Sansui SP-200 speakers

[billyz]

I recently picked up a pair of Sansui sp-200 speakers. They are in very nice condition, Grills too! Anyway, initially they sounded very muddy and congested. Lots of bass though. First I cleaned the selector switch and that got the mids working on one and the tweeters on the other. Now all the speakers were working. The Tweeters on the one were kind of weak sounding though. Anyway, I played them for a week or so. I got a Sansui QRX3500 and a SR1050c real cheap too. I thoroughly cleaned and serviced them , They worked! So after a few days I noticed the speakers sounding better, the tweeters were starting to wake up ? I decided to upgrade the crossover caps. I used the Dayton Metalized film , I also used some Audiophiler caps from CE Distribution for the woofer. I decided to bypass them with .1 mfd caps I had left over from modifying a Marantz CD player. you can see in the pics that I paralleled two caps on the woofer , a 20uf and 3.3uf. I noticed some of the pics I found of the sp200 crossover had 22uf and mine had 24uf. so I split the difference. The 24uf rolls off a little more. its a 12 db butterworth I believe. Hot melt glue to the board, you can see I had to mount the 20uf off the board to the back panel.

I also found a few loose screws, the woofer, the speakers connectors, the tweeters, etc. I torqued the back panel evenly.

Anyway, WOW. They are much more transparent and dynamic, there is Air now. My wife says they sound much better, like a blanket was removed from them. The bass slams tight now, more air, vocals project. I also added some mortite to the drivers backs and the port tube to damping any resonance. Also, Sealed the port tube where it meets the baffle as I could see daylight around it.

The QRX3500 is only 22w per channel. Sansui speakers get a bad rap probably due to old bad Electrolytic caps. I paid $50 for the speakers and $50 each for the QRX and The SR1050c. , What a deal!
By the way, my other system is a pr of Merlin VSMs, CJ premier 11a, CJ PV12, Lenco with Lyra Helikon and alot of mods. No, The sansui's will not replace the Merlins !










Billy Z

 

[4-2-7]

Welcome to AK an a very nice job you did there. Maybe some pics of the whole speaker would be good to.:thmbsp:

 

[billyz]

Welcome to AK an a very nice job you did there. Maybe some pics of the whole speaker would be good to.:thmbsp:

Thanks, I'll try to get some pics of the outside of the speakers too. I have always loved the look of early sansui gear, pioneer as well. I have an 5000x that really rocks. I had so much satisfaction getting these sounding good that I just bought a pair of sp-2500. Hopefully , they will turn out well. I'll drive them with the 5000x. I ordered some Solen fast caps and will use the same .1uf bypass.
I used deoxit and 600 grit paper on the selectors.
Once when I blew a 6550 in the CJ 11a, I used the 5000x with the Merlin's and was in no hurry to put the 11a back in service. It sounded excellent.

 

[drbiggles]

Hey mang!

Yeah, I too would like to see the outside as well. Am in the process of getting 4 SP-3500's up on a QRX-6001 and a pair of SP-1500's up on a Scott 222c. Would love to hear a pair of the 200 and the 300's.

Using bypass caps only works it's magic when using non-polar electrolytics on the main capacitor. Am glad you recapped them before stating your review, thank you! My 1500's probably sound a lot like yours did. My caps will be arriving at some point next week!

Biggles

 

[billyz]

I did not know if the bypass caps would make a difference and I was too lazy to try with and without. I read they did and others say waste of time. I'm going to measure the old NP caps soon, just for my own interest. I can hear the difference power cords make so I am in the camp of believers I guess.

 

[billyz]

Totally against my hifi ethic but I like these at moderate to low volume with the control on the back set Natural and the loudness button on. Im listening to FM right now and they sound really nice. LP's on the el cheapo SR1050 sound very good and dynamic with the shure M104e cartridge it came with. This is my BUDGET system !
My wife says I can put them up on the stone fireplace hearth, as soon as I buy enough cheap zip cord and hide it under a floor concealer.
She even brags to our friends about the stereo I got cheap.

Billy Z

www.billyz.net

 

[drbiggles]

Hey,

Yeah baby, those look nice. AND, while I was typing, the mail just came! I received all the capacitors to do 2 SP-3500's and 2 SP-1500's! YEAH !!!

Listen and enjoy brother man. I got audio work to do.

xo, Biggles

 

[4-2-7]

Very nice Billy and it's a good thing the wife is on board with the looks and sound of what your doing.

 

[billyz]

Important Update. I was able to move them to the fireplace hearth. Its about 16-18" high. Limestone, 12' long. Got the cheapo wire from Home Despot, 16ga. got them slightly angled in , maybe 9-10' apart, WOW. My wife found a fm antennae , T wire. The FM on the QRX3500 is great. Listening to a Classic Jazz station here in Spokane.
These Speakers sound great. The string bass is so tuneful and solid all the way down the low E. Pianos, Voices, Horns, Drums , Congas They all sound killer and very natural.
If you have not recapped your sansui's then you have no idea what they sound like.
I measured the old NP Electro's with my restored Heathkit It-28. They all were so bad I don't know how they even sounded any good at all. The caps all leaked at the lowest voltage, 6v, well one of the 2.2uf did not leak at 15v.
They all were so far out of tolerance that it was absurd. I threw them in the can.
The more these Film caps break in, the smoother and sweeter they sound.
I do not know if the bypasses helped but they did not hurt.
I am going buy every old Sansui Speaker I can find for a reasonable cost.

I am working on a set of 2500's right now. They were not in as nice of condition, but the speakers all seem good. Putting Solens, bypassed with film n foil orange drop 716p. The crossovers are much more difficult to recap though, the glue they used is industrial strength. I'm dremeling it out now.
Get your Sansuis recapped and off the floor, you'll be very surprised.

billy z

www.billyz.net

 

[miles2go]

Thanks for posting your results of your Sansui's... You reminded me that I need to open mine up to see what I need to order for caps. I picked up a beautiful set of SP-100's a few weeks ago, they look almost identical to yours. They were manufactured in 66' and the previous owner had even saved the boxes. I love the lattice fronts and walnut veneer. I paired them up with my Fisher KX-90 and they sound nice indeed...

Good job on yours... :thmbsp:

 

[drbiggles]

I am going buy every old Sansui Speaker I can find for a reasonable cost.

billy z

Me too. At the moment, all a seller has to do is do a quick search and they'll find out immediately how "lousy" Sansui speakers are. Some of them price them accordingly. If they actually took the time to put new capacitors in them, they'd know differently.

I got my SP-1500's recapped yesterday, will put them back together this morning. I have a VERY inexpensive Craftsman, battery powered, vibrating multi-tool. It has a cutting blade that kinda looks like a sharpened putty knife. I can slide it right under the glued on capacitors and it cuts them off the board within moments. Pow.

For the crossovers that seem to be permanently connected to the plastic crossover cover on the back, they can be separated easy. Find the binding posts on one side, flip the crossover over, find them on the circuit board. See where they come through? Using a large tip on your soldering iron, heat them up. The crossover circuit board and the plastic tray will fall to pieces in your hands. Then you can replace the capacitors as they were meant to and not just cutting the leads.

Using metalized poly caps over the same for bypass caps do no harm, and they do no good. I had this very nicely explained to me by Mr. Crazy Scientist man, an acquaintance of mine. And since it was way over my head, and I didn't write it down, I cannot regurgitate the information. If you want bypass caps to work, you have to use non-polar electrolytics with metalized poly caps as the bypass caps.

Back to my Lab to work on Sansui Speaker Projects!

xo, Biggles

 

[billyz]

Regarding the crossovers on the 2500's.
If I had one of those tools I would have used it. But I used what I had . I did just cut the old caps out and soldered to the tails with a curly wrap. The Sp-200 were much easier as the old glue just popped right off. Im breaking the 2500's in now and the low end is improving rapidly and the top end is sweetening up nicely.

The 200's keep getting better n better as well. I'm sure if I positioned them a little closer together and used better wire they would just be even better. They are very revealing as it is. I switched cartridges last night on the SR-1050. I had a odd Empire 5000hpt with a new stylus, .002x.007 I believe. Wow, much better than the shure with the no name replacement stylus. It was pure sonic heaven on the Doobie brothers and Dire Straits . The bass is so solid , I would say better than the Merlins with the BAM. I would never even consider a sub woofer. I am certain now that all the bad press about sansui speakers is due to bad caps and dirty switches, and no break in after long years of non use.

 

[drbiggles]

The 200's keep getting better n better as well. I'm sure if I positioned them a little closer together and used better wire they would just be even better. They are very revealing as it is. I switched cartridges last night on the SR-1050. I had a odd Empire 5000hpt with a new stylus, .002x.007 I believe. Wow, much better than the shure with the no name replacement stylus. It was pure sonic heaven on the Doobie brothers and Dire Straits . The bass is so solid , I would say better than the Merlins with the BAM. I would never even consider a sub woofer. I am certain now that all the bad press about sansui speakers is due to bad caps and dirty switches, and no break in after long years of non use.

I'd have to agree, 40 year old, inexpensive electrolytic capacitors are no place to be. I don't have enough time on my 3500's, yet. My bass is a little shy on more modern music, such as the B52's or Justin Timberlake. But when I play music that lives in the midrange, the speakers sound completely different. They just jump to life, it's a amazing.

I haven't yet fully auditioned the SP-1500's on the Scott 222c, maybe tomorrow.

Biggles

 

[billyz]

I'd have to agree, 40 year old, inexpensive electrolytic capacitors are no place to be. I don't have enough time on my 3500's, yet. My bass is a little shy on more modern music, such as the B52's or Justin Timberlake. But when I play music that lives in the midrange, the speakers sound completely different. They just jump to life, it's a amazing.

I haven't yet fully auditioned the SP-1500's on the Scott 222c, maybe tomorrow.

Biggles

Give them some time, I ran the loudness control on and had the bass turned way up at first. It was still pretty light. But I let them play on. Then noticed I had way too much bass, turned the bass down a little then a little more. I let them play all day, next day even more bass. Now I'm running them bass flat. I also noticed the high end smoothed out after a few days too.
I am pretty sure these had not been in service for a long time, so they stiffen up, need to break in again.

 

[drbiggles]

Give them some time, I ran the loudness control on and had the bass turned way up at first. It was still pretty light. But I let them play on. Then noticed I had way too much bass, turned the bass down a little then a little more. I let them play all day, next day even more bass. Now I'm running them bass flat. I also noticed the high end smoothed out after a few days too.
I am pretty sure these had not been in service for a long time, so they stiffen up, need to break in again.

I'm going to agree with your assessment. I remember the surrounds on this pair were actually on the stiff side. I think I remember 4-2-7 stating that he hadn't used them in quite a while. The pair I drug home 2 weeks ago, also from him, had less stiff surrounds. I believe these had been in service not too terribly long ago.

I ended up having to buy another crossover for the last and 4th 3500, it's not due to arrive until the end of the week. Once I get that in my hands, I can get it recapped and the second pair into place. I'll have 4 3500's and 2 1500's in the living room. Speaking of which, I will have time to myself this afternoon and am looking forward to letting the 1500's run for a few hours on tubes. These right out of the gates sounded wonderful.

Biggles

 

[billyz]

I would love to run a quad of these. Not sure the other half will have them in the living room though. Im currently running the 2500's down in my shop with a sansui 5000X, got them up on cardboard boxes, they sound great. I might swap them out for the sp-200.

Last night listened to Ry Cooder , the Doors and Steely Dan on the Qrx3500 , SR-1050/empire and the Sp-200. So good.

 

[drbiggles]

I would love to run a quad of these. Not sure the other half will have them in the living room though. Im currently running the 2500's down in my shop with a sansui 5000X, got them up on cardboard boxes, they sound great. I might swap them out for the sp-200.

Last night listened to Ry Cooder , the Doors and Steely Dan on the Qrx3500 , SR-1050/empire and the Sp-200. So good.

Swap n swap! I would like to get my hands on a pair of 2500's, been looking. The 5000 series receivers also interest me, but they go for a little more than my mad money at hand. I keep my fingers crossed! Barter Town can really come up with some great deals, if you keep looking.

You mention working in the cloth surround for some time, to loosen them up a bit. I can't believe I completely forgot about this, but this same conversation has been had before. There are a few other links, but here's the one I found right off the top of my head. So far, no treatment has been discovered, I think.

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/archive/index.php/t-565910.html

Biggles

 

[billyz]

Swap n swap! I would like to get my hands on a pair of 2500's, been looking. The 5000 series receivers also interest me, but they go for a little more than my mad money at hand. I keep my fingers crossed! Barter Town can really come up with some great deals, if you keep looking.

You mention working in the cloth surround for some time, to loosen them up a bit. I can't believe I completely forgot about this, but this same conversation has been had before. There are a few other links, but here's the one I found right off the top of my head. So far, no treatment has been discovered, I think.

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/archive/index.php/t-565910.html


Biggles

Id be careful of using chemicals. I did that on a set of Sansui woofers I have and ruined one of them. I used acetone and a filament transformer to loosen them up. It worked but I created too much excursion on one and damaged the voice coil.
I just play them with lots of bass for a few days and they loosen up well .
no special treatment is needed.

 

[drbiggles]

And, I believe that's where it was left.

Am waiting impatiently for my replacement crossover to show up ...

Biggles

 

[scorpio333]

I just recapped my SP-1200's yesterday and love them again. I run mine on a Jolida tube amp. I've found a set of SP-200's but can't get any return communication. They were priced good enough for me to want them to compare to the 1200's. Now stop talking about Sansui speakers, the prices are going to go up!