Reel to Reel... where do I start?

[SimplyOrange]

Well, I have a turntable and a decent setup. But I want to move into the area of reel to reel tape decks. The problem is, I'm not sure exactly where to start. I looked at various topics, and am just a bit confused regarding models; which ones are best, reliable etc. Also cost of not only the deck, but tapes as well as sources for blank reels.

Though I would love to have prerecorded reels of my favorite albums, they tend to be very pricey at 7.5 IPS (from what I've seen) and I have no idea with blanks.

Basically I'm in the dark and would appreciate kind of an overview of what to expect with tape and decks.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Numistrek09]

Well, expect to spend some money to join the club. R2R has a somewhat high admission fee, as you've already discovered. As for what machines to look at, it kinda boils down to what you want the reel to reel to do. R2R came with different tape widths, track configurations and reel sizes. From your post it sounds like you want to start basic. That would be quarter track, 1/4 inch tape at the standard consumer speeds. (3 3/4 and 7 1/2 ips.) Now, what size tapes do you want to play? Most pre-recorded reels come in the 7" size. As it would happen, 7" blanks are still the cheapest option around. New tape is still made and you can find it online from a couple of sellers, like usrecording or splicit.

http://usrecordingmedia.com/
http://splicit.com/

There are others, but those are the first two i thought of. Next thing to remember is reel to reel decks haven't been made in 25 to 30 + years now. (Unlike turntables and even cassette decks, which have always been produced to one quality level or another. R2R has not enjoyed this support.) Most decks will need some maintenance, if only just oiling, belts and maybe new rollers. Other decks will need ALOT more. But often when your question is asked i see some very common answers repeated. There is alot of love for the Pioneer RT 707 and 701. They are well built, sound good and even at this age are usually still running well as is. Parts are easy to find, and units are still fairly cheap. There is also a large number of reccs for the TEAC A series decks. Often needing some new lube and belts to run, but easy to repair and well built. Also, common as can be, so easy parts. Teac even still has some! In general, avoid the really old portable units with speakers built in or attachable.

Thats my condensed observations. I'm sure others will be along soon to give more suggestions from first hand use. If buying old tape, stick with Maxell. Its proven to be the most reliable of the vintage tapes. Stay away from Ampex, as much of it is the opposite of Maxell on aging with grace. (Look up sticky shed syndrome)

 

[SimplyOrange]

Well, expect to spend some money to join the club. R2R has a somewhat high admission fee, as you've already discovered. As for what machines to look at, it kinda boils down to what you want the reel to reel to do. R2R came with different tape widths, track configurations and reel sizes. From your post it sounds like you want to start basic. That would be quarter track, 1/4 inch tape at the standard consumer speeds. (3 3/4 and 7 1/2 ips.) Now, what size tapes do you want to play? Most pre-recorded reels come in the 7" size. As it would happen, 7" blanks are still the cheapest option around. New tape is still made and you can find it online from a couple of sellers, like usrecording or splicit.

http://usrecordingmedia.com/
http://splicit.com/

There are others, but those are the first two i thought of. Next thing to remember is reel to reel decks haven't been made in 25 to 30 + years now. (Unlike turntables and even cassette decks, which have always been produced to one quality level or another. R2R has not enjoyed this support.) Most decks will need some maintenance, if only just oiling, belts and maybe new rollers. Other decks will need ALOT more. But often when your question is asked i see some very common answers repeated. There is alot of love for the Pioneer RT 707 and 701. They are well built, sound good and even at this age are usually still running well as is. Parts are easy to find, and units are still fairly cheap. There is also a large number of reccs for the TEAC A series decks. Often needing some new lube and belts to run, but easy to repair and well built. Also, common as can be, so easy parts. Teac even still has some! In general, avoid the really old portable units with speakers built in or attachable.

Thats my condensed observations. I'm sure others will be along soon to give more suggestions from first hand use. If buying old tape, stick with Maxell. Its proven to be the most reliable of the vintage tapes. Stay away from Ampex, as much of it is the opposite of Maxell on aging with grace. (Look up sticky shed syndrome)

Thank you very much for the information.

Just two more questions though:

What's the primary difference between 10.5" and 7" reels and if I were to record vinyl to tape, would it retain the sound quality or would it diminish?

Thanks again!

 

[vinyldavid]

There is no difference in sound quality between the size of reels. The difference lies in track width and tape speed. Always record 7.5ips or higher.

I second the recommendation for the Pioneer RT-701/707. Great sounding, great looking units. Leave it at 7.5ips and you'll have years of enjoyment.

 

[SimplyOrange]

There is no difference in sound quality between the size of reels. The difference lies in track width and tape speed.

So if I'm understanding you correctly, you can just record more content on 10" reels?

Thanks also for the recommendations guys.

 

[vinyldavid]

So if I'm understanding you correctly, you can just record more content on 10" reels?

Yes. And when you get to faster speeds (15 and 30 inches per second) as well as wider track formats, the larger reels start to become very useful and vital. For most home-use applications, an RT-701/707 with decent tape will perform admirably.

 

[Jonny Ramone]

You should probably consider a 10.5" machine. It can play both size reels, and were generally top-line decks.The only negative is it encourages you to buy 10.5" reels, which can easily exceed the cost of the deck. My ebay flipper friend comes across 10.5' reels more than others. TEAC A-3300S/SX, X-1000, Akai GX-630/625, Sony TC-755, are good choices to start. Others will recommend their picks. CONDITION IS JUST AS IMPORTANT AS LINEAGE. My best decks are ones that generally are poo-pooed on these sites, but mine are in superb shape.

 

[jmiles1960]

I got started in R2R by finding them on Craigslist and at yard sales!

 

[oldvinyldude]

One can still find very decent quality used tapes for smaller money.

My favorite is Scotch 207-comparable to Maxell and TDK, and often available for a few dollars a reel or less.

Unless you have deep pockets, pre recorded 7.5ips tapes of well known popular artists are going for big money. Even 3 3/4ips ones are going very high.

I see R2R as a very cool toy of sorts. Lots of fun to make some tapes. Very pleasing to the ear, and to the eye. Larger reel size is very nice for making long recordings that keep me from hopping up to change lp's or cassettes.

I also get a kick out of listening to what others have recorded. I have bought used tapes with the intent on wiping are recording over-but on about 1/2 of them, I have elected to keep what's on them.

If you are patient, you can get going for a couple of hundred dollars. It might take a year to find a solid working deck and some quality tape stock. It's easy to spend 10 or 20 times that, if you start going for high end decks and lots of stock. That's where I wound up.....

 

[mhardy6647]

Where to start? Save yourself the trouble most of us have... and start at the end! ;-)



(not mine... sadly)

 

[SimplyOrange]

I've heard of the TEAC A-3300 that you mentioned Johnny, and was thinking with starting with something like that, I appreciate the comparable recommendations from other brands as well. I saw a listing on an auction site for a 4300SX and unfortunately, though it was restored, I don't think it was able to play 10.5" reels.

How many minutes of playtime can I get out of 7" versus 10.5" reels? I'm mostly planning to record some of my LPs. I want to retain that analog sound quality without having to flip/clean the record and wear out the vinyl as quickly.

Thanks again for the replies. I'll definitely keep a lookout for any of the models suggested on here :yes:

 

[goldear]

10.5" reels are only needed if you want to make super long play tapes, or if you want to record at higher speeds. At 7.5 ips, an 1800 foot tape will record 90 minutes on a 4-track stereo machine.

 

[1tumbleweed]

To clarify:

7" reel, 1800', 7-1/2 ips = 45 minutes per side.

10-1/2" reel doubles the tape length and the time (3600', 90 minutes per side).

Speed: 7-1/2 is the standard, 3-3/4 doubles the recording time but with reduced fidelity, 15 is only necessary if you're recording live.

As far as brands: Stick to TDK and Maxell, Scotch 207 if it's cheap enough, BASF isn't too shabby either, and usually comes in a neat plastic case.

 

[edwyun]

One thing I would recommend (and what I was told when I got into RTR) is to determine how you will use the deck, as that will generally determine what deck is right for you. For example:

1. Will you play pre-recorded tapes? Then you will need a deck that can handle 4-track recordings.

2. Will you want to record full vinyl or CD albums? Then you will most likely want a 10" capacity at 7.5ips.

3. Do you want the ability to play background music for several hours? Then you will want 3.75ips.

4. Do you want to record at CD quality levels? Then you will most likely want the option for at least 15ips (whether a standard switch (e.g., 7.5 versus 15ips ) or an internal switch to go from 3.75/7.5ips to 7.5/15 ips).

5. Do you want to master and record from multiple sources? Then you may want a multitrack deck.

Then there's the level of adjustments you want. Do you want auto reverse, easily accessible level/bias adjustment, etc?

I think you will get what you pay for. And there's also the cost of getting the deck set up properly - usually not something that ordinary folk (like me) can do, especially without the test tapes and gear.

But, in the end, I think it's a great medium.

 

[odelj48]

I still have a Pioneer RT-1011L which I have not used for a while. It is a 3 head, 3 or 4 motor (can' remember) 10.5 inch reel that records at up to 15ips. I used it to record LPs I could not find and I borrowed from friends to make a copy of. It had very good sound, specially at 15ips, but whenever possible I would just buy the LP. I still have few of the tapes I made. The only problem I had with it is that the heads got dirty very often, I believe that it was the rubber wheel that holds the tape against the capstan was deteriorated and transferred some of the "stuff" to the tape and the tape to the heads. Other than that I never had a problem with it.

 

[oldvinyldude]

The Pioneer 1011L was the low speed version (3 3/4 and 7.5ips). There was a 1011H version as well-and logically, it was a 7.5 and 15ips deck.

For home use, it's hard to beat the 1011L for robust build quality, recording/playback quality, and value. It is also a 10.5 inch deck. Decent ones can be had for less than the cost of an inexpensive laptop. I have rarely heard of one with electronic or motor issues issues. Can't say the same for x series Teacs, Akai-lots of models, Sony's, etc.

 

[SimplyOrange]

Are there different types of tape? I heard there was different tape made for different models, like low noise tape and such?

Also, is there a very large quality difference between 15 and 7.5 ips? Like I mentioned, I plan to record LPs and would like to preserve the quality. Would 7.5 IPS do the job?

Finally, if I understand right; if 7" reels at 7.5 IPS is 90 minutes total and 45 minutes a side, would recording 7" reels at 15 IPS basically cut that in half (ie. 45 minutes total, about 22 minutes per side)?

I again appreciate all of the information, sorry if I sound like a broken record at this point.

 

[krisjay]

A series Teac's are pretty well known to be bullet proof. Whether 7" or 10", as far as recording LP's to tape, 7.5 is pretty much standard. Recording at 15 ips is a luxury and cost alot more to feed. Unless you are looking to play Tape Project tapes, 15 ips is a bit much for normal home use. 10" decks are of course fun to watch and hold more content, I have found a solid 7" deck is going to be about right for most newcomers to the tape world, if you can swing a 10" deck, and it is plug and play, have at it, but know it is going to be a bit different to live with and take care of tape wise.

 

[mhardy6647]

Are there different types of tape? I heard there was different tape made for different models, like low noise tape and such?

There are - but good tape is good tape; stick with, e.g., (used) Maxell UD35 and have your deck biased for it; it's very, very good... or go with one of the currently marketed formulations. Avoid "EE" tape formulations unless you have an "EE" compatible deck, I'd opine.

Is there a very large quality difference between 15 and 7.5 ips? Like I mentioned, I plan to record LPs and would like to preserve the quality. Would 7.5 IPS do the job?

Yes, 15 is better but 7.5 on a good well adjusted deck with good heads is fine for home archival use, I'd opine.

Finally, if I understand right; if 7" reels at 7.5 IPS is 90 minutes total and 45 minutes a side, would recording 7" reels at 15 IPS basically cut that in half (ie. 45 minutes total, about 22 minutes per side)?

Your figures are correct for 1 mil thickness tape (1800 foot reels). Think about that... a quarter-mile of tape
Isn't it interesting that a traditional LP record is about... 20 to 22 minutes per side?!
As to the 15 ips tape run times... that's why they make 10-1/2" (3600 foot) reels

I again appreciate all of the information, sorry if I sound like a broken record at this point.

 

[1tumbleweed]

Are there different types of tape? I heard there was different tape made for different models, like low noise tape and such?

There are different types available. Most machines will do well with typical low noise tapes such as TDK or Maxell. There is a type called "EE", which is designed for use on machines that are labeled for it. Unless you have a machine like that there's no necessity for it.

Also, is there a very large quality difference between 15 and 7.5 ips? Like I mentioned, I plan to record LPs and would like to preserve the quality. Would 7.5 IPS do the job?

In almost all cases, 7.5 is all that's necessary for copying LPs. 15 will give you a slight improvement, but it will eat up tape twice as fast.

Finally, if I understand right; if 7" reels at 7.5 IPS is 90 minutes total and 45 minutes a side, would recording 7" reels at 15 IPS basically cut that in half (ie. 45 minutes total, about 22 minutes per side)?

Yep, you got it. That's one of the reasons 7"/1800 ft./7.5 ips is so popular, because you can record two LPs on one reel, one to a side. Very few LPs exceed 45 minutes.

I again appreciate all of the information, sorry if I sound like a broken record at this point.

Not at all. That's how you learn, and a primary reason for this forum to exist.