damacman
Resident Psycho
http://vinylhive.com/mcintosh-mc2505-the-solid-state-amplifier-that-change-the-world/
One of my very favorite Mc amps. I'm a Sansui owner as well.
Sansui vs McIntosh
- Thread starter dbrown
- Start date
One of my very favorite Mc amps. I'm a Sansui owner as well.
kevzep
Its all about the Music
McIntosh's are not warm, if they are, there's something wrong with them, they are powerful, punchy, detailed and accurate sounding, I have heard a LOT of McIntosh gear, and "warm" is not an adjective I'd use.
The MC2505/250 was the first solid state power amp they made, and the design of that amp was so well engineered it was some time before they replaced it...MC2015/2100 fits into the same boat...
I completely restored a MC250 (Same amp is the 2505 but without the meters), and i unplugged my G22000 pre-amp from the power-amp section, plugged the MC250 in, and it seriously, despite being a little less than half the power of the Sansui power-amp, Blew the Sansui out of the water....utterly and completely.
However, generally speaking, you need to go to McIntosh separates like a C28,29,30,32,33 pre-amp and at least a MC2505 maybe a MC2205, and that alone will be about 3 times the amount of money you want to spend...
My C33 pre coupled with the MC2205 is pretty hard to beat driving the JBL L7's......but then there's there's my main system, not exactly "bang for buck" but who cares when you're listening to it!!
The lower end MA1700/1900 etc are not anything that special, and I would personally take a G9000 or similar over something like that....An AU999 with my mod's would blow one of those out of the water, easily...
For a that budget I'd say Sansui, plus, if problems arrives this forum is very kind and share tons of info.
Several years ago I owned a Mac MA-6200 integrated. Nice amp. Owned it for several years. One day decided to to an A-B with a few of my Sansui components and decided to sell the Mac. Now this is not one of Mac's best but there was no real difference to me.
At the time I also owned an MC-2105 and sold it quickly. I restored it fully but was not impressed with the bass. To me it was not tight enough.
One of the best all-around sounds I have heard is from a Sansui 771 Receiver. If fact, friends and did an A-B with the 771 and a Dynaco ST-70 amp. It was virtually indistinguishable to our ears.
At the time I also owned an MC-2105 and sold it quickly. I restored it fully but was not impressed with the bass. To me it was not tight enough.
One of the best all-around sounds I have heard is from a Sansui 771 Receiver. If fact, friends and did an A-B with the 771 and a Dynaco ST-70 amp. It was virtually indistinguishable to our ears.
Brad Muller
Super Member
Sansui G9000 my favorite. I do miss my old Mac 4100 though.
dbrown
New Member
Thank you all again for the great responses. The AU series has really great styling and looks great on display, especially those with wood cases (555, 666, 888). My issue with having her get the AU777 or 7900 is the fact that they look more technical.
I shot her pics of the x0x0 series (7070/8080/9090) and the eights. Will see what she thinks.
As for sound, it seems that the most consistent Sansui favs are: 9090DB (but be ready to work on it), Eight Deluxe, xx1 series (I personally had the 771 and loved it), and G9000.
As for McIntosh, I am not hearing anything that justifies the additional spend. It is true that I posted this in a Sansui group...perhaps that was the wrong call. Not sure if there is a McIntosh group, but if there is it may behoove me to post the same question there as well and then share the highlights.
FYI: As for speakers, I am thinking Allison Fours, AR-2a, JBL L100 or L26, or Celestion SL6 (not sure how much room she has).
I shot her pics of the x0x0 series (7070/8080/9090) and the eights. Will see what she thinks.
As for sound, it seems that the most consistent Sansui favs are: 9090DB (but be ready to work on it), Eight Deluxe, xx1 series (I personally had the 771 and loved it), and G9000.
As for McIntosh, I am not hearing anything that justifies the additional spend. It is true that I posted this in a Sansui group...perhaps that was the wrong call. Not sure if there is a McIntosh group, but if there is it may behoove me to post the same question there as well and then share the highlights.
FYI: As for speakers, I am thinking Allison Fours, AR-2a, JBL L100 or L26, or Celestion SL6 (not sure how much room she has).
Would play in the McIntosh area if the entry price was not so high. IMHO to justify MC gear requires everything else in the audio chain be comparable in audio quality otherwise you would not justify the one or two piece expense. Quite happy in my Sansui pond of goodness. Spend the left over cash on upgrades to speakers and input sources and listen away. Might also mention that earlier in the thread someone said stay away from the xoxo dolby series of Sansui receivers. Hmmm, I have a full on rebuilt G9000 and a full on rebuilt 8080db and to my ears at low levels the 8080bd sounds better through modded Forte's. At concert levels the big G shines though and also wins in the sheer mass department, but then again the blue dial and yellow meters of the 8080db look sharp in a dim room.
I would be scared as hell to spend $500-$1k of someone else's money on something that is probably older than they are.
Think about it, these old stereo's are really ticking time bombs unless they are fully restored. I see regularly G-8000/9000 in the $1K range in original condition and wonder when they will go pop. It is just a matter of time and they will leave someone scratching their heads, now what to do. Throw more money at them than what you paid to begin with, if you ask/pay for a tech to restore them. Unless you are an experienced tech and know how to fix these old beasts, I'd say good luck to you. Be warned, your friends might not be so happy with you if they go pop, you do not know how to fix them and get a quote from a experienced tech..
What is wrong with buying something new, with a warranty? B.S. if you think that you can not buy anything new that compares these days.
smurfer77
Super Member
I have an almost complete set of the best Allison range. Sansui is a great match. Dont overlook the little 555A (555 is not wood case by the way and is similar in looks to 777). Eight D has crazy bass with the allsion. Listening to an 888 now on parallel Allison One and Three. Superb.
Just post an invitation link to this thread in the McIntosh forum, and they will come a runnin.
dbrown
New Member
Good point. I have a tech here that I would buy from. My original plan was a 555a that has been gone through or even recapped. Same with the speakers - something that someone has worked on. I have asked if she would rather new/vintage/ or new that looks like vintage. She just wants the vintage look I think. Do you recommend anything new that has that same look/feel and sound? I do not.
I have had some bad luck with old stuff, but mainly I have had wonderful experiences with vintage equipment, so I may be biased.
sKiZo
Hates received: 92644 43.20°N 85.50°W
Why not both? <G>
I drive the MC2205 off the front channels of the Sansui QRX 9001 ... whatever blows yer hair back, and that combo certainly puts up a pretty stiff breeze. <G>
+1 on avoiding the Sansui's with the dolby boards. Repairing one of those is not for the newb DIYer, and it'll cost you an arm and a leg to have it done RIGHT professionally. Well worth it when done though, as those only show up in their TOTL receivers.
Just in case you're not taking that seriously - here's a pic of my 9001 during restoration. Not trying to scare you off ... or am I? <G>
PS ... don't ignore the quad units during your search. The QRX 6001 and 7001 don't have the dolby board issues, yet sport the TOTL decoders. Also a fan of the QR4500 and QR6500 - less advanced decoders, but still quite tasty. Even if you don't plan to do quad, they have the rich Sansui sound AND you can drive an entire house full of speakers in two channel mode.
Post up a similar thread in the Mac forum and see what you get. Don't tell them about this one and all us Sansui Fan Boys here promise to stay out of it ... it'll be our little secret. <G>
I drive the MC2205 off the front channels of the Sansui QRX 9001 ... whatever blows yer hair back, and that combo certainly puts up a pretty stiff breeze. <G>
+1 on avoiding the Sansui's with the dolby boards. Repairing one of those is not for the newb DIYer, and it'll cost you an arm and a leg to have it done RIGHT professionally. Well worth it when done though, as those only show up in their TOTL receivers.
Just in case you're not taking that seriously - here's a pic of my 9001 during restoration. Not trying to scare you off ... or am I? <G>
PS ... don't ignore the quad units during your search. The QRX 6001 and 7001 don't have the dolby board issues, yet sport the TOTL decoders. Also a fan of the QR4500 and QR6500 - less advanced decoders, but still quite tasty. Even if you don't plan to do quad, they have the rich Sansui sound AND you can drive an entire house full of speakers in two channel mode.
Post up a similar thread in the Mac forum and see what you get. Don't tell them about this one and all us Sansui Fan Boys here promise to stay out of it ... it'll be our little secret. <G>
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That's not a 9090DB, it's a QRX-9001. The 9090DB is a breeze compared to the 9001.
IMO, the 9090DB is pretty easy to work on. About 5 minutes to remove the entire tuner section, which really opens it up to service.
And, for what it's worth, I've had the separate MACs here too. Don't get me wrong, I did enjoy some of them, but not enough to buy/keep any.
Rob
IMO, the 9090DB is pretty easy to work on. About 5 minutes to remove the entire tuner section, which really opens it up to service.
And, for what it's worth, I've had the separate MACs here too. Don't get me wrong, I did enjoy some of them, but not enough to buy/keep any.
Rob
captouch
Addicted Member
My personal opinion: Unless the vintage unit you're looking at has been restored or at least recapped, I wouldn't spend a lot on it unless you can recap it yourself or have access to a very reasonably priced tech who can do it. Whatever you spend initially, be prepared to spend another $300+ to get it worked on later. Most units can be recapped for less than $100 in parts, but the labor can be expensive.
If working well as bought, you can run it as is for as long as it works, but it's likely just a matter of time before something goes wrong that needs repair because the units are 40+ yrs old. At that point, you will have to diagnose what failed and repair that. Tracking down the problem can be non-trivial, though AK members are very helpful and can help you track down problems - but you have to be willing to get your hands dirty and have a minimum set of tools to do any diagnosis and repair,
About Mac vs Sansui - the cheaper Mac receivers (1900 for example) would generally be at least $500 unrestored. I have one, and it sounds nice and laid back, but warm and less detailed than my other vintage receivers. Other models will go for more - often a lot more.
I've had multiple Sansuis - 7070, QR-6500, Eight Deluxe - depending upon the generation and design, they can sound quite different, though all sounded good to me. Sansuis will generally start around $200 and go on up from there. Sansui had a ton of models, so you'll likely have better luck finding a good deal on a local Sansui that you can check out before buying vs a Mac.
If it were me, I'd look for a well priced, pretty Sansui for under $300 and keep some $ in reserve for when it inevitably requires some work to be done to it. At that point, you have a choice to invest some $ to repair and restore, or sell for what you can get for it and buy another to use as long as it lasts.
If you're open to other brands: '70's Sony units can be awfully nice sounding units and often go for cheap. Sherwoods look like the other classic receiver brands, but also often go for less. Kenwoods also seem to be less appreciated and often sell for good prices.
If working well as bought, you can run it as is for as long as it works, but it's likely just a matter of time before something goes wrong that needs repair because the units are 40+ yrs old. At that point, you will have to diagnose what failed and repair that. Tracking down the problem can be non-trivial, though AK members are very helpful and can help you track down problems - but you have to be willing to get your hands dirty and have a minimum set of tools to do any diagnosis and repair,
About Mac vs Sansui - the cheaper Mac receivers (1900 for example) would generally be at least $500 unrestored. I have one, and it sounds nice and laid back, but warm and less detailed than my other vintage receivers. Other models will go for more - often a lot more.
I've had multiple Sansuis - 7070, QR-6500, Eight Deluxe - depending upon the generation and design, they can sound quite different, though all sounded good to me. Sansuis will generally start around $200 and go on up from there. Sansui had a ton of models, so you'll likely have better luck finding a good deal on a local Sansui that you can check out before buying vs a Mac.
If it were me, I'd look for a well priced, pretty Sansui for under $300 and keep some $ in reserve for when it inevitably requires some work to be done to it. At that point, you have a choice to invest some $ to repair and restore, or sell for what you can get for it and buy another to use as long as it lasts.
If you're open to other brands: '70's Sony units can be awfully nice sounding units and often go for cheap. Sherwoods look like the other classic receiver brands, but also often go for less. Kenwoods also seem to be less appreciated and often sell for good prices.
You are never going to find something new that looks like the old ones, that is for sure.
Can you find something that performs as well, of course you can. Does it appeal to the buyer, well that is subjective. My point is that the person who is shelling out the $ understands what they are getting into.
Like I said a crap shoot. If you are willing to service them, then you are much better off.
say for instance the tuner does south, even experienced Ak'ers have difficulty fixing/aligning tuners.
Good luck