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RS 4 and 4B differences

OK just pulled the woofers (on my IIIBs) to make sure. What I wrote above is correct except the negative wire is red/black stripe. I offer this logical proof of out of phase. Gently push in on one of the woofers the other should extend to cancel out the motion. This is out of phase and results in little to no sound. In this sealed enclosure the woogers got to move in the same direction as each other under power. If you are remembering correctly and there is nothing weird about the wiring you are in for a real treat if you get these in phase. The one thing the infinities have over my maggies is impact. Please check and make sure they are in phase. If once in phase the bass is to much for you try the tone controls. This is the third set (My 4Bs, op 4s, and your IIIBs) that I have heard of being miswired. Makes them sound a lot like the little monitors they sell now days. (No Bass.) There really is no need for a sub with these middle infinities unless you are wholly into organ.
 
tubed said:
Before I reinstalled the drivers I did do a battery test because each drivers positive terminal had different color wires. Both cones pushed outward as they should when correct polarity is indicated. Like I said I'd never seen speakers wired like this but I had to wire back as was original to this pair. I'm listening to them at rather loud volume and I dont notice much cone excursion and while the bass is warm, low and pretty fast, the low frequencies seem to match up with the mids/highs and dont in anyway over-assert themselves....I've read that Infinity has been known to incorporate some unusual techniques for tweaking the low frequencies.:) I'm a little color blind so that blue wire might be purple.
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If you are getting your bass then I fully suspect you are not remembering correctly. I knew immediately with my 4Bs because I had the 5Bs to compare to. I also have the IIIBs and the wiring has never been changed. Please check. Pull the top woofer and if like you remember the purple/blue wire is on negative (no color) terminal switch it with the red/black stripe (Red terminal). Reassemble and listen. You may not want that much bass, but it is what infinity designed it for. The 4bs sounded really thin airy compared to the 5Bs when wired incorrectly.

P.S. Infinity did have some fairly complex crossovers, but unless they were for different frequencies (the mid bass coupler comes to mind) the wiring would not change. The 4Bs and IIIBs are just series woofers.
 
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tubed said:
Here is my attempt at graphically showing how my IIIb's woofers were wired.... (pos) blue wire______+\__/- common wire -\__/+______ (neg) red/black stripe wire. Maybe this is another form of wiring in series?
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This is exactly how mine were wired.
Just replace the word "Blue" with Solid Red, "Common" is Black, Red w/BLK stripe. All I could hear was the highs and mids with very little bass, until I swapped the Common and Red w/blk stripe on the bottom woofer.
 
Rod G-6000 said:
This is exactly how mine were wired.
Just replace the word "Blue" with Solid Red, "Common" is Black, Red w/BLK stripe. All I could hear was the highs and mids with very little bass, until I swapped the Common and Red w/blk stripe on the bottom woofer.
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I hope he gets his straightened out also. Woofers need to be in phase. The problem on the IIIBs is they made the positive red and the negative red with black stripe. Its too easy to hook red on one red terminal and and red with black stripe on the other red terminal. If there was only one woofer the red would be positive and the red/black negative. And this is exactly how it should be with a simple wire hooking the neg to the second positive of the other woofer when you have two. Back to drawings.

POs ______ + \_/ - ________ negative wire One woofer setup


Pos ______ + \_/ - _____ purple _____ + \_/ - _______ red w black stripe two woofers
 
Here's a couple more pics of my mess:

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Sansui Au-9500, RG Dynamic Processor, Carver TX-2 Tuner, Dual CS 530 TT, Infinity RS 4's & 5B's, Sansui VCR/DVDR, 37" Vizio 1080P Full HD LCD, Philips 1080P upconvert DVD, Pioneer DV-C302D DVD/CD Changer.
 
Are there holes in the surrounds? I can't see any through the grill cloth. They look like they have been re-foamed once already ( clear bullet center caps are gone.) But this is a nice looking system. Congratulations.
 
ugornot said:
I hope he gets his straightened out also. Woofers need to be in phase. The problem on the IIIBs is they made the positive red and the negative red with black stripe. Its too easy to hook red on one red terminal and and red with black stripe on the other red terminal. If there was only one woofer the red would be positive and the red/black negative. And this is exactly how it should be with a simple wire hooking the neg to the second positive of the other woofer when you have two. Back to drawings.

POs ______ + \_/ - ________ negative wire One woofer setup


Pos ______ + \_/ - _____ purple _____ + \_/ - _______ red w black stripe two woofers
Click to expand...

It's kind of interesting that Rod-G found bass lacking with the original wiring of his 4b's and Urgonaut claims bass will be increased with the wiring in my IIIb's. However I find the bass sounds very good with the factory wiring and on par with two other pairs of speakers the employ two 10" woofers that can compare to: HPM-200's and ADS l-1530's..... As to the wires pertaining to the woofers in the IIIb's there are only two originating from the crossover a Blue or purple positive and a red/black negative wire.:scratch2:
 
ugornot said:
Are there holes in the surrounds? I can't see any through the grill cloth. They look like they have been re-foamed once already ( clear bullet center caps are gone.) But this is a nice looking system. Congratulations.
Click to expand...

The 4's don't have the clear bullet centers like the 5 B's do. Well my 5's don't have them right now either. I'm still in search of one 902-5079 but the PE woofers in there now do a teriffic job.
 
tubed said:
It's kind of interesting that Rod-G found bass lacking with the original wiring of his 4b's and Urgonaut claims bass will be increased with the wiring in my IIIb's. However I find the bass sounds very good with the factory wiring and on par with two other pairs of speakers the employ two 10" woofers that can compare to: HPM-200's and ADS l-1530's..... As to the wires pertaining to the woofers in the IIIb's there are only two originating from the crossover a Blue or purple positive and a red/black negative wire.:scratch2:
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To each their own. However that is not original from the factory. There is one wire that is the same color on both of the woofers. This wire should be hooked to one negative terminal and one positive terminal. The wires coming from the crossover on my IIIBs are a red one that is positive and a red with a black stripe that is the negative. they go on the remaining speaker terminals on the woofer. The red on a red terminal. So just to recap red to positive purple to negative then to positive on the second woofer. Finally red with black stripe to negative. This is the only correct way to wire series woofers in series. As to what you hear and what you like I cannot answer to that. I can attest and confirm this is the proper wiring for series woofers for any brand if they are in the same enclosure. Also the wire colors may change due to on hand stock when they are built. I am glad you like your IIIBs, but you are either remembering incorrectly or your speakers are wired incorrectly. I am glad mine are wired right


"Here is my attempt at graphically showing how my IIIb's woofers were wired.... (pos) blue wire______+\__/- common wire -\__/+______ (neg) red/black stripe wire. Maybe this is another form of wiring in series?"


If red/black is negative why is it hooked to a positive terminal.

C'mon people help this guy out. I think I'll see if gordon will respond in here. Stand by for help.

PM sent to Gordon. Lets see if the AK gods are looking favorably on my request.
 
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You were right urgonaut! After all that back and forth, I decided to open up the speakers and found my color blindness and the unusual wire colors threw me off a positive for a negative. They are and were wired in series. No wonder they sound "right" and appreciate being set straight.
 
Well, I don't precisely remember the exact wire colors in all of these Infinity models... but, for ANY two woofers in series, it has to be the following (regardless of color of the wires) arrangement:

Positive wire from crossover --->(+) of first speaker;

(-) of first speaker --->(+) of second speaker;

(-) of second speaker ---> Negative wire from crossover.

Think of the current flow, and it'll always make sense. The current has to be going in the SAME direction in BOTH speakers..., i.e, either encountering BOTH positives first or BOTH negatives first, depending on direction of the instantaneous current flow (as it goes back and forth, naturally, it being an AC waveform)...

BTW: urgonot has it exactly right in post #44 of this thread, from my recollection of the last Infinity dual-woofer systems I have seen here at the shop. Those colors do sound familiar, in that exact relationship.

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showpost.php?p=2635250&postcount=44

Regards,
Gordon.
 
My new surrounds showed up in the Mail today. All 4 woofers should be refoamed and ready to play by Friday night / Saturday morning.
 
Had some time tonight so I was able to get all 4 woofers refoamed. Took me a little over 2 hours to do the 4. Time to let em dry and install sometime tomorrow.
The surrounds were the originals. Very surprised they held up this long.
 
Here's a few pics of the refoamed woofers. They all came out great with no voice coil rubs. I didn't cut the dust caps and shim. Just used a battery with some test leads to keep the cone up and centered. I think this is about the 8th set of Infinity's I've refoamed and haven't had a problem doing them this way....yet.
Only one of the Polydome Mids had a "Red" trim plate. I had a spare Blue plate so I installed it and all now match. While the woofers were out I sealed up the crack in the crossover plate with some epoxy so I shouldn't have any more air leaks out the back.

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Nice job RodG. Its always gratifying to bring a pair of vintage speakers back to life. I always add a strip of weatherstripping cord to insure a very tight seal to the drivers , especially those of the RS series as there is that gap between the inner flange and their outer perimeter. Lowes sells weatherstripping cord by M&D Building Supplies that works the best for me.....the glue must be dry by now for a test run:).
 
Thanks guys. The Original seals are still in great shape. It seems these spent their life in an ideal climate. Cabs aren't dried out or seperated at the seams anywhere due to moisture. I see quite a few of these like that.
The woman & child were sleeping when I finished so I restrained myself from powering up until this morning
 
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