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Schiit Freya +

Ross6860

Ross6860

Super Member
Only day one, but I'll leave a few first impressions. This is installed in a bedroom system.

The most recent pre-amp used in the system was an APT Holman. I have also used a Yamaha A-S301 integrated. Source is an Oppo UDP-203. Speakers are Klipsch RP-600m. Amp is an ATI 1502.

The Good - It sounds good from what I have heard so far (passive and SS). Both ends of the spectrum are extended. I was able to turn off the subwoofer. No issues with too much output at the bottom of the volume control (the APT is much louder right off the stop). Plenty of adjustment (no big jumps in the stepped attenuator/resistor ladder).

The "Bad" - Pretty sure it arrived with at least one bad tube. It sounds like sh!t, not Schiit, using the tubes. It runs hot. Really hot with tubes. Even using the SS buffer it runs very warm.

I may be sending it back due to the heat it generates. The room is too small to deal with the extra heat. Running it with an Aegir would only make things worse.

Once I get the tube issue sussed I'll give it a try with the main system. The heat won't be an issue in that space. I doubt it will displace my Parasound JC2, but you never know...

I'll report back in a few days.
 
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Still no luck with the tube stage...

I was incorrect about any heat issues using the SS buffer. It's fine. No excess heat.

I've had mostly the SS buffer running since Friday. I'm pretty happy with it. I did listen to the passive buffer for maybe 30 minutes, and it was also very nice. Not that I've had dozens of pre-amps to compare with, but it's more quiet than any I've tried short of the Parasound JC2. The remote is all I need, volume, mute, input select, and "stage".

The attenuator relays are loud, a well-known "feature". I'll get used to it.

I find I'm deep into the volume control. Still more left to go, but this is a zero-gain unit (passive and SS buffer), so I guess I'm not surprised.

I did install a known good pair of Sylvania short "chrome top" 6SN7 in the voltage gain position. I turned the tubes on and it was quiet. I played it for maybe 5 minutes and thought I had it solved and went back to the SS buffer since I wasn't going to be in the room for several hours.

Settled in for bed and figured I would listen to the tubes for a while. Turned them back on (zero volume, full attenuation) and before I could even listen to anything I got a huge POP out of the speakers. I mean really loud. Followed by a second slightly lower-volume POP before I could hit the mute and turn the pre-amp off.

I was looking at the speaker when it POPPED and I'll say I have never seen the woofer cone move like that before. Kind if gun shy now. I may hook up some less expensive speakers and try it again. Will definitely be on the horn with Schiit on Monday. Hopefully it's just a tube issue.

So much for their fancy "Whisper-Silent Tube Stage". Like always, don't leave your tube gear unattended.

May have a keeper after all if they can get the tube issue sorted out.

More to come...
 
Wow, that pop issue is strange. I don't know what you mean by, "zero volume full attenuation". Zero volume means the dial is turned all the way counter clockwise, pinned on zero if you will. How some kind of "full attenuation" can be achieved, or what that means, has me puzzled. Attenuation is volume, no?

Anyway, I've had the Freya+ for about 2 years and never had or heard of any pops like that in the extensive reading I've done on it. Hopefully you can get that sorted, this is the best pre I've ever had. As an Adcom fan, I'm wondering if your 565's are acting up?

The heat is normal. Mine runs in tube mode and starts to feel slightly warm after a 1/2 hour until it gets hot to the touch. Not unbearably, but still more than warm.
 
runnin' said:
Wow, that pop issue is strange. I don't know what you mean by, "zero volume full attenuation". Zero volume means the dial is turned all the way counter clockwise, pinned on zero if you will. How some kind of "full attenuation" can be achieved, or what that means, has me puzzled. Attenuation is volume, no?

Anyway, I've had the Freya+ for about 2 years and never had or heard of any pops like that in the extensive reading I've done on it. Hopefully you can get that sorted, this is the best pre I've ever had. As an Adcom fan, I'm wondering if your 565's are acting up?

The heat is normal. Mine runs in tube mode and starts to feel slightly warm after a 1/2 hour until it gets hot to the touch. Not unbearably, but still more than warm.
Click to expand...

Exactly. The volume was "fully attenuated" (fully CCW). Even with the volume fully CCW I experienced horrible "noise" which I would describe as "tube farts". I also experienced the loud POPs with the volume fully CCW.

I've had several pieces of tube gear, and a whole slew of tube guitar amps, so I've heard the "tube fart" noises before. I also have a tube tester I need to drag out and see if I can tell which tube(s) are bad. I have had tubes test good and still be unusable, and yes my tube tester has been gone through.

The Adcom 565s are in my main system driving Magnepans. I'm using an ATI 1502 power amp with the Freya+.

Bottom line, it's a tube issue. I swapped the factory tubes around until I found two "good ones" to pair with the Sylvanias I knew were good (they came out of my old pre-amp when I sold it). I was able to listen to the tube stage for a couple hours last night with no errant noises.

Now I have to put my regular speakers back in and give a listen. I was happily surprised at how the little Music Hall Marimbas sound. I haven't listened to them for probably two years. Still pretty decent for a tiny speaker.

I've read about Schiit shipping bad tubes, so it's not a huge surprise. At least it appears nothing important was damaged.
 
Schiit should test those tubes before sending them to customers. Potential damage due to faulty tubes is not a normal part of new tube gear.
 
ibog1 said:
Schiit should test those tubes before sending them to customers. Potential damage due to faulty tubes is not a normal part of new tube gear.
Click to expand...

Agreed. This is not some $100 Chi-Fi tube amp. It is also not the first I have heard of the Freya+ coming with bad tubes out of the box.

They are sending another quad of tubes, which is OK, but would they have replaced a blown speaker?

I'm assuming they burn in their gear. One would think they would use the tubes they are shipping it with so they know everything works. That's probably over-simplifying things.
 
I will say it does sound nice. I'm digging the passive stage as much as the tubes.

I got to listen to MFSL DSOTM on the tube stage last night at a pretty loud level and was very satisfied.

So for serious listening I'll use the tubes, but for casual listening and background noise I can just run the passive volume control.

This puppy is unity gain with the passive and SS buffer, and only 12 dB gain available with the tube stage, so as I stated earlier, you are deep into the volume control (at least I am).

Matching this with the right power amp may make a big difference in your results. I'm guessing it will pair well with any of Schiit's power amps. No Schiit...
 
Ross6860 said:
I will say it does sound nice. I'm digging the passive stage as much as the tubes.

I got to listen to MFSL DSOTM on the tube stage last night at a pretty loud level and was very satisfied.

So for serious listening I'll use the tubes, but for casual listening and background noise I can just run the passive volume control.

This puppy is unity gain with the passive and SS buffer, and only 12 dB gain available with the tube stage, so as I stated earlier, you are deep into the volume control (at least I am).

Matching this with the right power amp may make a big difference in your results. I'm guessing it will pair well with any of Schiit's power amps. No Schiit...
Click to expand...

Yeah, the sound is stellar, and tube mode just has that something extra. It'll get better gradually past 30 hours or so. The volume is not set up like receivers and integrated amps of yesteryear, where volume increase is weighted to the first half of the dial. It's a true .5 db increase all the way and with my sources I can be past 3 o'clock in passive. My amp takes 2.1 volts to reach unity, and the Freya complements it very nicely.
 
runnin' said:
Yeah, the sound is stellar, and tube mode just has that something extra. It'll get better gradually past 30 hours or so. The volume is not set up like receivers and integrated amps of yesteryear, where volume increase is weighted to the first half of the dial. It's a true .5 db increase all the way and with my sources I can be past 3 o'clock in passive. My amp takes 2.1 volts to reach unity, and the Freya complements it very nicely.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the sanity check. I probably have about 50-60 hours on it. Only a few hours max on the tubes, maybe 2/3 passive and 1/3 SS buffer for the balance. I'm also at 2 o'clock-ish and my "indicators" on the power amp are barely flickering. This particular amp the indicators can be solid green and not be anywhere near being overtaxed. I can't find a full spec sheet for the 1502, but the replacement 1802 is rated at 1.6 Volts in for rated power out.

I'm just used to the APT Holman's stepped attenuator. It's a higher gain pre-amp (18 dB) and only has a 32 step attenuator. On the same system it is literally running no more than 8 steps, typically 4 or 6 and not uncommon to be at 2 or 3. It makes audible output at 1 click. It is obviously a "hotter" pre-amp. Output is rated at 7 Volts max, or 2 Volts for rated specs. About the only complaint with the APT is sometimes I want the volume level to be between steps, oh, and it doesn't have a remote.

The Freya+ is staying.:)
 
Yep, it's a keeper. I've read that some think the ideal combo is a tube pre and a SS amp. I'd always been in the solid state camp, but I'll never go back now!
 
Schiit's tubes are, well, ****.

They were kind enough to send me a second quad of Tung Sol tubes. They are also bad, or at least one tube is bad.

More mild popping noises followed by one big one that had the dogs jumping straight up out of a sound sleep. I had to switch back to passive mode.

Back to my old Sylvanias for a few more hours. Of course, I'm now outside the 15-day return window.

I'm hoping it is tubes and not something wrong with the tube circuit in the pre-amp.
 
I have a Freya+ on order. It is very popular right now as they are back ordered into April.

I am curious if you are using SE (RCA) or Balanced (XLR) outputs and/or inputs? If not, is it possible to test both to see if there is any difference in the problem? The Freya+ is said to be fully differential balanced both in and out with the XLRs. It also converts SE input to balanced output in the SS and tube mode. Pretty slick actually which is one of the reasons I’m going to try it out.

I really don’t mean to flame Schitt but they do have a bit of a reputation. It is great to see a US company pursuing audio equipment with such vigor while still making very affordable products. A really tough game to be profitable in. But way too many stories of consumers having problems immediately after first use. Others having absolutely no problems.

Personally I think they have a quality control problem as their designs are done very well and exceptionally well considering the price point. Construction and component selection are also impressive considering the price point.

Even the best equipment can show problems after years of use but to have a new product fail right out of the gate is not acceptable. These type of problems should be very easy to catch in production and before shipping. The problem is when you are a volume producer such testing can quickly add up to a very high operating expense. I’m sure they do some basic testing in final inspection but an extensive stress test should show problems like this, tubes and all.

My guess is the Schitt business model requires the customer to do the final inspection? They cross their fingers, and if they don’t hear back from the customer, they assume the unit is a good one. If they do hear back, they just R&R.

I can’t argue with the math but customer perception can only bare so much? Lucky that the company has an exceptional reputation for customer service. My guess it is more than just tubes. Maybe an error that exposes problems with weaker tubes?

I would send it back and ask for another. A bit of a roll of the dice but if you get a good one, with good tubes, I think you may have a keeper. I certainly hope I am lucky with mine.
 
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I second #stoutblock... the only reason I would buy a Freya+ is for the balanced inputs, and more important outputs, so that I could run monoblocks. Would be good to hear some experience with the balanced outputs from the OP, if possible.

On a second point, I'd like to give a +1 to the OP running a pair of Klipsch RP-600m with proper power (or rather with huge headroom)! I often run my 600m's with my Proton D940 receiver. Although rated for 'only' 40 watts, its got 6 dB of headroom (it basically operates like a 160 watt amp into 8 ohms, . The 600m's sound fantastic, even without my subwoofer (normally I use my 600m's as fronts for my video rig).
 
Guys, it definitely looks like it's an issue with the new Tung Sols.

Ran all 8 of them on my Hickock, and all tested well above spec. Unfortunately, I have had tubes test fine and not function well before. My tester is a mutual conductance type, so it's usefulness may be somewhat limited.

I have a Vintage 47 Oahu guitar amp that uses either a single 6SN7 or 6SL7. I installed six (6) of the new Tung Sols and with four (4) of them the noise was terrible. Two (2) were just OK. Running a vintage 6SN7 or a new Tung Sol 6SL7 the amp is quiet.

I'm running the SE outputs to my ATI 1502.

I do have a headphone amp/pre-amp (not a Schiit product) that uses balanced inputs. Maybe I'll try it this weekend, but I don't think that's the issue.

There was a reason I sold all my tube gear.:mad: Maybe I should have bit the bullet and just found another JC2.
 
No dice last night. Rice Crispy treats are not what I want to hear during quiet passages.

It's going back to Schiit. I'm right at 15 days, so it was send it back or keep it...

It's a real shame. The passive and buffered circuits are nice, but it was purchased for a little of that tube magic. Maybe it has too much (I know, a bad joke).
 
I was hoping you exchanged it as I sure would like to hear about one of these working well. My guess is the next one would be fine.
 
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