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Replacement cartridge/stylus for Dual Turntable

retrorecords

New Member
I recently acquired a Dual 1246 with a Pickering XSV-3000 cartridge/stylus. There is no brush on the stylus. I played a few records for some friends and they said it didn't sound great and recommended that I replace the cartridge/stylus. I thought it sounded ok, but I'm willing to concede that this is the original cartridge and stylus from 1978 so it's likely time to replace it. There are folks on ebay selling the replacement stylus for my Pickering cartridge for only $25. However, many people are recommending that I replace the cartridge and stylus and one of my audiophile friends found the Shure M97xE High Performance Magnetic Phono Cartridge for only $60. I'm not even 100% sure that the Shure is the right model for my 1246. Any thoughts or advice from the experts out there?
 
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The Shure M 97xE is excellent with that Dual tonearm. A superb match. The AT 120 E/T and 440 MLa are also nice matches.

Agreed! All three of those would be excellent choices. That being said, the XSV-3000 is a very good cartridge so don't toss it (unless you toss it my way :)). NOS styli, the D3000, surface from time to time as do the equivalent Stanton styli, the D-81S & D-81 II S. There are also some good generic replacements for it from JICO in Japan but, sadly, not for $25.00.

There could be a number of reasons why that Pickering doesn't sound all that good, by the way. It could be that the stylus is worn out, of course, but it could also be that the cartridge isn't set up correctly on your turntable. Cartridge setup (alignment, overhang, stylus pressure, vertical tracking angle, azimuth) are critical, especially with a line contact stylus like the D3000. Before doing anything about a replacement I'd give the Pickering a fair chance by checking the setup.

John
 
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Which I would agree with. That Pickering is a superb cartridge. Do get the stylus checked for wear under a microscope. Hopefully it's just dirty or misaligned. The best styli options for the XSV are these days wicked expensive.
 
Which I would agree with. That Pickering is a superb cartridge. Do get the stylus checked for wear under a microscope. Hopefully it's just dirty or misaligned. The best styli options for the XSV are these days wicked expensive.

Yes. And believe your ears, not those of your friend. Its your system.
 
I don't really understand how to tell if the stylus is worn out. Looking under a magnifying glass I can see that it's still there, but I can't tell if its worn out. Given its age it has to be past it's prime. The cartridge looks fine to me. What's a good replacement stylus if I were to buy one. I'll post a link to the one on eBay for you guys to check it out.
 
I don't really understand how to tell if the stylus is worn out. Looking under a magnifying glass I can see that it's still there, but I can't tell if its worn out. Given its age it has to be past it's prime. The cartridge looks fine to me. What's a good replacement stylus if I were to buy one. I'll post a link to the one on eBay for you guys to check it out.

Really, the only way to tell whether a stylus is worn out is to look at under a microscope. Absent the ability to inspect styli closely, the "default" position is to assume it's worn out. With expensive styli, though, that can be a difficult decision.

The $25.00 styli on eBay are going to be Swiss-made Pfanstiehl generics. They'll be a standard elliptical stylus and not the "Stereohedron" line contact styli like the original. They'll work and may sound fine but are of a quality and a design that aren't up to the original.

If it were me, I'd go with this one. These "ViVid Line" styli are a fairly recent arrival on the scene but all reports so far have been very positive. They're a "line contact" design like the Pickering D3000. At $80.00 they cost more than the Shure M97xE but less than the AT440MLa and about the same as the AT120E.

John
 
All the usual Ebay vendors are selling the same stylus and from my dealings there all "good guys" so I would go with the one who is the cheapest if that is what you want to buy just to check out the sound of the cartridge
 
That XSV-3000 is an excellent cartridge, get a worthy stylus for it - JICO is probably your best bet unless you can find a NOS Pickering stylus or Stanton 881S. (different plastic, but interchangeable)
 
+1 on keeping the Pickering. I've had an M97xE, and while it sounded fine, that Pickering isn't a stinker either.
 
+1 on keeping the Pickering. I've had an M97xE, and while it sounded fine, that Pickering isn't a stinker either.

I have both. The XSV with a Shibata stylus (or an original Stereohedron - good luck) is in a league above the M97xE. Mine has the lpgear Shibata they sold before they started selling VividLine styli. I'm going to guess it's the same, just a new marketing tag. Keep the XSV.
 
How much of a difference is there?

I know you get what you pay for, but I'm not a super audiophile and don't want to spend big $ if I don't have to. As you know, LPGear is selling the VividLine stylus to replace the Pickering D3000 for $80 and everyone else is selling the Pfanstiehl generic D3000 for $25-30. Is the difference worth more than double the price? I'm not asking for anyone to make my decision, I'm just trying to discern if it makes THAT MUCH of a difference.

Similarly, I have a Shure M70EJ cartridge and stylus and I can either replace just the stylus with a Pfansteihl generic for about $20, or buy a brand new Shure M97xE cartridge AND stylus for $60. I'm tempted to go for that option because I'm getting both the cartridge and stylus in that deal.

I just want to hear from the audiophiles out there. If I can spend $50 for two new Pfansteihl stylus' for my two turntables and be about as satisfied as I would be spending $140 for both the VividLine D3000 stylus and Shure M97xE that would be great, but I don't want to save $90 and be really unhappy with the sound. Thoughts? Opinions?
 
One note from Anderson's music I wholeheartedly agree with is this:

My needles are new Inventory!
Many individuals are selling old
leftover inventory from 40+ years ago.
They call this " NOS " new old stock,
but there is nothing new about them!
The rubber cracks, the glue turns brittle and
the diamond tip falls off. Old needles are no bargain.

I've only purchased a couple of NOS styli, one from Pickering's sister company Stanton, but neither proved to work well. Stanton advised me that most likely the rubber suspension had hardened with age. On their website, Shure has said that a stylus more than 10 years old likely needs replacement due to suspension problems even if it had never been played.

On the other hand, I also haven't had good luck with after-market styli. Doing a search for the specific Pfanstiehl stylus you're considering, posters at this site have been variable in their descriptions of its performance, with some even finding it not to fit properly, and others finding it to sound decent but not great.

My preference is to always buy new, factory-fresh cartridges and original styli. If I want to save money, there is plenty to enjoy in a cheap cartridge like the Audio Technica CN5625AL, which has an MSRP of just $25.00 (used to be $39, and I thought it was a good buy at that price, too). Like any other cartridge, it needs careful setup and some break-in time.

Some cartridges, like the AT I mentioned, might be too light to use on your Dual without a headshell weight (5.5 grams is the listed minimum cartridge weight to balance in the 1246's arm). I had to use a headshell weight to balance the CN5625AL in my Ittok arm.

If you're curious, there's nothing wrong with trying the Pfanstiehls for your Pickering and/or Shure. I'd love to hear how it worked out for you. Whatever your decision, remember that it's only money, and it's not like it's the last stylus or cartridge you'll ever own. I've always used my turntable enough to need at least an annual stylus or cartridge change, and for many years I bought something different every time just to hear something new. I encourage you to try different things often enough to form your own opinion about you like and don't like about different cartridge brands, models, available styli, etc.

FWIW, I've become partial these past few years to the afore-mentioned, cheap AT. It has a lively, engaging sound without the bright, lean characteristic I hear in their more expensive models (AT95E, AT120E/T, AT440ML). It's .7 mil conical stylus tracking at a bit over 2 grams seems to work great for my collection of mostly 50's and 60's mono and early stereo classical and jazz recordings, and it's perfect for Dynagroove, with a pre-distortion cut in to match the characteristics of the .7 mil conical shape:

"The predistortion phase of Dynagroove—the adding of complementary distortion to offset the effects of stylus tracing distortion—appears now to be based on sound engineering principles, even though the amount of predistortion that is added is predicted on the normal amount of tracing distortion produced by a 0.7-mil stylus, a size that has been generally abandoned by the high-fidelity industry. The IM that results when the predistorted groove is traced by a smaller stylus is, however, still less than that obtained when the same stylus traces a normal groove. This has been proven mathematically and demonstrated subjectively." http://www.stereophile.com/content/down-dynagroove-page-4
 
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I'm curious about the Ortofon om5E cartridge and stylus. It lists for about $40, people rate it pretty highly and the Ortofon website says it would fit my dual tonearm. How does it compare to the Shure M97xE cartridge/stylus or the Audio Technica CN5625AL? There are so many choices my head is spinning!!!
 
I listen mostly (like 90%) to classic rock/folk rock. Beatles, James Taylor, CSN, Dylan, Billy Joel, etc. Price wise, I'm a little flexible but if you think about the prices I'm throwing around ($45 for Ortofon 5, $60 for Shure M97xE or $80 to replace my pickering stylus with a "vivd line" model from LP Gear) I just want to get the most value for my buck. Thanks.
 
I think you'd do fine with that Pickering with that music selection. I run a more pedestrian Pickering V15 on my Garrard changer with a Stanton elliptical stylus and it sounds quite good to me. being that the XSV is a step or two above my V15, it should do quite well. My taste in music is largely similar to yours. And for whatever its worth, I traded the M97xE off and kept the Pickering. I did want to try it on the Garrard, but it didnt fit. I upgraded to something else on my Thorens, and ended up trading the Shure for another turntable that I plan to use a very vintage Shure M93E on. The M93E with an N91ED generic stylus I felt had a much more full sound than the M97 did.
 
What he said!

The stylus from Ebay is most likely an elliptical.

It should be fine.

It can be upgraded later if you wish.

You can just swap in the new stylus and do not have to remove, re-install and re-align a new cartridge.:thmbsp:

Assuming that the cartridge is set up correctly.
 
Decision made!!!!

I decided to buy the M97xE from j and r music for $59.99 to put on my Dual 1245. That's for the cartridge and stylus. The online reviews are amazing and for $60 it seemed like a no-brainer. As for my Dual 1246, I'm going to replace the d3000 Pickering stylus for lpgear's "vivid line" replacement. People seem to rave about the pickering XSV3000 cartridge I have and to waste it with a cheap, unpredictable pfansteihl stylus for $25 just seems silly. I figured it was worth another $50 to upgrade to the Ferrari:thmbsp: rather than try to be happy with the Yugo!!!
 
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