Reel to Reel... where do I start?

[SimplyOrange]

There are - but good tape is good tape; stick with, e.g., (used) Maxell UD35 and have your deck biased for it; it's very, very good... or go with one of the currently marketed formulations. Avoid "EE" tape formulations unless you have an "EE" compatible deck, I'd opine.


Yes, 15 is better but 7.5 on a good well adjusted deck with good heads is fine for home archival use, I'd opine.


Your figures are correct for 1 mil thickness tape (1800 foot reels). Isn't it interesting that a traditional LP record is about... 20 to 22 minutes per side! Think about that... a quarter-mile of tape

As to the 15 ips tape run times... that's why they make 10-1/2"/3600 foot reels

Thanks for the information.

I looked up some information about 4-track and 2-track machines. I heard 2-track decks have better signal-to-noise ratio, less bleed through etc. But what if I wanted to also play 4-track prerecorded reels I might come across? Were there ever any combination units made that could switch between 2 and 4 track, were any of them reliable?

 

[Soren Hammer]

Thanks for the information.

I looked up some information about 4-track and 2-track machines. I heard 2-track decks have better signal-to-noise ratio, less bleed through etc. But what if I wanted to also play 4-track prerecorded reels I might come across? Were there ever any combination units made that could switch between 2 and 4 track, were any of them reliable?

2-track decks has a theoretical improvement in signal-to-noise ratio in 3 dB. My Revox B77 2-track is 4 dB better than the 4-track version; I prefer 2-track because I like what i'm hearing. Some decks could switch between them, among some top of the line 7" late 60's European decks (B&O had several models that could record in 2-track and play back both formats.) Technics made the RS-1500 and RS-1700 series, can't remember the specific model number - maybe 1506 and 1706. 10.5" capacity and selectable track configuration, generally seen as some of the finest domestic decks.

I seem to remember that Otari also made a semi-pro deck that could record in 2-track and play back both.

The feature is very rare and it seems like a better alternative to settle with one of the two formats or get a deck for each format.

Regarding the different types of tape: The manufacturing companies settled with different tapes during the years. The BASF LP35 LH works well with any deck calibrated for low noise, high output tape; Agfa made a similar tape called PE36 (the long play version was PE46), Maxell had UD, TDK had the LX, Scotch were 207. It is relatively easy to recalibrate the deck if you should have the need to use other tape stock if you have some experience with electronics (or have a friend with some.)

 

[edwyun]

Yes, most of the Otari MX5050s have the ability to play/record 2-track and play 4-track. That's precisely how I use mine.

As for 7.5 versus 15. Most of the time, 7.5 is sufficient and very good, but on those special recordings or if I'm trying to preserve something, I use 15. I do notice the higher performance in those recordings. :thmbsp:

As for tapes, there's also new tape being made (ATR and RMGI), though at about $40-50 a pop for 10" with reel.

 

[Skylab]

I can't recommend the Pioneer RT-707 highly enough as a good place to start. Super well built and very reliable. They sound great, and they make great tapes. Unless you really want to go immediately for broke, the 707 can be had for $300 in good shape very regularly. Often less. For playing back pre-recorded tapes, there isn't really a much better choice. And you can make great sounding tapes at 7.5 ips.

I also have a big TEAC A-3340S which will do 10" reels and 15 ips, and it sounds great, but playing back 7.5 ips reels, the Pioneer sounds at least as good.

 

[gizzyman47]

You say your planning on recording your albums. A head demagnetizer and roller cleaner is essential, or your recordings will suffer. Hand-i-mag makes a good demagnetizer. Make sure you learn the correct way to use it or you will do more harm than good.

 

[Blue Shadow]

Be nice to have a general budget for this unit as there are some great machines that do everything but they cost a lot even well used. And with a head relapping by JRF Magnetics you are getting to 4 figures. So about what would you consider a reasonable price and we can recommend machines as you are getting a grip on what the different formats/speeds and such are and how they relate to your expected use.

Tandberg 1041X/RT-909/Crown SX-724 so I'm in the 4 track camp, 15/7½&3-3/4 available with this group are what I've got. One since new others more recent.

 

[SimplyOrange]

Be nice to have a general budget for this unit as there are some great machines that do everything but they cost a lot even well used. And with a head relapping by JRF Magnetics you are getting to 4 figures. So about what would you consider a reasonable price and we can recommend machines as you are getting a grip on what the different formats/speeds and such are and how they relate to your expected use.

Tandberg 1041X/RT-909/Crown SX-724 so I'm in the 4 track camp, 15/7½&3-3/4 available with this group are what I've got. One since new others more recent.

My budget right now is about $350-$400. Brands I have in mind are Pioneer, Otari and TEAC. I'm willing to start out with just a 2-track deck as well, and maybe get a 4-track deck in the future (with the genre of music I listen to, prerecorded tapes are probably going to be rare to come by anyway).

 

[mhardy6647]

The OP asked about formats (e.g., half track and quarter track)...

http://richardhess.com/notes/formats/magnetic-media/magnetic-tapes/analog-audio/025-cartridges/

FWIW - I'd suggest sticking with plain old consumer "quarter-track stereo" format for maximal compatibility - until and unless the OP decides to go to multiple decks (or a deck with interchangeable head blocks).

A four track deck (e.g., this TASCAM 22-4) is certainly capable of playing and recording in a quarter-track-like (i.e., tracks 1 and 3 on one side/tracks 2 and 4 on the other) format... but the track dimensions (formats) may not be (are not?) 100.0% identical. I do play quarter-track tapes on my 22-4 and they seem to work OK (i.e., no obvious 'bleed').



Here's some illumination on tape "options" (these, unfortunately, no longer in production)
See also: http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=246946

(note that one of these is an "EE" formulation, the Maxell tape labeled with "XLII" - but not really related to the "UD-XLII" cassette formulation)
-
P.S. New tape is available from www.usrecordingmedia.com It is, unfortunately, not inexpensive.
EDIT: this stuff looks good... http://usrecordingmedia.com/rmemlp14x36o.html

 

[oldvinyldude]

Start with the "Toyotas" first

With your stated budget, I would most definitely say a 4 track consumer machine. Pioneer RT701/707, Teac A series, Pioneer 1011L. There are lots of Akai's-but they can have noisey transistors-rarely hear of such issues with the Teacs and Pioneers.

7.5ips will satisfy for a long time.

Budget for accessories: Demagnitizer, head cleaner and swabs, Pinch roller cleaner, splcing tape and block, hold down tape, leader tape. These alone can cost $100 or more for the group.

You can always decide if it's worth the jump to more costly hardware and greater speed-later.

 

[KentTeffeteller]

oldvinyldude's advice here is first rate. His machine recommendations are exactly what I'd steer you to. All of these machines are fine choices and will serve you well when bought in nice condition and operating as they should. Make sure heads, motors and motor bearings are in good condition, any of the above can be costly to repair or replace. 7 1/2 IPS speed is a good practical way to go in 1/4 track Stereo for your machine.

 

[icenine]

The only problem is factory reel prices on ebay if you are into popular classic rock artists. I have 4 decks at home and find I listen to them less and less. I think buying a decent three head cassette deck like a JVC KD-V6 for cheap and then paying 49 cents for the tons of factory cassettes available at the thrifts will be more rewarding in the long run. And a Nakamich BX-300 with a decent factory tape will rival (maybe not top) many many reel to reel experiences.

 

[Skylab]

On the other hand, if you are into Classical music, you can buy amazing sounding 7.5 ips pre-recorded reels of some of the greatest recordings of all time for almost no money.

 

[wstiles11]

As far as the "speakers attached" decks being bad starting points, i would have to politely disagree. I have a Sony TC-500a, which is what Bob Dylan used in his Basement Tapes. Its not a top ofthe line machine but it sounds great, and is a great starter deck. It runs at 7 1/2 and 3 3/4 on 7" reels. Its a 4 track, stereo each way. And you can find all kinds of reels at thrift stores, I found at least 15 at my local thriftshop. A little tlc and knowledge (from most of the people on this forum) and you can be listening to and recording great stuff.

 

[tubesNtape]

On the other hand, if you are into Classical music, you can buy amazing sounding 7.5 ips pre-recorded reels of some of the greatest recordings of all time for almost no money.

Could you recommend some titles to look for? I need more classical, and more tapes.

 

[Skylab]

Well, it's a pretty large group of possibilities...do you have some favorite composers?

I'm a symphony guy myself. The Bernstein / New York, Walter / Columbia, and Ormandy / Philadelphia performances on Columbia StereoTape of Tchaikovsky, Mahler, Mozart, and others are great and often cheap.

 

[asterion]

As far as the "speakers attached" decks being bad starting points, i would have to politely disagree. I have a Sony TC-500a, which is what Bob Dylan used in his Basement Tapes. Its not a top ofthe line machine but it sounds great, and is a great starter deck. It runs at 7 1/2 and 3 3/4 on 7" reels. Its a 4 track, stereo each way. And you can find all kinds of reels at thrift stores, I found at least 15 at my local thriftshop. A little tlc and knowledge (from most of the people on this forum) and you can be listening to and recording great stuff.

I picked up a Sony TC377 off of craigslist for 40 bucks, it had a speed issue but was quickly resolved with some fiddling about although I had absolutely no experience with R2R. It is 4 track, has three Ferrite and Ferrite heads and has a reputation from what I have read as being a solid little deck.
I purchased a couple of reels of Quantegy tapes off of e bay for not a bad price ( 12 Bucks or so ) to get me started. I was just learning but my first efforts ( Dave Brubecks-Time Out and the Pixies Doolittle) worked out great.
I then picked up 10 BASF LP35 at a local audio/record store for 10 bucks each new, sealed. I also find tapes at garage and estate sale usually CHEAP.

Mainly my brother and I use it to record our own "basement tapes" or Songs from the Ramshackle Wreckord Room. It's a cool little addition to the ever growing pile of stuff. The younger generation(s) think it the coolest, some have never even seen one before.

The suggestion for a cassette player is a good one also as I have been picking some of them up for 25-49 cents. I only have a player in my old car but I can not believe how good they sound. I will pick up a player as soon as I happen upon the right one.

Here's the Sony





and one more - That's not the original cover, it's one I had laying around from an old dual 505 TT, not a perfect fit but almost.



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Have fun and enjoy the music.

 

[DKirk]

Just be aware that expenses go way up when you use 10" reels. NAB adapters for my TEAC 3300SR cost me $50 and a genuine TEAC take up reel was $75. Prices for 10" reels of tape are so high that I only have three used reels of nasty Ampex 456 in that format. By way of contrast, I've collected a couple of dozen sealed boxes of Scotch 206/207 in the 71/2 inch format and I've never paid more than $5. I also have a 2 track TEAC 3300, but it doesn't get used because at 15 ips it uses 4 times as much tape as a 4 track. It sounds good, but not that much better to my ears.

Here's a couple of mine:

3300SR

2300SX

I like TEACs because they're so overbuilt that they're practically bulletproof, they sound great and they're easy to work on, even for a klutz like me. I buy non-working units cheap and the only thing wrong with them is that old grease needs to be replaced. I've had to replace a couple of VU meter bulbs, but that's easy.

I have no experience with them, but I've always admired the looks of the Pioneer 701/707.

 

[ofajen]

Just be aware that expenses go way up when you use 10" reels. NAB adapters for my TEAC 3300SR cost me $50 and a genuine TEAC take up reel was $75. Prices for 10" reels of tape are so high that I only have three used reels of nasty Ampex 456 in that format.

For new 1.5 mil tape, the cost per foot is similar for 7" and 10.5" plastic reels and cheapest as a 10.5" pancake on a hub.

Personally, I don't think ordinary, three-screw NAB metal reels are worth the extra cost: there's no real benefit to storing tape with flanges on versus just on the hub. On the transport, NAB metal reels aren't that much better than plastic reels. I store tape on the hub or on a plastic reel and spool it onto six screw precision reels when it's on the tape transport.

Cheers,

Otto

 

[gtx580]

This has been an interesting and informative thread. I,ve just started looking for an RTR and since its been a long time since I owned one my knowledge is very limited. Not to date myself,but back in the early 70s I played in a local rock band while in high school and picked up a Bell and Howell RTR to record our practices.What model,how many heads or tracks it had i had no idea! lol All i know was that it sounded pretty good to a 16 yr old compared to my cassettes and 8 track players. I always was amazed at its recording quality and when on the drums by myself practicing,would plug my headphones into it and play along with Zepplin or Deep Purple or whomever I had on. I loved the sound and loved watching those reels turn and meters dance to the music. Thats probably why I,m on here,gaining some knowledge and looking for a good RTR that will fit my needs.

 

[walyfd]

I got into r2r because a console I bought had one in it. I was instantly hooked. Started with a half-track mono head in a Magnecord M30, then found the full-track head for that then finally moved up to a stereo Sony 2/4-track in my next console. I'd never be without a r2r now.

Eventually, I'd like to get something newer and better, but you gotta start someplace. And I'd love to find at least ONE r2r in a thrift store! Maybe it's where I live, but r2r's are non-existent!