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Restoration: Rek O Kut Rondine 2

mccuskerkt

mccuskerkt

Active Member
I sold my AR XA, which leaves me table-less. We are gonna have to fix that problem. Here is my Rek-O-Kut Rondine 2. It's in pretty good shape, and I am hopeful this will go well..








 
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The solenoid deal is a capacitor. Its value is on the end as seen in your picture. 4 micro farads at 236 volts AC.
 
My first TT ages ago was a Rek-O-Kut. Belt drive. Loved it. I found an old one recently, identical, and bought it for nostalgia. I was going to do a full restoration to its original glory.

Identical tonearm, platter, bearing etc as yours — only the drive method was different. It had really bad bearing rumble. I had to tackle that first. I polished both parts of the bearing, first with super-fine emery paper, then with Dremel buffing wheels and polishing compound. And of course cleaned out old lube and replaced with fresh. I don't remember if it used a ball-bearing for the shaft to rest on, but whatever it used I fixed that too.

It helped a lot, but the rumble was still enough to bother me. My restoration stopped there. No point in proceeding. I gave it to a friend.

I suggest you check your bearing, and its noise level, before putting too much time/effort into everything else.
 
My first TT ages ago was a Rek-O-Kut. Belt drive. Loved it. I found an old one recently, identical, and bought it for nostalgia. I was going to do a full restoration to its original glory.

Same tonearm, platter, bearing etc as yours, so I think it applies — only the drive method was different. It had really bad bearing rumble. I had to tackle that first. I polished both parts of the bearing, first with super-fine emery paper, then with Dremel buffing wheels and polishing compound. And of course cleaned out old lube and replaced with fresh. It helped, but the rumble was still enough to bother me. My restoration stopped there. No point in proceeding. I gave it to a friend.

I suggest you check your bearing, and its noise level, before putting too much time/effort into everything else. Rumble is always a ? with idlers, a good one is great. But a bad bearing is a dealkiller.
 
Kim G said:
IIRC the large capacitor is for the proper operation of the 3 phase design of the motor.
Click to expand...

Indeed. Sans a dedicated 3 phase power supply, the capacitor fools the motor into believing it's getting said supply. The benefits of 3 phase greatly reduces generator and motor vibrations.

Therefore, the OP should verify the capacitance on that old cap to ensure the quietest possible performance for that design. The original physical style of this cap is no longer manufactured so mounting a replacement will require fabrication. Lastly, today's common rating would be 4mfd at 440vac (which is a fine replacement to the original 236vac).
 
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Thanks so much for the info!!
malden said:
Here's a thread I started after restoring my Rondine 2. It only cover the tonearm, but I'll upload some photos of the turntable restoration if any one's interested.

http://audiokarma.org/forums/index....st-o-ration-part-1-micropoise-tonearm.747270/
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I did see your thread when I began my initial search for info. Thank you for posting that, it will be very useful.

bimasta said:
My first TT ages ago was a Rek-O-Kut. Belt drive. Loved it. I found an old one recently, identical, and bought it for nostalgia. I was going to do a full restoration to its original glory.

Same tonearm, platter, bearing etc as yours, so I think it applies — only the drive method was different. It had really bad bearing rumble. I had to tackle that first. I polished both parts of the bearing, first with super-fine emery paper, then with Dremel buffing wheels and polishing compound. And of course cleaned out old lube and replaced with fresh. It helped, but the rumble was still enough to bother me. My restoration stopped there. No point in proceeding. I gave it to a friend.

I suggest you check your bearing, and its noise level, before putting too much time/effort into everything else. Rumble is always a ? with idlers, a good one is great. But a bad bearing is a dealkiller.
Click to expand...
I will definately check that first.

And for everyone that mentioned about the capacitor, thank you so much! Interesting that this is a 3 phase motor, did many TT's use this method? I will be sure to test the capacitance.

Looking forward to get this project going.
 
mccuskerkt said:
Interesting that this is a 3 phase motor, did many TT's use this method?
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I think Empire used the same motor, looks the same anyway, could be wrong. Great motor. Quiet, with incredible torque, nothing slows it down. Drawback: it's very high rev. This means the shaft which drives the idler-wheel has to have a very small diameter, to produce 33.33 rpm. This allows slippage, because the contact-area of the shaft-and-idler is quite small. A "fat" shaft is obviously better, because the contact-area is bigger and provides better grip than a "skinny" shaft.

You'll notice that your idler-wheel has a smaller diameter compared to Garrard or Thorens, because it must spin faster to produce 33.33 rpm — again, less contact-area with the platter and potential slippage.

It's interesting to follow the chain of events: high-rev motor > small diameter shaft > small diameter idler > small contact areas on both sides of the idler > less grip > more slippage > less steady speed of the platter's rotation. Basically, the Garrard and Thorens are better designs.

But all these "problems" are only "potential" — doesn't mean they'll happen. It does mean you must inspect your idler periodically — if it's wearing down (and it will because of friction) it must be replaced — just like a belt in a belt-drive TT that stretches. Good to have a spare on hand, and good to get it now, because supplies in the future are questionable.

I don't know if there's some kind of "stickum" you could apply to the idler to improve the grip in those small contact areas. There ought to be.

The bearing is of more concern. If it's noisy, and can't be remedied (like mine) you'll need an electronic "rumble filter". They work well. The problem is, what's the frequency of the cut-off point? If it's too high — and it has to be high if the frequency of the rumble is high — then you start filtering out the bass in the music as well.

Again, only another "potential" problem. But it's good to be aware of them. And if your bearing is quiet, then there's no problem at all.
 
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I don't know about that reasoning. Are you comparing idlers to belt-drive? Or are you referring to Thorens belt-drives? As far as idlers, two round objects will contact at a single point regardless of either's diameter.
 
The classic Papst "aussenlaufer" (sp?) motor. Used by just about every major US and European turntable manufacturer at some point. Empire, RoK, Fairchild, Gray, ELAC, even Thorens turned to Papst to supply replacement motors for TD124s when the supply of original Thorens motors ran out.
 
... Not to mention folks like Win Tannon at Oswald's Mill Audio who likes that Pabst motor enough to source it, refurbish and use it on his $25k+ Saskia table.
 
bimasta said:
You'll notice that your idler-wheel has a smaller diameter compared to Garrard or Thorens, because it must spin faster to produce 33.33 rpm — again, less contact-area with the platter and potential slippage.
Click to expand...

It's a belt drive table, no idler. The cream colored wheel near the motor spindle is a tension pulley.
 
Sam Cogley said:
The classic Papst "aussenlaufer" (sp?) motor.
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I wasn't dissing the motor. I said "great motor" in my first line. I was designing a turntable many years ago and bought that Pabst motor for it.

Selmerdave said:
As far as idlers, two round objects will contact at a single point regardless of either's diameter.
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In theory. But it's rubber and it compresses slightly in contact with hard metals. It's a tiny amount but it's there. It's no longer a single-point, it's a slightly broader surface; a benefit of this "deformation" is better grip on the metal surfaces, thus more consistent transmission of speed from motor to platter.

I think this is shown when idler-TTs are not used, but put in storage, with the idler in contact with the platter. It develops a "flat spot" — caused by compression. (Not the Thorens 124 — it pulls the wheel out of contact when you switch it off.)
 
malden said:
It's a belt drive table, no idler. The cream colored wheel near the motor spindle is a tension pulley.
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Wow. I think you nailed me, Malden. I never had a Rondine so I'm only going from the OP's photos, I saw the wheel, thought it was rim drive. My Rek-O-Kut, a different model, had no tension pulley, only the belt, looped around the motor shaft and the platter, and my Empire was the same — like a Linn or Thorens belt-drive. I also had a Garrard 301 and Thorens 124, which of course are idler-drive (though Thorens interposed a belt between motor and idler, a good move to reduce motor noise). My error was blatant and I feel a bit foolish — but not stupid (that may come later) because some of my comments still apply. I'll sort out the good from the bad in my "essay" and repost later.

Embarrassment aside, thanks for the correction Malden.
 
Understandable assumption because all of the other "Rondine" models were idler drive. I think the Rondine 2 was their first belt drive. That goofy tension pulley was there because the original belt was made of some sort of fiber, not rubber.

My R2 didn't have a belt so I ordered one from Esoteric Sound in Illinois who have the correct replacement in rubber. With the new belt, the pulley doesn't do much except make additional noise, so I removed it. The only problem is that without the pulley to tuck the belt in, the cast metal cover does not fit.
 
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