Rolling Mc2000 Tubes
- Thread starter howiebrou
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Hi Bud,
My advise is:
1. Stay with McIntosh branded tubes.
2. Rolling may or may not get you the sound you prefer (and honestly, I dont know for sure if one after familiar with McIntosh would prefer another.
3. If does not, this rolling thingy is going to be very costly.
if things aint broke, why fix it? More so when in the first place the McIntosh OEM tubes were designed into the MC2000 and not the after market types, whatever the hype is.
Know I am be inviting flames for not being adventurous BUT to me, its better to be safe than to be sorry cause its going to be a costly sorry later if end up not liking the performance.
Cheers!
Howie, I'll offer a different perspective from our friend Jerry. With the NOS / vintage tubes in limited quantities and virtually (most?) everyone enjoying better sound why not venture a few dollars and find out? You wouldn't want to miss out if they offer a boost in performance as stocks dwindle. McIntosh needs a steady supply of current production tubes to run a business, nothing more. They're certainly not going to stock them with 50-60's vintage 12ax7/12at7 Telefunken, Mullards, RCA Black Plate, Sylvania 5751's etc. I've gotten better performance with all these over current production Chinese or Russian. For KT88's I've had great luck with Penta Labs KT88SC's and hear good things about the New Sensor Reissue Gold lions. Of course there are the original NOS Genelex ... $$$. If you realize a performance boost and are able to stash some away you'll be ahead of the game. I don't think holding off on buying current production tubes will result in a penalty as they seem to be improving in reponse to rising demand, especially some of the reissues.
One caveat though; my experience is with the MC2102, similar tube compliment, but as the MC2000 is a hybrid including transistors in the signal path you do need to hear from other owners as stated in your post.
Jerrys right about one thing though...it can get addictively expensive!
One caveat though; my experience is with the MC2102, similar tube compliment, but as the MC2000 is a hybrid including transistors in the signal path you do need to hear from other owners as stated in your post.
Jerrys right about one thing though...it can get addictively expensive!
Thank U Sir. Thats why I am sticking by my trusty MC1201's .... tubes, oh tubes, soo very2 expensive when time comes for a change ...... IT will indeed "light....en" the pocket.
Well, but if the sound is what one craved for, money ceetainly can buy happiness! Then go for it!:thmbsp:
Indeed Jerry! When I first switched over to Mac tubes from Mac ss I can honestly say I went around the bend, off the tracks, into the deep end...whatever. Unfortunately there's no turning back for me so your advice may save another. I need a 12 step program for tube addicts, although my wife may soon take care of that! :tears:
howiebrou
Super Member
Many thanks. Don't get me wrong, I am happy with the sound, but when it comes to changing I would like to know my options. Okay so Penta labs are on the shortlist as are NOS Genalex, Gold Lions. I don't even know how much stock tubes would cost? I wonder if Ron could help and also tell us if the stock tubes will be the same as the ones that came with the Mc2000.
Prob with this damn amp as there are so few owners around, fewer still on this forum and even fewer who roll tubes! :tears:
howie
p.s. how about rolling the 12AXs....? Much difference on your 2102?
howiebrou
Super Member
Thank U Sir. Thats why I am sticking by my trusty MC1201's .... tubes, oh tubes, soo very2 expensive when time comes for a change ...... IT will indeed "light....en" the pocket.
Well, but if the sound is what one craved for, money ceetainly can buy happiness! Then go for it!:thmbsp:
Yes Jerry, you have saved a packet by buying FOUR 1201s!!!!!!!!!!!
Yes Jerry, you have saved a packet by buying FOUR 1201s!!!!!!!!!!!
See! Hit me again ....
Never mind lah, .... if not why call U Bud leh?
OK, but in the long run, think 4 x MC1201 is still cheaper to maintain than 4 x MC2000. Dont get me wrong, I still get the thrill of just looking at one MC2000and I intend to keep things this way, just one to look at ...............
Now, my dear friend, the 4 x MC1201's is a necessity more than anything else. To try wring the last "drop" of performance from my speakers! If I am crazy and the stock market favours, I could add one more pair, ... hmmmm tri-amping ........
Ok, Ok, back to reality, what are the lucky numbers for this week's lottery draw, ....???:scratch2: Hmmmm, let me check , .....:scratch2::scratch2:
Cheers!
Howie, I feel rolling the 12ax7's made the biggest difference in my amp. Keep in mind that I am a (fevered, still learning, tube roller) but there is some consensus that this tube has the greatest effect on the overall sound. I liked Telefunken smooth plates and am currently trying some Sylvania triple mica 5751's (see what I mean :sigh
! Check the archives for some good info from Steve Hoffman and nsgarch, they among others have a lot to say about tube rolling. I do know what you mean about the MC2000 and lack of info but don't expect me to feel sorry for you, just a ton of envy, especially paired with the Mementos and the Avid! :thmbsp:
! Check the archives for some good info from Steve Hoffman and nsgarch, they among others have a lot to say about tube rolling. I do know what you mean about the MC2000 and lack of info but don't expect me to feel sorry for you, just a ton of envy, especially paired with the Mementos and the Avid! :thmbsp:
howiebrou
Super Member
Fair call!:yes:
I never forget how lucky we all are to even delve into hi fi as a hobby :yes:
Mustang Man
Member
I also have a MC2000. As I hear, the original Mac tubes were "Winged C" tubes from Russia. Very good tubes. But the wing C Mufactuting has ended. No more Winged C's.
I have saved my original Mac tubes (never installed) and instead installed a complete matched set of Gold Lions. Considered by many as a step up from the C's.
I'm very pleased with the results.
I have saved my original Mac tubes (never installed) and instead installed a complete matched set of Gold Lions. Considered by many as a step up from the C's.
I'm very pleased with the results.
Howie, I feel rolling the 12ax7's made the biggest difference in my amp. Keep in mind that I am a (fevered, still learning, tube roller) but there is some consensus that this tube has the greatest effect on the overall sound. I liked Telefunken smooth plates and am currently trying some Sylvania triple mica 5751's (see what I mean :sigh
I agree the 12AX7 is the tube for tube rolling in Mcintosh amplifiers. This is the first tube in the preamp section of the amplifier and seems to respond best to tube rolling. Don't bother with the driver tubes, 12AT7 12BH7... you will not hear any difference, it's more a reliability issue as this is the hardest/hottest working tube other than the power tubes. I really becomes personal preference with different sounding 12AX7 tubes. I personally went for the 3D soundstage and sacrificed a little bass. If your amplifier uses a 12AU7 tube as the first tube in the preamp section then roll the 12AU7, I dont think any Mac amps use the 12AU7 in the first position.
twiiii
Lunatic Member
I rolled tubes with my MC-60's and 240's when I could get them for 1/2 of retail or for free back in the 1960's. Davie Obrien came for a Mac clinic and we tried different tubes from GE, Mullard, Telefunken, Gold Lion, etc. And what I learned was to stick with the Tubes Mac provided . Davie use to pre select tubes for Mac Clinics when he had the time. When he didn't he would open a travel case full of tubes and go thru them one at a time until the unit under test performed as he expected. One time he got a bad batch of tubes and as we were his last stop he went over to one of our tube suppliers and bought a bunch tubes, I believe they were 7591 for the 225 and MA 230. We took over half of them back. So unless you have a Sound technology set up to test your piece to make sure the tubes are giving you the best performance, I would stick with the Mcintosh pre selected tubes.
