REVIEW: SL-1200MK2 w/ thedelihaus upgrades!

[thedelihaus]

Thanks for this input. Even with the racquetballs I'm still hearing some low feedback, although a lot less than before....

It will be better. But also, my opinion is you'll need to run a metal platter mat too.

...Would you say that you're getting a perfectly black background with most records with the Isonoes? I'm just trying to justify spending $175 on feet!
...

They are an excellent product. But yes, $175 is soooo pricey for 'em.

Wait 'till you try to jusify when you cough up the $250 for a platter mat....

 

[sxty8goats]

Copper platter mats confuse me. In my mind a mat shouldn't conduct or transfer vibrations. Rubber/cork/felt all dampen.

Am I wrong? (this is a viable reality) . How does a copper mat actually benefit the sound of a table? What is the theory behind it?

 

[beatcomber]

Copper platter mats confuse me. In my mind a mat shouldn't conduct or transfer vibrations. Rubber/cork/felt all dampen.

Am I wrong? (this is a viable reality) . How does a copper mat actually benefit the sound of a table? What is the theory behind it?

Weight?

 

[majick47]

With all the mats to choose from the choice is difficult. I finally made a choice and just ordered a Herbies mat for my SP-25, it's the 292mm diameter x 4mm thick model, about $80 shipped. One of the deciding factors was the ability to return the mat for a refund if I wasn't pleased with the performance. After I listen to it for a while I'll update with any improvement noticed over the Technics rubber mat. Herbies also sells a mat for the SL-1200Mk2 and my guess the results should be about the same as with my SP-25. Herbie had a large number of reviews/feedback from people who purchased his mats and quite a few were for the Technics turntables.
About the only drawback I can think of is that the Herbies mat might not stand up to around the clock heavy duty use in a radio station, for home use this shouldn't be a consideration. I'd have to go back to Herbies site and check but it looks like the Herbies mat is going to weigh noticably less than the Technics rubber mat, being 4mm thick it should be roughly as thick as the Technics mat. Instead of increasing mat weight I'll be decreasing weight going in the opposite direction.

 

[sxty8goats]

Heck, what radio station even spins vinyl these days?

Looking forward to your review of the mat. 4mm is @ 2.5 mm thinner than the 1/4" mat, there is something preventing my arm's VTA from dropping lower than 2mm. I really need to pull the table apart again and see what I did there. Probably have the RCA's line routed wrong. I have plenty of adjustment with the 1/4 inch mat but loosing 2.5 mm would kill it.

Weight?

Maybe?

 

[beatcomber]

Heck, what radio station even spins vinyl these days?

I guess you don't listen to WHRB in Cambridge!

 

[majick47]

Very few radio stations playing records these days but looking at the condition of ex radio station turntables most of them look like they took a beating doing their job and nothing light weight would stand up to the constant use. I'll recheck the Herbies site re mat thickness, I agree it would be best to keep it as close as possible to the thickness of the Technics rubber mat.

 

[majick47]

I checked the Herbies site re the mat thickness and Herbie does make a 1/4" thick mat for the 285mm SL1200Mk2. He also makes a 292mm mat that is 7/32" thick that will fit the SP-25. Since Herbie has a number of models of mats I'm sure by now he took into consideration the thickness for a specific turntables such as the Technics SL1200Mk2 and SP-25. From what Herbie notes anything thicker than 3.7-4mm will have no sonic benefit and the addded thickness will only benefit VTA adjustment where needed.

 

[thedelihaus]

Copper platter mats confuse me. In my mind a mat shouldn't conduct or transfer vibrations. Rubber/cork/felt all dampen.

Am I wrong? (this is a viable reality) . How does a copper mat actually benefit the sound of a table? What is the theory behind it?

Mats like the gunmetal SAEC and the copper Micro Seiki and TTWeights and alloy TTWeights and Timestep mats have a different resonance frequency than the aluminum platter. Same applies for the crystal/glass Nagaoka mat one can order.

Keep in mind MDF platters and acrylic platters also have a resonant quality, although for the most part, they are pretty darn inert.

The theory behind applying a metal platter mat is the different metal, sporting a different resonance frequency, cancels out the frequency of the aluminum platter which (in theory and I'd say in practice, too) has already cancelled out the resonance frequency that would be carried through raw-mounted copper or alloy (or crystal glass or acrylic or gunmetal or MDF).

My SAEC mat specifically says to NOT use any other (rubber, cok, foam) mat between platter and it's gunmetal mat.

The TTWeights mat pretty much would be used the same way, however personally I modified it slightly with a wafer-thin rubber coating spray-applied directly to the mat.

I've experimented with other materials too.

Weight?

An added bonus.

 

[HypnoToad]

Don't laugh but I put an old album under the rubber mat on my SL1700, as it doesn't have VTA adjustment it lifts it up to where the arm is parallel when playing a record. Which makes it sound better IMO.

 

[sxty8goats]

HT, you are not the first to do that. I've read it here a couple times. It is always in the back of my mind as something to try if I need to 'adjust' my VTA.

Paul,

Thanks. That makes some sense. I'd love to hear a demo one of these days to see if my ears are good enough to tell the difference. Isn't the SL1200 platter a composite? I could have sworn that there was a resin layer in there some where for the same reason.

 

[MWalt]

I've been fooling around with my Deli modded arm quite a bit lately. I have discovered, at least to my ears, that I prefer the Shure M91ED (pfanstiel stylus) over the Denon DL-160 and the Denon DL-103R on my Delihaus modded stock arm. I am amazed because it is the least expensive cart that I own. I am more convinced than ever that system synergy and the matching of overall system components has a lot to do with the final product. However, I prefer the D103R on my modded Sumiko because it just matches up better.

*Edit* I just played an Art Pepper LP and I take back the above for Jazz music; the Denons sound better with Jazz.

 

[tmblack]

One person used deerskin for a mat.

 

[sxty8goats]

I've been fooling around with my Deli modded arm quite a bit lately. I have discovered, at least to my ears, that I prefer the Shure M91ED (pfanstiel stylus) over the Denon DL-160 and the Denon DL-103R on my Delihaus modded stock arm. I am amazed because it is the least expensive cart that I own. I am more convinced than ever that system synergy and the matching of overall system components has a lot to do with the final product. However, I prefer D103R on my modded Sumiko because it just matches up better.

*Edit* I just played an Art Pepper LP and I take back the above for Jazz music; the Denons sound better with Jazz.

You won't get any arguments on that from me. I run three carts on my set up.

M91ED w/pfanstiel, M91ED w/SAS and Stanton 680 with Shabata. I tend to run the pfanstiel loaded cart for heaver stuff, rock and metal. It really doesn't give up a lot to the SAS, a sligtly less 'open' sound stage is about it on good clean records. I tend to mount it when I play a record for the first time so I don't get any surprises. The SAS can really dredge up some deep seated muck, even after a spinclean.

The SAS is used for the vast majority of my listening, especially for 70's era rock. I occasionally mount the Shabata when I want a little more 'sparkle' on the top end. If I was forced to choose one, it would be the SAS. If I only owned the pfan and the Shabata, I would run the pfan.

 

[majick47]

Paul/Thedelihaus I left out telling you about the Mason Super W pads with the "sandbox" KFCrosby told me about re turntable installations at radio stations. I'm guessing the pads were placed under the sandboxes/consoles.