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Rogue Dragon VS PS Audio BHK VS Carver 350

tritiumglo

tritiumglo

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There is a long thread here on Carver's new amps. They just aren't what they seem.
Rogue has great support. I almost bought one of Rogue's Atlas Magnum tube power amps, but I wound up buying mono block kits instead. It's an all tube class A/B 1000wpc amp. The crocus Magnum is the same amplifier with a SS phono section, input selector and volume control.
All tube will sound less clinical co.pared to SS or hybrid. Rogue also tends to offer upgrade kits for older versions of the tube amps they produce.
 
Personally, I don't see the appeal of buying power amps with tube front ends and SS output stages. For the cost of two of those PS audio amps, I'd buy two phenomenal SS power amps (Benchmark, Hypex, etc.) and a bunch of tube pres to swap and modify until I had the sound I wanted.

Specifying what you mean by "high power" would be helpful. To some people (myself included), high power is 75 watts. To others, it's 500 watts.
 
I think I heard the Carver gear years ago at AXPONA. I haven't owned any PS Audio components. With all of that out of the way, I have owned several Rogue component and have listened to the hybrid amps. Service and support from Rogue is outstanding - they will repair anything they have ever made. I really like the fact that when they do release a new product, more often than not, there's an upgrade path. My observation is that PS Audio hasn't maintained a consistent product line and look over the years, I'm talking 15, 20, or more years.
 
AlexHempel said:
Personally, I don't see the appeal of buying power amps with tube front ends and SS output stages. For the cost of two of those PS audio amps, I'd buy two phenomenal SS power amps (Benchmark, Hypex, etc.) and a bunch of tube pres to swap and modify until I had the sound I wanted.

Specifying what you mean by "high power" would be helpful. To some people (myself included), high power is 75 watts. To others, it's 500 watts.
Click to expand...
I've used my tube preamps with SS amplifiers and it can sound very good.
Not quite as good as all tube, but close. If you need gobs of power then that would be the way to go. For tubes a 75w to 100w amplifier is a lot. With tubes, it starts getting expensive fast the higher the wattage due to the bigger power transformers, output trassformers and number of big power tubes needed.
I have a pair of 125 watt tube power amps and that's as big as I want to go.
Using cheaper power tubes it would cost me around $500 or more just for the power tubes needed for them as they use four per amp.
 
AlexHempel said:
Personally, I don't see the appeal of buying power amps with tube front ends and SS output stages. For the cost of two of those PS audio amps, I'd buy two phenomenal SS power amps (Benchmark, Hypex, etc.) and a bunch of tube pres to swap and modify until I had the sound I wanted.

Specifying what you mean by "high power" would be helpful. To some people (myself included), high power is 75 watts. To others, it's 500 watts.
Click to expand...
My preference is a minimum of 250. I like higher volume on occasion. I enjoyed the Mcintosh 501 but since Mcintosh has become extremely unreliable with no support, I wont be buying anymore of their equipment.
 
Lavane said:
There is a long thread here on Carver's new amps. They just aren't what they seem.
Rogue has great support. I almost bought one of Rogue's Atlas Magnum tube power amps, but I wound up buying mono block kits instead. It's an all tube class A/B 1000wpc amp. The crocus Magnum is the same amplifier with a SS phono section, input selector and volume control.
All tube will sound less clinical co.pared to SS or hybrid. Rogue also tends to offer upgrade kits for older versions of the tube amps they produce.
Click to expand...

Looks like I need to read up on the Carver. I emailed them about availability. No reply. So they are moving down the preference list.
 
Yeah, for pure tube and 250 watts minimum your options would be limited. Manley has 250 watt tube monoblocks... 17 grand each. There are some other kind of obscure options too. Demeter (never heard of them until I started looking) VTHF-300M claims 300 watts but it's not a pretty looking thing and honestly at the price they're charging I'm a little suspicious it meets the specs. In general I suspect most tube amps reaching the 250+ watt range might be doing so with substantially limited frequency response and relatively high distortion. I'd be willing to bet a very large sum of money that the Carver 350s don't come close to making 350 watts with reasonable frequency response.

Looking at the Rogue Dragon, it is just two tubes as a front end for a Class D Hypex power amp. I wouldn't spend four grand on that when you can build two Hypex UCD700s and get 350 watts into 8 ohms for like $600 each.
 
Don't know where you live but big tube amps have a high heat output, for the most part, and can limit their usability in the hotter months of the year...I haven't been able to use my MC240 for over a month due to temperatures...my den just gets too warm and the air conditioning won't shut off...
 
Most homes have AC. If you don't, you most likely live in an area that doesn't need one. I've never worried about the heat from my tube amps.
If the OP needs a lot of power, an all tube preamplifier mated with a big SS power amp is probably the way to go. I've used several tube preamps with various SS power amps with good results. You can still get some of that tube sonic goodness. Plus it will cost less for a decent tube preamp than It would for adding huge tube power amps.
 
Yep, Lavane, I hear you, but as an example the Weather Underground lists the temperature in San Francisco with a high of 67 deg. today, and says that's a high for the week, while outside my door it's 94 deg. right now...and climbing, so, once again for South Texas it's solid state season...but, my preamp is all tubes!

95 or above for the next 10 days...sheesh....
 
tritiumglo said:
Seeking a power amplifier with a laid back refined top end. Warmth over clinical analytic sound preferred. High power and low impedance stability is required.

The amplifier will be used with a large variety of speakers including Magnepan.

Top choices right now are the BHK250, Rogue Dragon, Carver Crimson/Raven.

Tube/D? Tube/AB? Tube?

http://www.rogueaudio.com/Products_Medusa.htm

https://www.bobcarvercorp.com/crimson-raven

https://www.psaudio.com/products/bhk-signature-250-amplifier/
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Older thread sorry.
I demoed a Rouge ST100 (used).
I wasn't that impressed-maybe it was the KT120's?
My Primaluna Prolouge 4 with stock tubes beats it in every conceivable way.
Even with its lower rated power-this amp continues to impress me.
It drives (my old) Magnepans and my Infinities no problem.
To very loud volumes. (I have a H/K SIg 1.5 350 wpc@ 4 ohm to compare).
This amp really reminds me of my dad's kit built Citation V amplifier.
It drives anything with out issue
You can roll tubes with all the Prima amps.
Some larger power tubes may need a slight adjustment with the auto bias board.
Just my take-the Cit V and this Prolouge are what a good tube amplifier should sound like IMHO.
The Carver isn't worth the effort
Google Crimson 275 15 watt Elcor out transformer.
 
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Just a FIY.
Most tubes guys know this.
Looking for say 200 wpc tube power-esp if you have never had a real tube amp IMHO isn't the wisest choice.
A real tube amplifier with wide band proper output transformers-the WPC isn't a good gauge, esp if your comparing to S.S. amps.
Best is to demo and see how the amp drives your speakers.
Tube amps can be picky-regardless of WPC rating.
It's really about the quality/capability of the output transformer and how it's implemented.
 
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