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SA 9100 Static on left channel - trying to repair need advice/help

sa-9100 sa9100 awg-018 awg018 parts list

xoaphexox said:
Going from 25v to 35v should be fine - I recently rebuilt the control amp assembly in a SA-9100 (replaced every single capacitor and transistor) and the thing sounds fabulous!

I got the parts list vicariously from Mark by using the google search engine. Google searches audiokarma much better than audiokarma searches itself.

To search Google for only one website's results, type something like this:

pioneer sa-9100 site:www.audiokarma.org

That will tell Google to only display results from www.audiokarma.org - VERY useful!
Click to expand...

Which parts did you use???

awg-018 c1 1uf 25v cssa 647-UKL1H010KDDANA 1uf 50v
awg-018 c2 1uf 25v cssa 647-UKL1H010KDDANA 1uf 50v
awg-018 c7 47uf 16v cea 647-UPW1V470MED1TD 47uf 35v
awg-018 c8 47uf 16v cea 647-UPW1V470MED1TD 47uf 35v
awg-018 c9 3.3uf 25v cssa 647-UKL1H3R3KDDANA 3.3uf 50v
awg-018 c10 3.3uf 25v cssa 647-UKL1H3R3KDDANA 3.3uf 50v
awg-018 c11 47uf 25v cea 647-UPW1V470MED1TD 47uf 35v
awg-018 c12 47uf 25v cea 647-UPW1V470MED1TD 47uf 35v
awg-018 c13 4.7uf 25v cea 647-UPW1H4R7MDD 4.7uf 50v
awg-018 c14 4.7uf 25v cea 647-UPW1H4R7MDD 4.7uf 50v
awg-018 c17 10uf 25v csza 647-UKL1H100KDDANA 10uf 50v
awg-018 c18 10uf 25v csza 647-UKL1H100KDDANA 10uf 50v
awg-018 c21 100uf 16v cea 647-UPW1H101MPD 100uf 50v
awg-018 c22 1uf 25v cssa 647-UKL1H010KDDANA 1uf 50v
awg-018 c23 1uf 25v cssa 647-UKL1H010KDDANA 1uf 50v
awg-018 c24 1uf 25v cssa 647-UKL1H010KDDANA 1uf 50v
awg-018 c25 1uf 25v cssa 647-UKL1H010KDDANA 1uf 50v
awg-018 c26 1uf 25v cssa 647-UKL1H010KDDANA 1uf 50v

Q1, Q2, Q3, Q4
2sa774 metal can bce 35v 50mA 0.15w 540hfe 65mhz
512-KSA992FBU (ln)to-92 ecb 120v .05a .5w 100mhz 150-800hfe $0.05 ea

Q9, Q10
2sc1478 metal can bce 35v 50mA 0.15w 540hfe 150mhz
512-KSC1845UBU (ln)to-92 ecb 120v .05a .5w 100mhz 150-800hfe $0.05 ea

Q5, Q6, Q7, Q8
2sc1312 to-92 ecb 35v 100mA 0.2w 500hfe 150mhz final I = 5mA , final w = 0.08w
512-KSC1845UBU (ln)to-92 ecb 120v .05a .5w 100mhz 150-800hfe $0.05 ea



I had asked for the list and was willing to look up the parts, as I have a 9100 in the wings, and if you wanted to share effort, you would have done the entry, I would have done the selection, and we both would have used the same (best) parts... and the list would be available to everyone in perpetuity.....

I used the same updated guidelines in parts selection that I used when I rebuilt the sa-9500 and got the spectacular results.
 
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Sorry, I didn't read this whole thread, just a drive-by post this morning - I didn't see you had asked for the list - my bad - here it is:

2SA774: 512-KSA992FBU

2SC1312: 512-KSC1845EBU

2SC1478: 512-KSC1845EBU

For the capacitors I used Elna Silmic II for values > 1uF and the WIMA box polypropylenes for the 1uF caps.

I got the transistors and poly caps from Mouser and the Elna Silmic II caps from Digikey.
 
No sweat, I was asking scott.... his cap selections are all over the map. probably didn't notice...

the ukl's as discussed somewhere else, have lower leakage current, and thus are quieter - low leakage is a characteristic of tants and solid aluminum caps - thus in sensitive spots the low leakage does count... towards quieter backgrounds... the polypro's are inherently low leakage.

silmic's are aimed towards microphonics - and after some testing here, convinced me that microphonics are still a factor at the high sensitivity end... silmics leakage is comparable to upw's - not low leakage....

xoaphexox said:
Sorry, I didn't read this whole thread, just a drive-by post this morning - I didn't see you had asked for the list - my bad - here it is:

2SA774: 512-KSA992FBU

2SC1312: 512-KSC1845EBU

2SC1478: 512-KSC1845EBU

For the capacitors I used Elna Silmic II for values > 1uF and the WIMA box polypropylenes for the 1uF caps.

I got the transistors and poly caps from Mouser and the Elna Silmic II caps from Digikey.
Click to expand...
 
Interesting - unfortunately I don't have a 10uF poly cap on hand small enough to replace those tantalums on the control board. I am not having a problem with my noise in my unit though - it will be interesting to hear his results!
 
I was not aware the importance of low leakage on these. I'm not sure if I'm the best person to try and pick the best caps for this, but I thought I'd give it a go. Now if some of these or all of these are not the best choices please let me know. I have an excel spreadsheet already made up for the SA 9100 but have not filled all the columns in yet. I'll attach the pdf since I'm not sure how to ge the excel file format to you. I guess I will need to redo this order.
 

Attachments

scottm015 said:
I was not aware the importance of low leakage on these. I'm not sure if I'm the best person to try and pick the best caps for this, but I thought I'd give it a go. Now if some of these or all of these are not the best choices please let me know. I have an excel spreadsheet already made up for the SA 9100 but have not filled all the columns in yet. I'll attach the pdf since I'm not sure how to ge the excel file format to you. I guess I will need to redo this order.
Click to expand...

You can zip the spreadsheet. The critical info is the cea, cssa, ceanl, csza etc designation, that signifies the special characteristics for the cap in that location. Then because it IS location dependent, identifying where is important : which is the aaa-nnn cxxx designations.


It was a good first try, I did no differently in my first attempts - I'm just trying to ease you past my early mistakes. The 9100 is a unit that can really shine (or be severely limited) by component choice.

I was really hoping that when you said "order", that it really hadn't been placed yet, but that list of parts gave me a sinking feeling.

Like I said, this is a collaboration, with you providing the initial data, saving me a lot of time finding and collating it all.

The bonus at the end of this process is a block of text that will go into the mouser Bill of materials entry tool, saving a lot of alphabet soup typing getting the parts specified.
 
scottm015 said:
MARK - Is this what you are looking for?
Click to expand...

scottm015 said:
I can place another order if you tell me the right (best) parts to order. I'll just use these for something else.
Click to expand...

That's pretty good, it'll take me a day or two to get back with the parts, maximum.

I always wonder how many AK'ers are reading the threads and fuming because either their gear is here waiting for work, or they're waiting in line - and when I'm posting, I'm not working at the bench. You'd be surprised how long handling the threads takes.
 
Here it is, a few things confused me (duplicates etc) at the end, and not all parts for some boards are listed.

So while it has most of the caps, not many transistors are represented, and I didn't add anything.
 

Attachments

I'm working on similar integrated pioneer amps

The SA has pre out connectors on it. This helps to narrow down the trouble by playing some sound source thru the amp with the pre out connected to another amp of some kind and listening for any "badness" If you dont find any after your warm up , it's in the power amp section.

If "badness" occurs in the pre-amp, get a can of freeze spray ( or use a can of dustoff turned upside down) While the badness is rearing it's ugly head , spray some of the small signal transistors in the pre-amp ( one by one)

Chances are you'll find one that reacts.

That's what I've found working on these two Pioneer Quads for a client of mine
 
phatterplatter said:
I'm working on similar integrated pioneer amps

The SA has pre out connectors on it. This helps to narrow down the trouble by playing some sound source thru the amp with the pre out connected to another amp of some kind and listening for any "badness" If you dont find any after your warm up , it's in the power amp section.

If "badness" occurs in the pre-amp, get a can of freeze spray ( or use a can of dustoff turned upside down) While the badness is rearing it's ugly head , spray some of the small signal transistors in the pre-amp ( one by one)

Chances are you'll find one that reacts.

That's what I've found working on these two Pioneer Quads for a client of mine
Click to expand...

NICE avatar!!! I recognize it.... hehehe.... Tim Allen's foray into sci-fi comedy.....

This amp's problem is well defined, the 2sc1451's in the power amp. He just wants to do EVERYTHING while he has it open, thus the parts list.

Which quads? 8000's 747/949's?
 
Mark - thanks for getting back to me on the list. I was out all week working and will probably be out this week as well. I got my transistors but have not gotten them installed yet so will try to get them in this week and check the response. I will place the order for the caps on the preamp board this week as well. I can't thank you enough for helping with this. I'll get back to you once I make some progress.
 
I have the same problem with my 9100 but it tends to be intermittent. Lately I have been using it in separate mode with a Dynaco ST 150 amp, I haven't had a problem with static since. Thanks Mark for the advice on how to fix the problem, I need to get around to ordering the parts.
 
I have the static whether in seperate or not seperate mode. I have isolated down to the preamp board so this is where I'm at now. I just need to get the time to replace the parts in question and then continue with a full recap.
 
Sorry it has taken me so long to get back here..

Finally I have gotten the transistors installed in the pre-amp board. I worked on the left channel first and tested the unit to find it was working like a champ and sounding very sweet. I then went back and replaced the right channel that was still good but since I was there figured I would do it too. The result after only replacing the transistors is the unit works fine. No static after playing for long durations like it was doing.

One question though I need to verify with you guys is that I used the Si transistor to replace the Ge transistor which have different characteristics and voltage drops. Would this affect sound quality? My first impression is that the unit is not sounding as good after these replacements. Sounds more tinny rather than full and sweet especially with bass response is not as soft and deep. Could just be me though and I have not replaced caps yet either. I hear faint noise on each channel but it is quiet for the most part.

I used the KSC1845 to replace the 2SC1312 and the 2SC1478 all were replaced on the preamp board. I used the KSA992 to replace the 2SA774 all were replaced on the preamp board. Again I'm just verifying that I did the right thing here. I was contemplating putting the original Ge types back in the circuit one at a time to see if the sound changes any and then possibly some of the older original Si devices as well. I really don't want to stress the traces or the devices if this probably wont matter. Let me know what you think.
 
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I used those same part numbers to refurb my SA-9100's and while I cannot answer as to the specific electrical characteristics, I can say that the results were fabulous. The units sound great. I don't think you have anything to fear.
 
Probably a stupid question but should I redo my alignment of Idle current and Neutral potential after installing these new transistors? I'm thinking that after replacement of most or any components that this needs to be done again??
 
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