Restore AR turntable or purchase new one?
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Thumper
Well-Known Member
One more vote for the AR here.
I've got a basically stock XB with upgraded springs, new platter mat, belt and repro headshell (thanks to AK'er dualhead) and it's a GREAT deck. I still like my Dual 1219 better, but not by a whole lot.
Someone on here said "elegant simplicity" about these tables. Amen.
I've got a basically stock XB with upgraded springs, new platter mat, belt and repro headshell (thanks to AK'er dualhead) and it's a GREAT deck. I still like my Dual 1219 better, but not by a whole lot.
Someone on here said "elegant simplicity" about these tables. Amen.
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AvFan
Super Member
The bottom of the platter is 1/4" above the lip of the base. My motor projects above the top plate (causes a little hum with certain carts) so the platter rides a bit higher. The springs are still set at the same distance, 31mm if I recall correctly.
My XB's lumber was found in a "shorts" stack of junk walnut. Besides the grain and figure it weighed twice as much as any other piece in that stack and quickly went on my lumber cart.
Never made it down to Auburn but Tahoe and Truckee have had daytime highs in the mid to high 80s. Spooky dry too. Got a good southwest view towards Lake Tahoe from the top of Mt. Rose yesterday:
I could also see the Tamarack and Beckwourth fires from the summit (10,800').
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infullview
Super Member
Can you quantify exactly what was so good about the AR? What was the measured speed accuracy, W&F, rumble? Also, let's talk about the arm, IMO it wasn't that good. My Technics had a low mass straight arm, and it way out performed the AR in its ability to track a warped record.
And that's why so many find multiple tables the best solution these days. I have one specially allotted for less ideal records, with another headshell for the worst. Then one for only the best cleanest, and yet another that does most of the heavy lifting. Really it depends on what you want the table to do. If you're only playing pristine records, then handling warps is kinda moot (and sprung arms are the best for warps IMHO, or the shure sprung cart).
Regardless, the ar is a solid investment you will get your return on pretty handily with a known history table.
Mister Pig
Pigamus Maximus
Search for posts from Marc Morin, he was an excellent engineer that quantified the strengths of the AR table, what his modifications were, and how it improved the table. Sadly, Marc lost the battle with cancer awhile back, and his knowledge and experience can only be accessed by his posts. Fortunately he passed down some of his craft, tools, and techniques so AR tables can still be updated.
This thread is huge, but it has all the info about upgrades and info on the AR tables. The contributions by Marc Morin and Steve Frosten are what you are looking for.
https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/offical-ar-turntable-owners-thread.595003/
Regarding the arm, Marc redid the V Blocks, lined them with sapphire, and also worked with swapping in a Technics arm wand so a standard head shell could be used. The restoration of bearings and upgrade of the v-blcoks turned it into a good arm.
a numbers guy eh?
I listen to music not numbers.
added to that I have a couple thousand records and none are warped enough to be an issue with any of my seven tables, you should take better care of your vinyl investment.
infullview
Super Member
I always took care of my vinyl, but I did have 3 other siblings that were not always careful. Please! Let me be clear: I don't dislike the AR table at all, and I'm all for the OP doing a restoration. That said, I spent many years using the AR table with an Ortofon MC and SUT, and I think a lot of the hype is legend. We also had an AR AU amp. that was great in the day, but seriously? Who uses inter-stage transformers on a solid state amplifier anymore!
you haven't stated what Technics table you had that was better, the SL1200MKII certainly isn't.
infullview
Super Member
Yup, and I'm not going to go down this rat hole with you.
adnick
Addicted Member
Would say that the majority of the people singing the praises of the AR table own more than one type of fairly high end to very high end table(s); so it’s definitely not hype 
What motivation would they have to claim that an AR performance was on par or nearly on par with a high end table that they own?
Human nature would be to declare that their high dollar table with incredible specs blows away the “lowly AR”
VR
Andy
What motivation would they have to claim that an AR performance was on par or nearly on par with a high end table that they own?
Human nature would be to declare that their high dollar table with incredible specs blows away the “lowly AR”
VR
Andy
Man, that AR/Ortofon sounds like a badass setup! Which Ortofon? I have heard that some folks ran SPUs on ARs. SPUs are one of my "someday" carts.
infullview
Super Member
I don't remember the number on this cart. I do remmeber that it was all black with gold lettering and had a metal shield over the stylus similar to the model in the picture below.
Sweet!
but you ask for qualification of the AR lol, I figured as much
Would say that the majority of the people singing the praises of the AR table own more than one type of fairly high end to very high end table(s); so it’s definitely not hype
What motivation would they have to claim that an AR performance was on par or nearly on par with a high end table that they own?
Human nature would be to declare that their high dollar table with incredible specs blows away the “lowly AR”
VR
Andy
and you would be right
but I wouldn't say it's on par with the WTL
but I will say I purchased the Thorens TD166MKII as an upgrade to the AR, but it wasn't so went into the bedroom system at the time. Now one would expect if any kind of bias it would have favored the new table I just spent money on, maybe there was, but not enough to fool my ears lol.
Added to that, the Thorens also looked a lot better, so ya, I wanted it to be better.
The table to finally unseat the AR, but put a Grace arm on the little guy and things might be different eh.
Another great Kenny that edges out the AR
But again, put a boutique arm on the AR, along with a little Morinifying and the balance could change.
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IMHO I would highly recommend doing a full restore of your AR table , I have had mine forever 4yrs now and as I have said many times before I will never part with it despite having table that cost more than twice what I paid for it.
My XA is not at all embarrassed next to my Nottingham Ace Spacedeck with Audiomods Series 6 arm and that is saying a lot as the Nottingham is an exceptional performer and although it is more refined than the XA the XA does not give up much as price might have you believe.
I will also say imo the the XA is my art piece table it is so stunning in its looks (imo) that even while playing my Nottingham I find myself starring at the XA’s beauty. The performance of my fully Marc Morin (Rest in Peace) Modified table is mind blowing and an absolute pleasure to listen to with any record. So with that said I would fully restore it and maybe do a custom plinth if that’s your thing. Here’s mine and good luck
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Audiofreak71
could you post a picture of the Spacedeck?
As I posted before, when I got the XA going I was amazed that it went toe to toe with the AR I had owned for thirty years and added most of the Merrill mods; acrylic subchassis, acrylic and lead platter, periphery ring, motor and power supply, Jelco arm. The XA was stock other than cardas wire and it cost me all of $19.
The new one is definitely better than the Merrill, no doubt but it has the stock aluminum T-bar and platter. With each ‘upgrade’ from Merrill, I thought I was getting closer to Nirvana, but each step took me closer in a HiFi sense but took me further from the music. Spinning the XA for the first time got closer to the illusion of live musicians in the room than I ever remember experiencing.
Are there better turntables? Of course, but I’m good.
The new one is definitely better than the Merrill, no doubt but it has the stock aluminum T-bar and platter. With each ‘upgrade’ from Merrill, I thought I was getting closer to Nirvana, but each step took me closer in a HiFi sense but took me further from the music. Spinning the XA for the first time got closer to the illusion of live musicians in the room than I ever remember experiencing.
Are there better turntables? Of course, but I’m good.