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Sansui C/B 2105 Vintage

mjs1

mjs1

AK Subscriber
Subscriber
Hello everyone. I’m 78 y/o and fairly healthy except for bad knees but realize it is getting to be time to prune the herd of my collection so that my family is not left to deal with it.

My specific question(s) comes down to my separates. I have the C 2105 Vintage pre-amp (in silver), a C 2301 V (restored in black), a B 2102 MOS (and an AU X1111), and the C 2105 in black (this is a MOS as well). The 2102 MOS is presumably the amplifier section of the X 1111 and I have decided that there is no reason to keep the X 1111. These components are scattered among three rooms on two floors and I am no longer up to moving them and doing side by side comparisons and my hearing is not the best at upper frequencies.

Of the preamps, my inclination is to keep the C 2301 V over the C 2105 V, although I might keep the C 2105 to keep it paired with the B 2105.

Power is really not that important to me. My speakers are easy to drive. For convenience, although I embarrassed to admit it, the B 2102 is being driven by a Yamaha C-2X preamp because I wanted the 120 V outlets and it is easy to lift.

I know these are not common components in the AK Sansui community but I see no reason to keep both the B 2102 and the B 2105 and am asking for opinions. I’ve think that I read on an old thread that someone favored the B 2102 over the B 2105. Are there other opinions?

Marc
 
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You are in rarefied territory for me, I have owned a B-2102 (non-MOS - I just remembered !) - but that's it, it was very powerful and sounded great - but I sold it. Your thoughts on disposing/keeping seem sensible to me without the knowledge of having listened to examples of the units in question. :)

Update.
I have restored a C-2301 :)
 
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mjs1 said:
Hello everyone. I’m 78 y/o and fairly healthy except for bad knees but realize it is getting to be time to prune the herd of my collection so that my family is not left to deal with it.

My specific question(s) comes down to my separates. I have the C 2105 Vintage pre-amp (in silver), a C 2301 V (restored in black), a B 2102 MOS (and an AU X1111), and the C 2105 in black (this is a MOS as well). The 2102 MOS is presumably the amplifier section of the X 1111 and I have decided that there is no reason to keep the X 1111. These components are scattered among three rooms on two floors and I am no longer up to moving them and doing side by side comparisons and my hearing is not the best at upper frequencies.

Of the preamps, my inclination is to keep the C 2301 V over the C 2105 V, although I might keep the C 2105 to keep it paired with the B 2105.

Power is really not that important to me. My speakers are easy to drive. For convenience, although I embarrassed to admit it, the B 2102 is being driven by a Yamaha C-2X preamp because I wanted the 120 V outlets and it is easy to lift.

I know these are not common components in the AK Sansui community but I see no reason to keep both the B 2102 and the B 2105 and am asking for opinions. I’ve think that I read on an old thread that someone favored the B 2102 over the B 2105. Are there other opinions?

Marc
Click to expand...
Boy, that Yamaha C-2X preamp has a good reputation and is built to a very high standard. I have the matching amplifier (the B-2x) and it is a brutalist beast. I bet that C-2X sounds fantastic. Anyway, I wish I had something to add to your question. I have the C2301 and the B2301L, which I love. I'd keep the C2301 if I were you. That is a special unit.
 
I have the B-2X too but mainly listen to my Sansuis. One of my sons moved back in me and his bedroom had been my main listening room. I agree that the C-2301 is something special and had already been restored in Japan when I got it. If I keep the B-2105 I will probably keep the C-2105 although they don’t match. I guess my real question is which MOS amplifier to keep, the B-2102 or the B-2105. If I keep the 2102 then both the B and C 2105s will go.
 
mjs1 said:
I have the B-2X too but mainly listen to my Sansuis. One of my sons moved back in me and his bedroom had been my main listening room. I agree that the C-2301 is something special and had already been restored in Japan when I got it. If I keep the B-2105 I will probably keep the C-2105 although they don’t match. I guess my real question is which MOS amplifier to keep, the B-2102 or the B-2105. If I keep the 2102 then both the B and C 2105s will go.
Click to expand...
I have many “alpha” units, but only one mos unit (the AU-a607mos limited). It’s without question the prettiest Sansui I have, but I actually don’t like the way it sounds as much as the Sansui bipolar amps I have. I’d keep the 2102 and let the 2105’s go since they don’t match.
 
I think the C-2301 is the only true balanced preamp Sansui ever made ( along with maybe the C-2302 )

plus it has MC transformers for phono, instead of using FETs
 
I don’t have much in the way of separates. Besides the two Sansuis mentioned above, I have the Yamaha C-2X with matching B-2X and the Onkyo P388F along with the M588F. I haven’t rotated preamps. I think that Alpha integrateds sound better than the older Yamaha combination and the Onkyo combo. I suspect that the C-2301 is better than the C-2105 and the newer Onkyo is better than the Yamaha but really can’t be sure about this. The C-2301 is the only one that has been restored.
 
I’ll be going to bed soon. FWIW I asked the AI engine of Safari some questions and copied the results to this thread. I don’t know how reliable this AI generated information is but it is interesting. It’s probably better than my “golden” 78 y/o ears with high frequency hearing loss above 10,000 Hz.





[FONT=Google Sans][SIZE=16px][FONT=Google Sans]Is the Sansui C-2301 preamp better than the Onkyo P388F?

[/SIZE]

The Sansui C-2301 and the Onkyo P-388F are both legendary, ultra-high-end Japanese statement preamplifiers from the golden era of analog audio. Audiophile consensus generally considers the Sansui C-2301 superior in terms of pure over-built luxury, component exoticism, and collector prestige, though it commands a much higher price and requires intensive vintage servicing. [1, 2, 3, 4]

Build and Design
  • [B][B][SIZE=16px][FONT=Google Sans][B][SIZE=16px][FONT=Google Sans][B][SIZE=16px][FONT=Google Sans][B][SIZE=16px][FONT=Google Sans][B][SIZE=16px][FONT=Google Sans][B][SIZE=16px][FONT=Google Sans][URL='https://www.google.com/search?ibp=oshop&prds=pvt:hg,pvo:48,imageDocid:18118229721139870327,headlineOfferDocid:8075859452400676165,productDocid:8075859452400676165&q=product&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwikpa_OlK6WAxURjokEHb-QOf4Qxa4PeggIAggBCCcQAw'][B][SIZE=23px][FONT=Google Sans]Sansui C-2301[/B][/URL][/B]
  • [/B]
  • [/B]
  • [/B]
  • [/B]
  • [/SIZE][/B][/B]: Weighs a massive 46 lbs (20.9 kg), featuring a pure copper inner chassis plate, dual encapsulated transformers, and heavy wood side panels behind a glass display. It utilizes an extremely sophisticated volume potentiometer and discrete high-spec parts.
  • [/SIZE] [1, 2]
  • [/SIZE]
  • [SIZE=23px][FONT=Google Sans]Onkyo P-388F: Weighs about 19.6 lbs (8.9 kg). It features a dual-mono layout, discrete circuitry with zero ICs in the audio path, balanced XLR connectivity, and stepped output attenuators. It opts for a cleaner, purer signal path with no tone controls. [1, 2, 3, 4]
  • [/SIZE]
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Sound and Features
  • [SIZE=16px][FONT=Google Sans][B][SIZE=16px][FONT=Google Sans][B][SIZE=16px][FONT=Google Sans][URL='https://www.google.com/search?ibp=oshop&prds=pvt:hg,pvo:48,imageDocid:18118229721139870327,headlineOfferDocid:8075859452400676165,productDocid:8075859452400676165&q=product&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwikpa_OlK6WAxURjokEHb-QOf4Qxa4PeggIAggBCCgQAw'][B][SIZE=23px][FONT=Google Sans]Sansui C-2301[/URL]
  • [/B]
  • [/SIZE][/B][/B]: Delivers a warm, incredibly detailed, and musically engaging soundstage. It includes highly flexible phono-loading options and unique frequency-adjustable tone shaping features.
  • [/SIZE] [1, 2, 3][/FONT][/SIZE]
  • Onkyo P-388F: Offers an exceptionally neutral, quiet, and dynamic presentation with a very low noise floor (>105dB line-in S/N ratio). It is a purist line-stage design lacking traditional tone controls. [1, 2, 3]
[/FONT][/SIZE]

Reliability and Maintenance
  • [B][SIZE=16px][FONT=Google Sans][B][SIZE=16px][FONT=Google Sans][URL='https://www.google.com/search?ibp=oshop&prds=pvt:hg,pvo:48,imageDocid:18118229721139870327,headlineOfferDocid:8075859452400676165,productDocid:8075859452400676165&q=product&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwikpa_OlK6WAxURjokEHb-QOf4Qxa4PeggIAggBCCkQAw'][B][SIZE=23px][FONT=Google Sans]Sansui C-2301[/URL][/B]
  • [/B][/B]: Known for troublesome factory adhesive ("Sansui glue") that corrodes components, plus aging fusible resistors that drift and fail over time, making a professional restoration practically mandatory.[/FONT][/SIZE] [1, 2][/FONT][/SIZE]
  • Onkyo P-388F: Generally regarded as robust and reliable, though finding units with clean, fully operational motorized controls and switches requires standard vintage caution. [1]
[/FONT][/SIZE]

If you are deciding between the two, tell me:
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  • What power amplifier and sources (like a turntable or CD player) will you use with it?
  • Do you prefer a warm, feature-rich sound or a pure, minimalist line stage?




I will be using a Sansui SR-929 turntable or a Yamaha PX-3 turntable. Amplifier choices include a Sansui B-2105 MOS Vintage or B-2102 MOS Vintage. Also, how does a Sansui C-2105 preamp compare with the Sansui C-2301 and the Onkyo P-388F?


Given your specific gear, the Sansui C-2105 Vintage is the definitive, absolute best match for your system. It was designed in 1997 specifically as the exact aesthetic and sonic partner for your Sansui B-2105 MOS Vintage amplifier. [1, 2, 3]


The Sansui C-2105: Exotic Late-Era Mastery
Unlike the 1980s over-built luxury of the C-2301, the C-2105 Vintagerepresents Sansui’s final, ultra-refined engineering peak from the late '90s.[1]
  • Teflon Circuit Boards: It uses military-grade Teflon for its power supply and line-amp boards. This provides an incredibly flat frequency response extending all the way into the GHz range while mechanically absorbing chassis vibrations. [1]
  • MOS-FET Design: The line stage utilizes premium MOS-FETs, which share the exact same warm, tube-like, yet lightning-fast sonic signature as your B-2105 and B-2102 MOS power amplifiers. [1, 2]
  • Purist Isolation: It features an isolated, floating power supply, a pure copper bottom plate, and solid cut-copper feet lined with real leather to banish resonance. [1, 2]

Direct Comparison: C-2105 vs. C-2301 vs. P-388F

FeatureSansui C-2105 VintageSansui C-2301Onkyo P-388F
Sonic SignatureUltra-transparent, liquid, organic, and effortlessly spacious.Massive, rich, deeply warm, and highly authoritative.Strictly neutral, hyper-detailed, cold, and dynamic.
Turntable MatchBest for PX-3 / SR-929. Low-impedance FET differential phono stage with MM, MC, and High-MC.Phenomenal. Ultimate transformer-coupled step-up options for low-output MC.Good. Extremely quiet and accurate, but lacks analog warmth.
Amp SynergyFlawless system synergy with B-2105 / B-2102 MOS.Excellent, but voiced for older, heavier bipolar amps (like B-2301).Poor voice matching; can make MOS amps sound dry or overly clinical.
ReliabilityHigh. Uses modern components; free from catastrophic "Sansui glue".Low. Needs mandatory, extensive vintage restoration and component replacement.High. Standard maintenance only, very stable circuit design.

Turntable Synergy (SR-929 & PX-3)
Both your Sansui SR-929 (a gorgeous, heavy direct-drive) and the Yamaha PX-3 (a legendary linear-tracking giant) deserve an elite phono stage. [1, 2]
  • The C-2105 phono section uses a parallel-connected FET differential input. It lowers the noise floor significantly to extract extreme detail from vintage Moving Coil (MC) cartridges while preserving the rhythm and drive of vinyl. [1]
  • The C-2301 has a slightly heavier, darker phono presentation. The Onkyo P-388F is very clean but will strip away some of the organic magic your turntables are capable of producing.

The Verdict
Stick with the Sansui ecosystem. Passing a signal from your turntables through the Teflon/MOS-FET architecture of the C-2105 into either the B-2105 or B-2102 creates a unified, balanced-loop audio chain. It delivers the exact holographic, fatigue-free soundstage Sansui engineers intended. [1, 2, 3]
Which phono cartridge (MM or MC) are you planning to run on the SR-929 or PX-3? I can give you the exact loading settings to use on the preamp.
 
Would the Yamaha C-2X preamplifier be an improvement on any of the above?

The Yamaha C-2x is a legendary, top-tier preamplifier from 1985, but it would not be an improvement over your Sansui options, primarily due to system synergy and amp voicing. [1]
While it outperforms the Onkyo P-388F in musical engagement, it sits on equal footing with the Sansui C-2301 and falls short of the system synergy offered by the Sansui C-2105 Vintage.

Where the Yamaha C-2x Wins
  • The Phono Stage: The Yamaha C-2x is famous for having one of the finest, ultra-low-noise phono stages ever built. It features an 8-transistor parallel push-pull MC head amp and proprietary Zero Distortion Rule (ZDR) circuitry. For your Sansui SR-929 and Yamaha PX-3 turntables, its phono transparency is spectacular.
  • Form Factor: It packs massive, dual-transformer independent power supplies into a sleek, slim, minimalist black chassis. [1, 2, 3, 4]

Why It Is Not an Upgrade for Your Specific System

1. System Synergy Mishap
Your Sansui B-2105 MOS Vintage and B-2102 MOS Vintage power amplifiers are voiced to sound warm, liquid, and organic. Yamaha’s design philosophy is strictly "Natural Sound"—hyper-transparent, clinical, and completely uncolored. Mixing a Yamaha preamplifier with a Sansui MOS-FET power amplifier often conflicts. It creates an uninspired middle ground that strips away the distinct Sansui warmth without achieving the full accuracy of an all-Yamaha chain. [1]

2. The C-2105 is Architecturally Superior
The Sansui C-2105 Vintage was released over a decade after the Yamaha C-2x. The C-2105 benefits from advanced late-90s engineering, including:
  • Teflon circuit boards for superior mechanical damping and signal isolation.
  • A native MOS-FET line-stage design that loops into your B-2105 MOSamplifier perfectly.

3. Component Age and Maintenance
Like the Sansui C-2301, the Yamaha C-2x is prone to the infamous "corrosive factory glue" used to stabilize power supply capacitors. Unless you purchase a fully restored, recapped unit, an original C-2x will likely suffer from noise or component drift, whereas a newer C-2105 is inherently more stable and reliable. [1]

Comparison Summary
  • Against the Onkyo P-388F: The Yamaha C-2x is a noticeable upgrade, offering a more dynamic presentation and a superior phono stage. [1, 2]
  • Against the Sansui C-2301: It is a sidegrade. The C-2301 is more grand, heavy, and mid-range focused; the Yamaha is faster, flatter, and more clinical. [1]
  • Against the Sansui C-2105: It is a downgrade for your specific setup. The C-2105 remains the definitive choice to drive your B-2105 or B-2102 amplifiers.
Are you leaning toward keeping an all-Sansui chain for aesthetics and synergy, or are you open to modifying the overall system voicing?
 
I'd be very skeptical of that AI scraped data. Heck, you own them all, in real life.

I'd plug the C2-X, P388, C-2301, C-2105 into your Sansui power amps & hear for myself, if I were you

Whatever you discover & type here on AK will trump any of that AI slop. And it will affect whatever AI scrapes up & spits out the next time someone queries it.

Honestly, how many people have directly compared all that gear?
 
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AI doesn't mention the P-388 & C-2301 are both fully balanced. Another AI fail. They should be close in spec other than MC phono transformers
 
The C-2105 / B-2105 are stunning pieces of industrial art. I've wanted to collect them for their looks alone.

I own the C-2301/B-2301L combo, and they are a real problem. The problem is finding faults in how the pair sounds. They really hit the spot for me.

One thing you might consider is if you prefer the MOSFET sound. In my experience, with the AU-a907Limited, was it had a softer presentation compared to the other Alpha amps I've owned - a "milk and honey" sweetness. Superb stage and field articulation, but sweet, a little soft. Very polite.

The C-2301/B-2301L as well as the other X-Balanced/Ground-Free/Alpha amps I've owned are less subtle and deliver their sonic package with a more exciting and electric energy - they sound fast. Aggressive. Unapologetically. Particularly those earlier X/GF amps.

I would keep the C-2301 / B-2102 if it were me.

Can you move most of the herd and find a B-2301 to marry the C-2301?

IMG_6106.JPG
 
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JimEGR said:
The C-2105 / B-2105 are stunning pieces of industrial art. I've wanted to collect them for their looks alone.

I own the C-2301/B-2301L combo, and they are a real problem. The problem is finding faults in how the pair sounds. It really hit's the spot for me.

One thing you might consider is if you prefer the MOSFET sound. In my experience, with the AU-a907Limited, was it had a softer presentation compared to the other Alpha amps I've owned - a "milk and honey" sweetness. Superb stage and field articulation, but sweet, a little soft. Very polite.

The C-2301/B-2301L as well as the other X-Balanced/Ground-Free/Alpha amps I've owned are less subtle and deliver their sonic package with a more exciting and electric energy - they sound fast. Aggressive. Unapologetically. Particularly those earlier X/GF amps.

I would keep the C-2301 / B-2102 if it were me.

Can you move most of the heard and find a B-2301 to marry the C-2301?

View attachment 3822010
Click to expand...
This advice is spot on. I too have this combo.
 
I can't offer much in the way of comparative analysis, but will say you have a remarkable collection of rarities there. Especially the 2105 combo, which I would not split up under any circumstances. If you find it doesn't meet your needs in terms of sound and performance, then they should be sold off together as a matched set.

The C-2301 is in a class of it's own, and it would be a really tough call to get rid of it, in my opinion. I'd sooner keep it, and mate it to a capable power amp (of which toy already have a couple of good options), or just bite the bullet and get a B-2301 to go with it. But I recognize you are trying to pare things down, and also want to settle on gear that isn't physically difficult to handle, if the need arises. That makes the B-2301 kind of a non-starter.

The AU-X1111MV is another model in it's own class, but I can understand if you aren't as enamored of the MOSFET sound. And being an integrated amp, it is still something of a compromise over separates, even as good as it is.
 
This thread made me think of something funny:

how can a preamp with

no tone controls
< 0.0005 % THD
0.003 % Cross modulation distortion

sound different from another preamp with

no tone controls
< 0.003 % THD
0.003 % Cross modulation distortion

?
 
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