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RT-707 Reel To Reel Sensing Tape Question

G

GaryJ73167

New Member
Hi all. I scored myself a beautiful Pioneer RT-707. One of the features of this reel to reel deck is the auto reverse function. All it needs is a piece of sensing foil to trigger when the tape reverses.

So, I bought myself a 10.5 ft. roll of the sensing foil.

It really doesn't appear to be too difficult to use. I am gonna try it out tonight and wanted to know if there is anything I need to know (or any tips) for applying this sensing foil tape.

Anything ? :)
 
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I don't own Pioneer but I know sensing tape is applied on side of the tape that goes over the head.
Very different from TEAC or others where sensing tape goes on the other side and doesn't touch the heads.
 
TR6man98 said:
I don't own Pioneer but I know sensing tape is applied on side of the tape that goes over the head.
Very different from TEAC or others where sensing tape goes on the other side and doesn't touch the heads.
Click to expand...

With that said, do you think it may damage my heads? if so, I won't use it.
 
GaryJ73167 said:
With that said, do you think it may damage my heads? if so, I won't use it.
Click to expand...
NO.... (otherwise, the engineers at Pioneer never would have designed it that way). Plus, you`re using about one inch of reversing foil on a tape that`s moving at 7 1/2 inches per second, so the exposure time is incredibly brief (literally, the blink of an eye). This is not something to lose sleep over.

Now that you`re in the R2R club, you`ll be needing the following items:
A splicing block
A roll of splicing tape
A roll of leader tape
Single-edge razor blades
(Eventually) a head demagnetizer (Annis Han-D-Mag is a popular unit)

When applying reversing foil, I will play the last song on Side One of the tape, when that song ends, reverse the direction to be sure the first song on Side Two hasn`t started yet. If that`s OK, go back to Side one, and stop the tape after the last song ends. Using a Sharpie marker, make a couple of marks on the tape, and remove the reels and tape to your work table. Cut a one-inch length of reversing foil, and carefully place it onto the tape`s surface, covering the marks you made. I use a cotton ball or Q-Tip to smooth the foil and insure good contact.

I put leaders on all my tapes, and write "AR" on the leaders to indicate the presence of reversing foil.
 
Hi,

when I was using my rt-707, I used to make sure the foil was placed on the end leader. About 6" off the end of the tape. This makes sure that the last section of the tape does get played. If you don't do this the last bit of side 1 never gets played.

Also there is a delay in the switch over to allow the Capstan Servo to get back to speed before the audio is un muted. With the foil on the leader, the first part of side 2 has a chance of being played too.

The aluminium is soft and will not harm the tape heads. Cheap low quality tape will do much more harm as some I have seen were like fine emery paper!!!!

Cheers.

GPS16
 
MaxxVolume said:
NO.... (otherwise, the engineers at Pioneer never would have designed it that way). Plus, you`re using about one inch of reversing foil on a tape that`s moving at 7 1/2 inches per second, so the exposure time is incredibly brief (literally, the blink of an eye). This is not something to lose sleep over.

Now that you`re in the R2R club, you`ll be needing the following items:
A splicing block
A roll of splicing tape
A roll of leader tape
Single-edge razor blades
(Eventually) a head demagnetizer (Annis Han-D-Mag is a popular unit)

When applying reversing foil, I will play the last song on Side One of the tape, when that song ends, reverse the direction to be sure the first song on Side Two hasn`t started yet. If that`s OK, go back to Side one, and stop the tape after the last song ends. Using a Sharpie marker, make a couple of marks on the tape, and remove the reels and tape to your work table. Cut a one-inch length of reversing foil, and carefully place it onto the tape`s surface, covering the marks you made. I use a cotton ball or Q-Tip to smooth the foil and insure good contact.

I put leaders on all my tapes, and write "AR" on the leaders to indicate the presence of reversing foil.
Click to expand...

Also psychiatric therapy......"Why in the world did you get into this tape hobby!!" :banana:
 
oblomov said:
The sensing foil never passes over the heads...does it?
Click to expand...

Not on the RT-707 and RT-909 as the auto-reverse function can't be switched off. It will pass over the heads on any other deck that the tape gets played on however, and if you have tapes already set up for auto-reversing you're going to have to go back and re-foil all of them for the RT-707 and RT-909 to reverse automatically.
 
Hi,

yes the foil always gets past the post onto the Rev Playback head. The capstan does not instantaneously reverse direction, also the capstan motor has a flywheel on the rear. By the time the motor has stopped the foil will be well into the area of the heads. More so at 7.5 IPS!!!

If the tape in question has a sensing foil at both ends, the one at the end of the reverse play side will go across ALL heads as the only thing so avert it is a "repeat" direction change to Fwd or the auto stop. On my tapes this would mean that the leader is on the head block.

GPS16
 
Hmmm interesting
That's different than my old TEAC, but then it works with the foil on the reverse side away from the heads anyway.
Never thought to ping pong with foil on both ends, not sure if that would even work on my 4010
 
There is something wrong here on GPS16's RT 's as he describes the operation of his units. When the foil hits the contact post on both the RT-707 and 909 the solenoids drop the pinch rollers instantly and the tape travel stops right then. If that is not happening then it is not operating as designed. The switch does need a little attention as it gets dirty with tape deposits from time to time. To get repeat play to go from reverse to forward that is set with a "Repeat Switch" which detects "0000" on the tape counter. That function is strictly electronic. There is no need for switching foil on the beginning of the tape. If for some reason the foil does get pulled across the heads it does make a noise, but it is no more abrasive than the tape oxide on the tape. The location of the reverse foil on the tape is most likely driven by the design of the tape travel path.
 
There is something wrong here on GPS16's RT 's as he describes the operation of his units. When the foil hits the contact post on both the RT-707 and 909 the solenoids drop the pinch rollers instantly and the tape travel stops right then. If that is not happening then it is not operating as designed.

Hi,

disagree with the above statement. The foil is NOT an auto stop!!!!!! The foil initiates a change of direction for the capstan and internal electronics to switch the replay head to the reverse one. The operation of the foil will NEVER drop the solenoids on an RT707!!!

The auto stop on this machine is is electro/mechanical with a wire loop and solenoid to enforce a stop button press.

Believe me, there was/is nothing wrong with my machine as it does/did what the schematic dictates!!!

GPS16
 
GPS16 - I do stand corrected on the RT-707. I was thinking about my RT-909 which does drop the pinch rollers on auto reverse. In your narrative about the sensing foil coming into contact with the playback head came across to me as a negative characteristic of the 707/701's and something to worry about. The negative impact of the foil coming into contact with the reverse playback head in my mind is so trivial to be non relevant. I felt that GaryJ73167 needed a little clarification on the RT-707 he has come into. We all know the RT-707 is one of the finest reel to reel out there and they will outlive many of the other brands by many years. If the foil/head contact was ever an issue Pioneer would have quickly changed that setup. Real Sensing Foil is soft aluminum and is safe to use per OEM instructions. There is a lot of "sensing foil" out there and it's origins are questionable. There are some foils that appear to be copper which I would avoid at any cost as it will oxidize. Just my two cents.
 
Hi Aldena007,

no offense taken!! Just that there was nothing wrong with the machine!!

I have not had the pleasure of a 909, unfortunately! I bought the 707 in 1979. I had saved up for months. I then, over the years, wore it out. The heads had not much left in them and a brake band failing spelled the end for the poor beast. I had then got the Revox bug. Another AKer now has it for spares. It hurt for him to take it away!!!

On a 707 when the foil hits the post, you hear relays click, the sound is muted and returns after about 5 secs. The capstan motor has then reversed and reach speed. The pinch roller(s) stays as is. The same thing happens at the other end if repeat is pressed and the counter reaches 9999. Again all rollers stay as they were.

By the sounds of it, the 909 must have a lot more logic involved in it's control. The 707 has nothing but switches and relays.

Totally agree that it is one of the best machines available. It always was. The quality that it can convey is amazing. I still play recordings done on the 707 on a Revox A700. The Revox does not in any way highlight any short comings in the quality of the 707. A cracker of a machine.

Cheers

GPS16
 
oblomov said:
Hmmm interesting
That's different than my old TEAC, but then it works with the foil on the reverse side away from the heads anyway.
Never thought to ping pong with foil on both ends, not sure if that would even work on my 4010
Click to expand...
Did you every ping pong - I have a 4010 GSL - and was wondering if that would work?? Making a tape a continuous play.
 
Greetings from RojoLand!

I don't believe the A-4010GSL can do that. Foil at the tape's tail reverses the machine, but foil at the head would just try to keep reversing the machine (it's already in reverse, so no effect). Plus, the foil at the head would reverse the machine right after you begin play unless you manually wind the tape past the head foil before playing. Machines that can "ping-pong" typically use the counter for the "go-back-to-forward-play" mode, sensing when the counter gets back to zero or just goes past it, as GPS16 noted above. The A-6300 works that way (has a "Counter Repeat" button).

Take care,
—
J. E. Knox "The Victor Freak"
 
A mistake I made after getting an RT-707 was not using a long enough piece of foil tape. I'd been reconditiong 8 track cartridges for so long, I got used to using abouf an inch of sensing tape per 8 track.

For auto reverse to work on the RT-707, I used about thre inches to trigger it.

During the course of restoring a couple of thousand 8 track tapes, I quit using a splicing block years ago. There is no need for precision cuts at the ends of a magnetic tape. Midway, where progam material is recorded is a different matter.
 
62vauxhall said:
A mistake I made after getting an RT-707 was not using a long enough piece of foil tape. I'd been reconditiong 8 track cartridges for so long, I got used to using abouf an inch of sensing tape per 8 track.

For auto reverse to work on the RT-707, I used about thre inches to trigger it.

During the course of restoring a couple of thousand 8 track tapes, I quit using a splicing block years ago. There is no need for precision cuts at the ends of a magnetic tape. Midway, where progam material is recorded is a different matter.
Click to expand...
I use about 1/2 inch on the 707 with no problems.
 
rojoknox said:
I don't believe the A-4010GSL can do that. Foil at the tape's tail reverses the machine, but foil at the head would just try to keep reversing the machine (it's already in reverse, so no effect). Plus, the foil at the head would reverse the machine right after you begin play unless you manually wind the tape past the head foil before playing. Machines that can "ping-pong" typically use the counter for the "go-back-to-forward-play" mode, sensing when the counter gets back to zero or just goes past it, as GPS16 noted above. The A-6300 works that way (has a "Counter Repeat" button).
Click to expand...

I do remember that the auto-reverse on my Sony TC-558 (which I have not had for many, many years) did use sensing foil (on the reverse side of the tape) on both ends of the tape for continuous reversing, rather than using the counter. When I got a 707 a few years ago I had to put foil on the head side of the tape in addition to what was already there from years ago with the Sony.
 
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