Sansui 800: The King (Okay, maybe The Prince)

[birchoak]

I started recapping this beast about a year ago. At some point, it stopped working completely and I figured I had destroyed it. I couldn't bear to toss it, so it gathered dust until yesterday, when I took another look at it.

I remembered that unless FM/AM is selected, all the lights shut off except for an anemic "POWER" logo, barely visible to these eyes. It was dead in the water, then it came to life. Dirty switch? Spirits? I couldn't remember if FM worked or not; yes, it does, and extremely well. I decided to finish recapping the power amps, got it back together, took a stab at adjusting the amps, and holy cow does this little thing have some cojones. My de facto deep bass track is Fatboy Slim's "That Old Pair of Jeans," a song that does not fully reveal itself unless you have willing participants (speakers that will go low enough, an amplifier that willing to throw itself down in the mud and start wrassling). The bass was the deepest I've ever heard, easily surpassing that from larger receivers.

What is it about this receiver that gives it so much low end grunt? Is it because it's from 1969 and has a pure, simple circuit design? Is it all those biggish caps (I'm guessing it's a cap-coupled amp)? Well, whatever it is that Sansui did with this one, they did it right. And here it is, pounding out tunes like it was back in a dorm room, inches from a keg of Bud and a throng of sweaty undergrads.

Wow. Just, wow.

 

[Sansuiman]

And here we have yet another instance of the 800 getting high praise. Looks like this one may escape sleeper status quickly at this rate. Go get one today, before the average price doubles, or more. Maybe I need to take my own advice.

As to the sound, yes it is capacitor coupled, and part of the same line that begat the 2000, 4000 and 5000 receivers, so it's in good company. I guess the 1000X and 3000 are part of that series as well. I really like the 2000X and the three variants of the 5000, but it seems like the 800 has something extra special based on posts here recently.

 

[birchoak]

And here we have yet another instance of the 800 getting high praise. Looks like this one may escape sleeper status quickly at this rate. Go get one today, before the average price doubles, or more. Maybe I need to take my own advice.

As to the sound, yes it is capacitor coupled, and part of the same line that begat the 2000, 4000 and 5000 receivers, so it's in good company. I guess the 1000X and 3000 are part of that series as well. I really like the 2000X and the three variants of the 5000, but it seems like the 800 has something extra special based on posts here recently.

I haven't heard any other Sansui stuff so I can't compare, but I've listened to many amps and receivers and this is just about at the top for average listening levels. I've heard that cap coupled designs (Marantz 2230 is another) can sound really punchy and musical.

 

[stereofun]

This is TOO funny - I know in part what Sansuiman is referring too. I just recently did this review and are currently waiting for parts. The caps looks big, but that is just because they are 50 years old - the supply caps are just 2200 uf as are the tuner supply and the two outputs. Whats even more baffling are the drivers - those are tiny signal transistors, 150 mA or so.

I am going to double the supply cap, increase the outputs, add some Wima films along the way - and get some respectable drivers in as well as replacing all signal transistors. Hoping to be done by next week, where I will do a proper write up. I think this amp is on par or likely better than the 555a / 505 and is getting close to the 777's - but I cant really compare before it is restored as all the others are. We have got to keep quite about this. They are selling for cheap compared to the other more famous models....but once you crank this thing...hallelujah.

 

[birchoak]

This is TOO funny - I know in part what Sansuiman is referring too. I just recently did this review and are currently waiting for parts. The caps looks big, but that is just because they are 50 years old - the supply caps are just 2200 uf as are the tuner supply and the two outputs. Whats even more baffling are the drivers - those are tiny signal transistors, 150 mA or so.

I am going to double the supply cap, increase the outputs, add some Wima films along the way - and get some respectable drivers in as well as replacing all signal transistors. Hoping to be done by next week, where I will do a proper write up. I think this amp is on par or likely better than the 555a / 505 and is getting close to the 777's - but I cant really compare before it is restored as all the others are. We have got to keep quite about this. They are selling for cheap compared to the other more famous models....but once you crank this thing...hallelujah.

When you're in love you need to shout it from the rooftops. My bad. I would love to hear more about your specific tweaks; this thing (although it truly sounds terrible and has anemic bass and skull-splitting treble) is worthy of some attention. Because it needs it. Sounding so horrible.

 

[birchoak]

My wife and kid are tired of hearing about my stereos; you are the only people who are interested! In sub-par, unreliable receivers. Only buy the Pioneer SX-1280 or Technics SA-1000!

 

[birchoak]

I just looked at your review, stereofun (is that you in the ultra-light?)--gods, that was a find! It looks factory-fresh! And you picked it up recently? Wow, good for you! I looked for mine for a long time, and it spent a lot of time gathering dust because it wasn't running right. It's now at the top of the food chain, which is no small feat when you have 12 receivers. When I say "top of the food chain," I really mean "bottom of the food chain" as this thing is only good for sucking up mud.

 

[stereofun]

- just finished pre-amp- filter caps, supply. Tomorrow equalizer...gotta do it cuz signal passes through, then coupling and driver board. I expect nothing but misery, disappointment and bitterness - sloppy muddy bass, dry mids and smeared highs. Do not get the 800 !

Yes, thats me taking off from KAVQ in a REVO S-LSA. Just got my instructor sport pilot rating.

 

[birchoak]

- just finished pre-amp- filter caps, supply. Tomorrow equalizer...gotta do it cuz signal passes through, then coupling and driver board. I expect nothing but misery, disappointment and bitterness - sloppy muddy bass, dry mids and smeared highs. Do not get the 800 !

Yes, thats me taking off from KAVQ in a REVO S-LSA. Just got my instructor sport pilot rating.

Just watched your video. Oh dear God that looks like fun. You are young! I thought everyone here was, um, old. I look young until I take my ballcap off, then women scream and children run.

Who did the music? Is that you, too?

I liked your comments about the 800 and why you thought it sounded so good--the low transistor count, the simplicity. It really does seem like a magic box of sound which, when opened and peered at, reveals three magic beans lying on a piece of burlap.

At some point, 9090DBs will command $9000 and 800s will sell for what 9090DBs used to fetch. Supply and demand, I suppose.

How does the AU-777a compare to the 800? I'm guessing the 800 sounds 80-90% as good, but I've never heard an AU-777.

 

[stereofun]

Music is booker T & the MG's....

The 777's are tough to beat. It's remarkable that the 777 from '67 was Sansui's first venture into solid state....and they nailed it. The "a" version came as an update in 1969, supposedly near indistinguishable soundwise. AK member Smurfer77 has more amps than there are cactus in Arizona. He relates that the latest and many would agree, finest, of Sansui's engineering, were expressed in the Alpha series from the 1990's....we are talking quite sophisticated circuitry. Yet, they according to Smurfer77 sounds very much like the 777's - infact check out his thread "Au-777a vs all contenders".

The 800, sounds like a 777 - but with its own flavor. The 777a has a deep and comanding low-end, it's also damping factor 15....which is tube amp territory. The 800 is damping factor 60 which might explain what I perceive as a faster more punctuated bass. I doubt the 800 can quite match the very special mid of the 777's but it might get close, stay tuned, hopefully I can finish today.

 

[birchoak]

Music is booker T & the MG's....

The 777's are tough to beat. It's remarkable that the 777 from '67 was Sansui's first venture into solid state....and they nailed it. The "a" version came as an update in 1969, supposedly near indistinguishable soundwise. AK member Smurfer77 has more amps than there are cactus in Arizona. He relates that the latest and many would agree, finest, of Sansui's engineering, were expressed in the Alpha series from the 1990's....we are talking quite sophisticated circuitry. Yet, they according to Smurfer77 sounds very much like the 777's - infact check out his thread "Au-777a vs all contenders".

The 800, sounds like a 777 - but with its own flavor. The 777a has a deep and comanding low-end, it's also damping factor 15....which is tube amp territory. The 800 is damping factor 60 which might explain what I perceive as a faster more punctuated bass. I doubt the 800 can quite match the very special mid of the 777's but it might get close, stay tuned, hopefully I can finish today.

Lower damping factor = deeper bass? I thought a higher damping factor meant an amplifier could deal with its load more efficiently, no? I'm sure 777s go for much more green than 800s.

 

[stereofun]

Yes, higher damping factor keeps the woofers in an iron grip for tighter controlled bass, low damping factor let's the woofer swing more freely = less damping, which often translates to a "looser" bass which can sound like more of it.

777a's almost never come up for sale, 777' s a bit more often. I can't give you numbers as I am not really following that, but the 800's I've seen have been cheaper than most of the other Sansui units.

 

[birchoak]

Yes, higher damping factor keeps the woofers in an iron grip for tighter controlled bass, low damping factor let's the woofer swing more freely = less damping, which often translates to a "looser" bass which can sound like more of it.

777a's almost never come up for sale, 777' s a bit more often. I can't give you numbers as I am not really following that, but the 800's I've seen have been cheaper than most of the other Sansui units.

Hmmm. I think I like the tighter, controlled bass, but I would have to A/B to fully experience. You seem to know your stuff, and you describe things in a way I can understand. Looking forward to hearing about the modded 800 (I have no idea what I just did to the keyboard but I can't make it go back!)

 

[Sansuiman]

There is also the 777D, probably even less common than the 777A. I'm not even sure it was sold outside Japan as the only units I've seen were 100V input. Appeared to be closer to a 777A in any event. I've not found published specs for that model either, but gather it was either a later revision from the A variant, or one made specially for the JDM.

 

[SARTORE]

I'm seeing all this satisfaction with he uncovered sansui 800 but my question is: does it really sound better than other well-known Suis like the 8 deluxe or is it a kind of "unexpected sound quality" from a cheap receiver ?

Another question. It's original cabinet color is black, right? Just asking bc I saw one in white so I think it was painted...

 

[Sansuiman]

Yes, the original cabinet is black steel. There was an apparently optional wood case available, as was common for many models of receiver at the time.

 

[stereofun]

Sartore - that's a great question regarding sound quality. It is a tricky subject, as there is so much subjectivity involved, which further well might include psychological biases such exeedexd expectations, or memory lane (my first system was a Swiss made Lenco cap coupled amp mated to a Dynaco 10 inch 2-way speaker....my psycho therapist wife would say...aha, there is your imprint, your first reference) - further you have rig synergy etc etc.

I am guilty as charged of using words like best or better, which really - and only can - mean "in my opinion" which mean that this truth only is valid for me. Now if several people forms the same opinion, then you might talk about a consensus, evenso that can never trump individual experience.

With that out of the way it is my experience that amps can do different things. When I had a 517, I used it for all movie stuff as it handled complexity very well and kept a solid projection. However for music, especially vocals and jazz, its "competency"sounded a bit flat, so for music only, I would use the 777a, which just sounded more "real", yet could not keep the speakers in an iron grip during a "saving private Ryan" war scene. The 999 is my main driver today and covers av + pure music sessions very well.

My Eight Deluxe, has a wonderful punchy, detailed and speedy sound, it's rhytmic and quite musical, but a bit dry and clean in the important mid section, it has not been recapped yet, but a bit of the same was the deal with my restored non-deluxe Eight. Here the restored 999, has more lushness on tap, but can lack a bit speed and punctuation, but is overall the best.

At the end of the day I think amps can fit into different roles, so rather than best it should be "best for".

You really can and should have more than one wife ;-)
------------------------------
P.s if you don't hear from me, ever again, my wife caught that. Look on eBay for a great collection of Sansui's for sale.

 

[spark1]

I'm seeing all this satisfaction with he uncovered sansui 800 but my question is: does it really sound better than other well-known Suis like the 8 deluxe or is it a kind of a "unexpected sound quality" from a cheap receiver ?

Another question. It's original cabinet color is black, right? Just asking bc I saw one in white so I think it was painted...

Sansui made some very nice amps and receivers. For me, based on my own experience, the 800 can be surprising if you have no expectations for it...but it is not in the same league as the Eight, Eight Deluxe, or many of the later integrated amps and receivers.

 

[stereofun]

I agree - there is no way the 800 in specs nor in build is in the same league. Its hard to beat a X17/9 series or the build of an Eight with individual resistors for tone controls. And there might be a bit of a surprise element too. I am focused on the sonics - and to even go there you have to like that early SS cap coupled sound that it shares with the 555's,777's, 2000's etc.etc. It has impressed me enough to undertake a full restore, which I should have a write up with pics this coming week. I am keenly aware of the limitations of these designs - distortion, channel separation, inherent noise, yet - some of those early designs, the 777a in particular - to me is sonically superior to some of the later amps, as long as you can accept some deficits on the power and distortion levels.

 

[spark1]

I agree - there is no way the 800 in specs nor in build is in the same league. Its hard to beat a X17/9 series or the build of an Eight with individual resistors for tone controls. And there might be a bit of a surprise element too. I am focused on the sonics - and to even go there you have to like that early SS cap coupled sound that it shares with the 555's,777's, 2000's etc.etc. It has impressed me enough to undertake a full restore, which I should have a write up with pics this coming week. I am keenly aware of the limitations of these designs - distortion, channel separation, inherent noise, yet - some of those early designs, the 777a in particular - to me is sonically superior to some of the later amps, as long as you can accept some deficits on the power and distortion levels.

I was referring primarily to sonic performance. But of course, such preferences are personal.