Reloop anti-skate problem

[Aillo]

Hello,

I have a Reloop RP-1000 MK3 turntable that I have been using for ten years now. I noticed on a calibration record that the anti-skate knob does really a little. When I set it to the maximum amount (7), it slows down the inner movement of the arm, but it still gravitates towards the center of the record. I have another turntable, Dual HS 130. When I set the anti-skate to the same amount as the tracking force, the arm stays in the middle. So I was wondering, do you think there is a problem with the anti-skate spring of my Reloop turntable?

Thanks in advance.

 

[CrSens]

Reloop looks similar to AT-120, and I think there was a factory recall for antiskate spring on AT-120 first series.

 

[Aillo]

Reloop looks similar to AT-120, and I think there was a factory recall for antiskate spring on AT-120 first series.

Good to know, thanks. They are very similar indeed as both copies of SL-1200.

 

[Aillo]

Hello,

I have a Reloop RP-1000 MK3 turntable that I have been using for ten years now. I noticed on a calibration record that the anti-skate knob does really a little. When I set it to the maximum amount (7), it slows down the inner movement of the arm, but it still gravitates towards the center of the record. I have another turntable, Dual HS 130. When I set the anti-skate to the same amount as the tracking force, the arm stays in the middle. So I was wondering, do you think there is a problem with the anti-skate spring of my Reloop turntable?

Thanks in advance.

Anyone else would have an idea?

 

[jrtrent]

Anyone else would have an idea?

There are various ideas around about how much anti-skate is best. I like the method found in an article at Soundsmith. Their belief is that most people use too much anti-skate, and they suggest the method in the excerpt below.

"If one sets the stylus on a smooth surface of a record (at the end, in-between the run out grooves) – the tip of the stylus has a drag on the surface that somewhat similar to what it would have if it were in a groove. . . Suffice it to say that it is “similar” enough for this method to work well, especially since the method was reverse engineered/calibrated properly by Frank Schroder to be correct for 30-40% record modulation [emphasis theirs]. It then becomes an easy matter to set the A-S and observe the movement of the arm. For a given VTF (any amount of VTF) – set the A-S so that the arm VERY SLOWLY drifts inwards when placed on the SURFACE (NOT IN A GROOVE) at the end of a record. You will have a moment to do this until the stylus “pops” into the run-out groove."

Some records have a wider space in the run-out groove than others, and using a record with a wider space makes this method easier for me. On the arms I've tried this on, the resulting value on the antiskate setting has been considerably less than the vtf setting; e.g., an AT-LP120X needed 0.75 on the antiskate dial with a tracking force of 2.1 grams, and my Rega RP3 needed about 0.9 antiskate for a 1.35 gram tracking force.

Prior to using the method above, I spent a few years just leaving anti skate at zero and tracking near the upper limit of the cartridge's tracking force range; these settings simply sounded better to me than using the match the anti-skate to the vtf number approach. The Soundsmith method doesn't sound any worse, and having a little anti-skate supposedly yields more even wear on the stylus. My older brother's Thorens TD 146 is missing the string and weight that provides the anti-skate, so it's been used without any anti-skate for decades now, and it sounds great. As you may have gathered from these comments, I don't think a weak anti-skate spring is anything to worry about.

 

[CrSens]

Anyone else would have an idea?

I think AT was sending people new antiskate spring as fix of the issue, but I am not sure. I personally would not worry too much about less antiskate than ideal on that turntable, unless, maybe, if you use expensive cartridges.

 

[Aillo]

Thanks a lot @jrtrent and @CrSens!

 

[Lavane]

I have a later AT LP1240 with the new spring luckily. I've always tried to set the anti-skate so that it slowly works inward after reading many posts and threads on the subject. Before that, I would set it so the tone arm was static if possible.

 

[Mr Boochie]

Hello,

I have a Reloop RP-1000 MK3 turntable that I have been using for ten years now. I noticed on a calibration record that the anti-skate knob does really a little. When I set it to the maximum amount (7), it slows down the inner movement of the arm, but it still gravitates towards the center of the record. I have another turntable, Dual HS 130. When I set the anti-skate to the same amount as the tracking force, the arm stays in the middle. So I was wondering, do you think there is a problem with the anti-skate spring of my Reloop turntable?

Thanks in advance.

You might want to think about getting a test record to see if the A/S dial is even working. Tacet makes a nice test record, which has several tests tracks. Track 6, on side one is the skating (anti-skating) test track.

Tacet Test Record.

 

[Aillo]

You might want to think about getting a test record to see if the A/S dial is even working. Tacet makes a nice test record, which has several tests tracks. Track 6, on side one is the skating (anti-skating) test track.

Tacet Test Record.

Now, I am quite sure it isn't working because I tested it on a blank record. When I set it to the maximum amount, it barely affects the movement of the arm. After reading people's comments, I am thinking more and more that setting the anti-skate right is a complex process. There are different methods, approaches etc. I am used to complexity in music (just finished my PhD), but I guess I want simplicity in terms of materials. Also, my livingroom setup is nothing too fancy both in terms of acoustics and material. It is a budget system with reliable components. So, if someday I get a killer amp+speakers+turntable+well treated listening room, I will definitly order this test record (I had no idea it existed) and thanks for that! For now, I am thinking of getting my Reloop repaired soon and I will try to put less anti-skate than what is recommended, trusting my ears.

 

[Mr Boochie]

Now, I am quite sure it isn't working because I tested it on a blank record. When I set it to the maximum amount, it barely affects the movement of the arm. After reading people's comments, I am thinking more and more that setting the anti-skate right is a complex process. There are different methods, approaches etc. I am used to complexity in music (just finished my PhD), but I guess I want simplicity in terms of materials. Also, my livingroom setup is nothing too fancy both in terms of acoustics and material. It is a budget system with reliable components. So, if someday I get a killer amp+speakers+turntable+well treated listening room, I will definitly order this test record (I had no idea it existed) and thanks for that! For now, I am thinking of getting my Reloop repaired soon and I will try to put less anti-skate than what is recommended, trusting my ears.

Setting the anti-skate on a blank disc is not the best method. And yes, the complexity and modulation of the music effects the skating (and thus anti-skate setting).

The interactions of the specific cartridge + stylus + tonearm + tracking weight will also affect the settings. I like test records, for this reason. The idea of the Tacet test record is to make it as far as possible through the increasing modulation of the track without the buzzing distortion. Dial in only enough A/S to make it the furthest, cleanly through this test track.

That test record also has a nice resonance track. I like to have the final weight on my tonearm and headshell, to get a resonance range of 8-10Hz. I really like 8Hz. It works best in my system for clean bass response with no rumble or other feedback issues. Resonance frequency is a function of the tonearm and cartridge compliance compatibility.

 

[Aillo]

Setting the anti-skate on a blank disc is not the best method. And yes, the complexity and modulation of the music effects the skating (and thus anti-skate setting).

The interactions of the specific cartridge + stylus + tonearm + tracking weight will also affect the settings. I like test records, for this reason. The idea of the Tacet test record is to make it as far as possible through the increasing modulation of the track without the buzzing distortion. Dial in only enough A/S to make it the furthest, cleanly through this test track.

That test record also has a nice resonance track. I like to have the final weight on my tonearm and headshell, to get a resonance range of 8-10Hz. I really like 8Hz. It works best in my system for clean bass response with no rumble or other feedback issues. Resonance frequency is a function of the tonearm and cartridge compliance compatibility.

Again, this is very useful information, and thanks. I think it will serve me in futur. I do understand what you mean because I recently reorganized my recording studio where I have good gear + good acoustic treatment. So I was very careful with my measurements and the settings of each equipment. My point is, do you really think the test record and what you have just explained would serve me now, in my current setup? The turntable I use is a German copy of SL-1200 (Reloop RP-1000 mk3) and the stylus I use (ATN91R) costs less than the test record you mention. I really do want to know btw, it isn't a rhetorical question. If the answer is yes, than I might consider. If not, getting the Reloop repaired and trying to set the anti-skate as less as possible seem to me like a decent idea, until obviously I have a better system. Also, could you tell me what kind of equipment you use? Thanks.

 

[CrSens]

Again, this is very useful information, and thanks. I think it will serve me in futur. I do understand what you mean because I recently reorganized my recording studio where I have good gear + good acoustic treatment. So I was very careful with my measurements and the settings of each equipment. My point is, do you really think the test record and what you have just explained would serve me now, in my current setup? The turntable I use is a German copy of SL-1200 (Reloop RP-1000 mk3) and the stylus I use (ATN91R) costs less than the test record you mention. I really do want to know btw, it isn't a rhetorical question. If the answer is yes, than I might consider. If not, getting the Reloop repaired and trying to set the anti-skate as less as possible seem to me like a decent idea, until obviously I have a better system. Also, could you tell me what kind of equipment you use? Thanks.

You really don't have to worry about antiskate not working fully with that cartridge, just set it to maximum amount you can.

 

[Mr Boochie]

Again, this is very useful information, and thanks. I think it will serve me in futur. I do understand what you mean because I recently reorganized my recording studio where I have good gear + good acoustic treatment. So I was very careful with my measurements and the settings of each equipment. My point is, do you really think the test record and what you have just explained would serve me now, in my current setup? The turntable I use is a German copy of SL-1200 (Reloop RP-1000 mk3) and the stylus I use (ATN91R) costs less than the test record you mention. I really do want to know btw, it isn't a rhetorical question. If the answer is yes, than I might consider. If not, getting the Reloop repaired and trying to set the anti-skate as less as possible seem to me like a decent idea, until obviously I have a better system. Also, could you tell me what kind of equipment you use? Thanks.

This is my Technics 1200MKII anti-skate and tracking settings. With AT 33Sa cartridge.

With an A/S setting of about 0.7 for 2-gram tracking, I was able to go through entire "Skating" track on Tacet test record with no distortion. I used headphones to monitor the results.

 

[KentTeffeteller]

There are various ideas around about how much anti-skate is best. I like the method found in an article at Soundsmith. Their belief is that most people use too much anti-skate, and they suggest the method in the excerpt below.

"If one sets the stylus on a smooth surface of a record (at the end, in-between the run out grooves) – the tip of the stylus has a drag on the surface that somewhat similar to what it would have if it were in a groove. . . Suffice it to say that it is “similar” enough for this method to work well, especially since the method was reverse engineered/calibrated properly by Frank Schroder to be correct for 30-40% record modulation [emphasis theirs]. It then becomes an easy matter to set the A-S and observe the movement of the arm. For a given VTF (any amount of VTF) – set the A-S so that the arm VERY SLOWLY drifts inwards when placed on the SURFACE (NOT IN A GROOVE) at the end of a record. You will have a moment to do this until the stylus “pops” into the run-out groove."

Some records have a wider space in the run-out groove than others, and using a record with a wider space makes this method easier for me. On the arms I've tried this on, the resulting value on the antiskate setting has been considerably less than the vtf setting; e.g., an AT-LP120X needed 0.75 on the antiskate dial with a tracking force of 2.1 grams, and my Rega RP3 needed about 0.9 antiskate for a 1.35 gram tracking force.

Prior to using the method above, I spent a few years just leaving anti skate at zero and tracking near the upper limit of the cartridge's tracking force range; these settings simply sounded better to me than using the match the anti-skate to the vtf number approach. The Soundsmith method doesn't sound any worse, and having a little anti-skate supposedly yields more even wear on the stylus. My older brother's Thorens TD 146 is missing the string and weight that provides the anti-skate, so it's been used without any anti-skate for decades now, and it sounds great. As you may have gathered from these comments, I don't think a weak anti-skate spring is anything to worry about.

Big difference in the quality of the tonearm on a TD-146 in terms of precision of the build, the quality of and tolerances of the bearings, and an arm on a Hanpin SL-1200 wannabe. The bearing friction on the Hanpins is considerably higher by comparison to Thorens, or the real Technics. That said the Reloop is as good as Hanpin designs get. Better than the cheaper models.