Restoration: worth it to replace internal wiring?

[darkblue94]

Many very competent manufacturers of high quality speakers use better quality (not necessarily bigger) wire and eschew using any connectors (with corrosion and/or conductivity concerns) at all by soldering the wire directly to the drivers. Yes it makes them a tiny bit less convenient to take them apart but then it would only be at a likely 30 to 40 year interval. I can live with that.

 

[SaturationPt]

In solder connections, unless you're using silver solder the mechanical connection between wire and terminal is what you want, the solder just keeps it there and protects it. lead and tin isn't a particularly outstanding conductor.

 

[Nat]

I'm somewhat dubious of the effect of changing a couple of feet of one type or gauge or wire for another given that each of the drivers in the speakers has yards of very thin wire in the voice coils.

 

[embrown057]

Who uses all lead solder any more? Really, you talking 60/40? Next thing well be discussing wire and skin affect, more disputing won't get a better sounding speaker or help the OP. I use 20ga for tweeters, 14ga for mid's and small woofers and 12ga for large woofers.

 

[darkblue94]

In solder connections, unless you're using silver solder the mechanical connection between wire and terminal is what you want, the solder just keeps it there and protects it. lead and tin isn't a particularly outstanding conductor.

Yes but there's still a mechanical connection between the wire and the tabs on the driver when done correctly. The purpose of solder is not to make the connection, nor is it to act as a conductor, it is to keep the mechanical connection from becoming a dis-connection.

 

[SaturationPt]

Yes but there's still a mechanical connection between the wire and the tabs on the driver when done correctly. The purpose of solder is not to make the connection, nor is it to act as a conductor, it is to keep the mechanical connection from becoming a dis-connection.

Exactly.

 

[SaturationPt]

In solder connections, unless you're using silver solder the mechanical connection between wire and terminal is what you want, the solder just keeps it there and protects it. lead and tin isn't a particularly outstanding conductor.

Who uses all lead solder any more? Really, you talking 60/40? Next thing well be discussing wire and skin affect, more disputing won't get a better sounding speaker or help the OP. I use 20ga for tweeters, 14ga for mid's and small woofers and 12ga for large woofers.

Umm, lead and tin as stated above, which is your 60/40.

We can discuss wire and skin effect, it is part of how the signal gets from one place to the other however the OP is asking for information and whether there's any "measurable reason" to change wiring in his example: old EPIs. There are those who feel that bigger is better in any wiring, but nobody has been able to provide anything measurable here so far, just opinion.

 

[Bill S]

If using brass, silver or gold connectors was a pipe dream then let the top speaker manufactures know, they all use them.

Purely conjecture here, but if you're out for boutique pricing, I'd think you need to use something a bit more exotic than 12ga romex in order to charge top dollar and get the consumer to bite. Exotic speaker cables case in point. I've seen some magnificent looking speaker wire that looks like high-end garden hose(high flexible PVC jacket) shielding cables made of exotic oxygen-free copper, or solid silver core, using fancy terms like bucking coil winding to do exactly what, I don't know. Again, I wouldn't expect to find hardware store variety aluminum spade connectors on these cables, not for what they're charging. All of these high end cables make claims of dramatically improved sound quality, claims that have not once been substantiated with scientific testing that I'm aware of. To quote Bose though: "You can't measure our speakers conventionally because our speakers aren't conventional." Same with high end wire I suppose although double blind testing usually resolves this.

 

[dogwan]

Re: brass connectors

a few years ago I had a lovely vintage motorcycle, a '75 Honda CB400f. THE flying french horn! It was beautiful and mint. 35 years old and only had 12,000 miles. Rode like a dream and was super fun, but every trip out more than a couple hours about town or getting stuck in traffic would kill the battery. Every piece of the charging system was checked independently and I tried every vintage Honda trick in the book to reduce the draw on the system. Disconnected the rear brake light switch, LED bulbs in the running lights, etc. Every little bit helped .... a tiny bit, but it would still die eventually. I resolved myself to living life with a battery tender, curfews, and range limits.

Then one day I was introduced an old vintage racer/gearhead. He knew this bike up and down. Could probably do a full tear down faster than a marine disassembling his sidearm. He asked me if my fuse block got hot after riding for any amount of time. Oddly enough I had always wondered why the fuse cover was slightly melted. He told me that the brass fuse holders built up micro-corrosions over time and created resistance which turned into heat. And that the hotter it got the more resistance it would present. That was why it would behave when under test in the garage, which made it really hard to diagnose. Next time out I checked and sure enough the whole fuse-block was really hot to the touch after an hour or so. Well, it turns out every single connector on the bike was brass! Took an entire day to clean every connection with steel wool and treat with dielectric grease, this included all the controls and instrument clusters. Problem solved. It has never occurred to me to look for a resistance problem that would vary with run time.

Now, I know that's all anecdotal and probably de-bunkable with science. But I always remember that experience when I open up some great vintage speakers and see those cheap brass push on connectors that are sometimes loose, sometimes tight (contraction expansion with current?). So now I always do a hard connection with solder knowing that I can always re-solder if needed. I don't need the speed of connectors to keep productions costs down like the original manufacturer.

Let 'er rip.

 

[Justgotohm]

These speakers came with 22g wire.

 

[bigaltx24]

I've only changed wire in one pair of speakers. a pair of Polk SDA 1Bs. Put 12 gauge in them because they were going to be paired with a Carver M1.0t in a big room so they would be seeing some pretty high wattage. I never noticed a change in sound from the larger wire. When recapping I always set an ohm meter on it's lowest setting and check for high resistance in all connections.

 

[bowtie427ss]

Yes but there's still a mechanical connection between the wire and the tabs on the driver when done correctly. The purpose of solder is not to make the connection, nor is it to act as a conductor, it is to keep the mechanical connection from becoming a dis-connection.

It also serves as a gas tight seal around said mechanical connection.

Even though we need it to survive, oxygen is an enemy to our electronics. One critical place to deny access to O2 is wherever conductors meet.

There are mechanical methods of gas tight connections, barrier strips are one of my favorites.

Properly terminated, and matched push-on connectors can also provide gas tight connection that will last many years. The challenge here is in both installing the terminals properly, and sourcing precise terminals that bite each other with enough clamping force to provide the all important gas tight connection. They're just far from my preference. If i were in production for profit, i'm sure i'd feel differently about them.

 

[Harvestor]

I rewired my CERWIN VEGA PD9's with 14 Gage copper speaker wire & removed the 22 Gage out.
My CERWIN VEGA 380SE which are almost 100% identical to the PD9 are still stock thin internal wiring.....

My assessment ....the PD9's sound more accurate reproducing Music , more full better sounding Bass and more articulate vocals.

 

[darkblue94]

It also serves as a gas tight seal around said mechanical connection.

Even though we need it to survive, oxygen is an enemy to our electronics. One critical place to deny access to O2 is wherever conductors meet.

There are mechanical methods of gas tight connections, barrier strips are one of my favorites.

Properly terminated, and matched push-on connectors can also provide gas tight connection that will last many years. The challenge here is in both installing the terminals properly, and sourcing precise terminals that bite each other with enough clamping force to provide the all important gas tight connection. They're just far from my preference. If i were in production for profit, i'm sure i'd feel differently about them.

Evidently my post wasn't exactly clear in that I am not espousing the theory that push-on connectors are superior to wire directly soldered to the terminal, in fact I believe the opposite is true. Push-on connectors add an additional element into the equation, the connector itself. In the direct wire (soldered) connection there is no break of conductivity between the copper wire (or silver sometimes) and the driver terminal whereas the push-on connector acts as a bridge between the wire and the driver terminal bringing the issue of material conductivity into play. Brass has 28% and aluminum 61% of the conductivity of copper and if not plated corrosion will further compromise the connection. The question really boils down to whether the added convenience of a push-on terminal compromises the integrity of the connection enough to really matter and that is up to the individual doing the work.