were given to me.

Orange County Speakers said there would not be a problem using foam, I was looking to see if anyone had used foam. I may try the Infinity forum, I wanted to try this thread first since they are the exact drivers I have.

Thanks.
 
Thanks for all the great info. My 10's mids are okay (knock MDF).

However one of the 1969 e-stat hybrid Infinity 2000A whizzer cone mids stopped working--although pushing on the dust cover sometimes kicks it back in--so Charivari you're very much a :king: thanks

My later DQ-12's have Vifa mids and 20i's have ScanSpeaks, althought the not-i version of the 20 had Vifas?
 
Translation of the dutch web site

Quote:
Textielrand en is bestreken met zwart rubber.
Translation: Surround in black rubber.

The correct translation is: cloth finallized with butyl , as seen on lots of speaker used at that time (look at ESS Model 9, peerless woofer and the Rectilinear XII woofer, both have cloth surrounds with butyl) .
 
The AD5060's I have are out of a set of Genesis 3's and are the same mids found in many B&O Beovox speakers. They came with butyl rubber surrounds.

Anyone have any experience putting new surrounds on these?
 
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