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Replacement stylus skates wildly - Ortofon 2M Blue

W

WilsonCA

New Member
Hi, folks. Sorry if this is treading a well worn path, but here's my issue:

I picked up a turntable at thrift that ended up having wiring issues, but it came equipped with an Ortofon 2m Red which sounds just fine to my ears on another table. I decided to use it as an opportunity to upgrade to the 2m Blue stylus, so I ordered a "demo" stylus (ie, open box) from Audio Adviser and spent the last week listening to the Red while I waited for the Blue to arrive. No real issues setting up the Red, and it tracks fine.

Today, the Blue stylus arrived, so I popped it on the Red cartridge body with no other adjustments and it's skating straight across the record instantly. These two are nude and bonded elliptical, respectively, and suggest identical tracking force at 1.8g. I went back and rebalanced the arm... same issue. I raised and lowered the record with added/subtracted slipmats... same issue. Popped the Red stylus back on and it still tracked just fine. I double checked alignment of the Blue on the protractor, making a slight adjustment, and switched to a less precious record. It tracked slightly better, but was skipping easily and leaving a visible mark in my vinyl as it played.

There is a diamond visibly present on the Blue. I'm not sure what else to try, and don't particularly want to ruin any more vinyl. But I'd appreciate a little backup before I request a new replacement or refund. Did I just get a dud?

Thanks for any suggestions.
 
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I forgot to mention my setup, in case that's relevant: Technics SL-Q2 with an entry level LP Gear branded headshell.
 
WilsonCA said:
... it helps to have a second opinion.
Click to expand...
? Red sounded & tracked OK? I don't see how the cartridge/suspension went bad by replacing stylus...
You put the red back in = OK, then blue w/alignment = SKIP. Any problem inserting blue stylus??
I don't like the blue stylus & would return.
But OK to try another one (maybe new, with return policy...). I like your strategy & the Ortofon strategy where the body is the same but you can upgrade the stylus.
 
Thanks for these replies. The only thing odd about inserting the blue stylus was that it feels like the stylus's sleeve has a little play on the cartridge body... not loose or moving freely on Its own, but I can rock it slightly nose-up and nose-down—more than I can with the red. I don't see how that would have such a dramatic effect, but maybe indicates an irregularity in manufacture.

It scares me to think Audio Adviser is just shipping returned styli without any testing to see if they work. I definitely hesitate to ask for another demo unit, and might just take a refund. Trading up for a new unit is another $60, which I'm not thrilled to spend. Maybe they'll be nice and just send me a new one.

I have replaced the stylus on a Grado before, but Ortofon is new to me, so I was wondering if there's some magic trick I'm missing, but it sounds like I did everything right.

Cheers,
Wilson
 
It is perfectly possible to buy a replacement needle directly from the vendor - Ortofon. Then you are guaranteed you get the needle but not a fake/worn/defective thing from some murky source.
 
Point taken. Anything is possible for a price. If you've had a negative experience with that particular site, I'd love to hear it, but I don't see anything wrong with shopping around to reputable third party vendors, or with buying a demo stylus, per se. I will think twice before buying a demo item from Audio Adviser in the future, unless they wow me with their customer service response to this issue.
 
Did they tell what their demo stylus is? How many hours of demoing it had already? Who and how was using it before you?
It's like buying on a flee-market.
 
catBot said:
Did they tell what their demo stylus is? How many hours of demoing it had already? Who and how was using it before you?
It's like buying on a flee-market.
Click to expand...
Yes, actually. The language implies that the item was either only auditioned in-house, or is completely unplayed. "Demo" is a grade distinct from "open box," "used," "factory refreshed," etc. If you want to just come in here and flog me for being a rube, that's fine and we can end the conversation now, but in case you are curious, here is the language from the site:


Audio Advisor occasionally has fantastic deals on clearance items that are in excellent condition and we happen to have just one or two of.
Demo: Photo samples, gear we auditioned, items returned for wrong color/wrong size, etc.

Open Box: Contents briefly examined or inspected for promotional or internal purposes

Factory Refreshed: Original-condition items repackaged by the manufacturer

Cosmetically Blemished: A few dings or scratches, but functionally in original condition

Used: May show some signs of use

All clearance products are carefully inspected by our technicians before we offer the item for sale. All clearance products except Used items come with the original manufacturer warranty and are guaranteed to work and sound like new."
 
Blue Shadow said:
Call Audio Advisor and discuss the issue.
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Good advice @WilsonCA, I have used Audio Advisor in the past and have had excellent customer service! Between MusicDirect and Audio Advisor I can usually get most stuff I need. One step at a time here......let's hear what they have to say if you would be so kind as to report back.

It sure is odd that simply sliding one stylus out and the other in produces such a problem. When you view the cartridge from the front, do you see any difference between the red and the blue? Does the stylus appear to be straight and perpendicular to the record surface in each case? I know you said you checked to see if there was a stylus (diamond, I believe you referred to it as) on the cantilever.....does that look to be straight on the end of the cantilever also? Stuff happens, and I believe when AA gets this back and takes a look at it they will identify the issue and make it right with you. I had a $1,200 Hana ML arrive from MusicDirect with a stylus that was cocked to one side on the end of the cantilever. The cantilever was perfect, just the stylus was mounted improperly. MD was, understandably, a little surprised at my report and needed to have it back in their hands for inspection upon which they concurred.....manufacturing error.

So, it happens on occasion, even with more costly gear and from otherwise very reputable companies so I'm guessing you will probably be given the option of a complete refund or pay the difference between this "demo" item and the price of a new blue. Or, given that you've experienced a bit of an inconvenience, they might just send you the brand new one and apologize for having less than an ideal transaction!!! That's what I would vote for, but clearly I'm not the head of customer service at AA!!! :dunno: Carry on, amigos.....
 
Fishead said:
Good advice @WilsonCA, I have used Audio Advisor in the past and have had excellent customer service! Between MusicDirect and Audio Advisor I can usually get most stuff I need. One step at a time here......let's hear what they have to say if you would be so kind as to report back.

It sure is odd that simply sliding one stylus out and the other in produces such a problem. When you view the cartridge from the front, do you see any difference between the red and the blue? Does the stylus appear to be straight and perpendicular to the record surface in each case? I know you said you checked to see if there was a stylus (diamond, I believe you referred to it as) on the cantilever.....does that look to be straight on the end of the cantilever also? Stuff happens, and I believe when AA gets this back and takes a look at it they will identify the issue and make it right with you. I had a $1,200 Hana ML arrive from MusicDirect with a stylus that was cocked to one side on the end of the cantilever. The cantilever was perfect, just the stylus was mounted improperly. MD was, understandably, a little surprised at my report and needed to have it back in their hands for inspection upon which they concurred.....manufacturing error.

So, it happens on occasion, even with more costly gear and from otherwise very reputable companies so I'm guessing you will probably be given the option of a complete refund or pay the difference between this "demo" item and the price of a new blue. Or, given that you've experienced a bit of an inconvenience, they might just send you the brand new one and apologize for having less than an ideal transaction!!! That's what I would vote for, but clearly I'm not the head of customer service at AA!!! :dunno: Carry on, amigos.....
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Thanks for chiming in. I don't see anything visibly wrong with the Blue stylus. There is a slight difference in that the tip of the stylus on the Blue sits slightly more posterior relative to the tip of the cartridge when compared to the Red, and the cantilever rides just a hair lower. Would this have to do with it just not being broken in yet, is it an innocuous difference, or is it a sign of damage? As far as I can tell just squinting at it, the stylus tip is straight and centered on the cantilever.

I got off the phone with AA customer service a moment ago. They said that all their demo items are customer returns (this is different from the language on their website, which I pasted above), and that items are visually inspected upon return, but not tested. They accept returns within 60 days, so that's the amount of use this stylus could potentially have seen with its previous owner (or owners! Maybe it's been returned more than once). I am going to mail it back and they will visually inspect it again to determine whether it's defective or damaged. If it's damaged, apparently I'm stuck with it, since there's no way to prove the damage was there when I received it. In combination with the discrepancy in their "demo" grading system, this all doesn't inspire a whole lot of confidence in the company. I guess I'll roll the dice and hope they take pity on me. Too soon to tell.
 
WilsonCA said:
Thanks for chiming in. I don't see anything visibly wrong with the Blue stylus. There is a slight difference in that the tip of the stylus on the Blue sits slightly more posterior relative to the tip of the cartridge when compared to the Red, and the cantilever rides just a hair lower. Would this have to do with it just not being broken in yet, is it an innocuous difference, or is it a sign of damage? As far as I can tell just squinting at it, the stylus tip is straight and centered on the cantilever.

I got off the phone with AA customer service a moment ago. They said that all their demo items are customer returns (this is different from the language on their website, which I pasted above), and that items are visually inspected upon return, but not tested. They accept returns within 60 days, so that's the amount of use this stylus could potentially have seen with its previous owner (or owners! Maybe it's been returned more than once). I am going to mail it back and they will visually inspect it again to determine whether it's defective or damaged. If it's damaged, apparently I'm stuck with it, since there's no way to prove the damage was there when I received it. In combination with the discrepancy in their "demo" grading system, this all doesn't inspire a whole lot of confidence in the company. I guess I'll roll the dice and hope they take pity on me. Too soon to tell.
Click to expand...
You always have the "call credit card company" option ....just saying.
 
WilsonCA said:
this all doesn't inspire a whole lot of confidence in the company.
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I do very well understand your feelings.
Ortofon is my prefered brand (that's why I entered this topic), I buy replacement needles from them.
Let's hope you'll get a refund.
It's a shame that those flee-market level "companies" are free to tarnish Ortofon's reputation.
 
I think it's standard practice to return the product (typically they pay postage) for inspection. I didn't like it when MusicDirect told me I needed to return it for their inspection, but I put myself in their shoes and it's just good business sense. It didn't take that long and they sent me a new one that was opened and pre-inspected to avoid a similar problem, unlikely as that would have been. I don't see this ending badly but appreciate your frustration. Sending good vibes amigo.......

PS - The replacement Hana ML was perfect and sounds really, really good......best cartridge this system has ever experienced!
 
WilsonCA said:
Hi, folks. Sorry if this is treading a well worn path, but here's my issue:

There is a diamond visibly present on the Blue. I'm not sure what else to try, and don't particularly want to ruin any more vinyl. But I'd appreciate a little backup before I request a new replacement or refund. Did I just get a dud?

Thanks for any suggestions.
Click to expand...

I had the same problem with the purchase from Audio Advice. It was a Demo 2 M Blue complete cartridge, When I changed the red to blue I had the same problem of it skating across the album. And it was a dud. It didn't even have working coils. They did take it back and replaced it for me.

But I haven't had any problems with other demo items I've purchased from AA.

I've gotten defective items from other sources also. Like a pair of "OpenBox" Klipsh Forte IVs, they sounded like a pair of giant tweeters screaming at me.
 
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