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Separates vs Receivers

Loner

Loner

Member
I'm continuing to read a lot of threads on Marantz vintage equipment. I remember picking up and reading every piece of Marantz literature "in the day" and reading them during classes...:nono: I almost purchased the 4400 but settled instead on the 2250 w/cabinet. Wish I hadn't sold that thing!

Anyway, I understand whichever route I go (separates vs. receiver), that I'll more than likely have to get the unit(s) restored. Once restored, I'm not interested in tinkering with them afterwards. In other words, I don't want any issues. I've been reading that some folks have had issues with the 120's, 3800's and 3650's...just to name a few. At the same time, other folks responding to the OP's issues state that they have had zero problems from day one with that same unit.

What are your thoughts re the reliability of parts and the units themselves once restored?

Tuners: 125/150/20/20B/2130/Other
Pre: 3250/3250B/3600/3650/3800/Other
Amp: 300DC/240/250/250M/500/510/510M/Other
Receivers: 4400/2325/Other

How important is it to match separates? For example, could I get a 150 and match it to a 3800 and 300DC? Will a 2130 go with a 3800 and 510? I’m guessing that the best combo would be a 2130, 3650 and 300DC.

It would be nice to have separates to get that "little extra" in sound, however, I'm not interested in purchasing a unit knowing that the model has "historical" technical issues. Is it even possible to tweak, say a 4400 or 2325, so the amp/pre/tuner sections are very close to the best Marantz vintage separates?

What say you kind folks???:music:
 
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Your room , listen preferences, speaker choice and on and on... all play into your choice of the system.

But the reliability of a proper refurbed unit will be just fine.

Some units are known for some "historical" issues. The 500 is known for weak outputs...that was the result of pushing the state of the art at the time. Modern output transistors easily revolve that issue.

Most of the "historical" issues can resolved by better quality parts that are available today. Some separates and receivers have been known to have some historical issues.

Any unit can be tweaked... Its a question of time and money you want to spend.

Receivers being close to the best separates ? Again depends on your testes and all the variables...

With the right speakers.... I still love my 2270. But it really can't do what my separates can....

jk
 
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Separates will get a "little extra sound." I'd say the 510M/3800/150 set or the 300DC/3650/2130 set are the ones to get but be prepared to fork over the dough and then some more for a re-cap. Once put right, these are statement pieces that you will enjoy for years to come. I have all of them except for the 150. Soundwise, the 510M is huge with what seems to be bottomless energy. The 300DC is more cultured but also powerful.
 
I know this is a no no on this board and I am now subject to immediate execution, but here it goes. I would stay FAR away from the 3650 and 300DC. UNLESS you are prepared to fork over some serious professional restoration cash. If you can accept failures in stride, then go for it. The 3650 is problematic with it's bazillion connections that can turn intermittant. I couldn't unload mine fast enough!

I've found over the years that a decently restored reciever can perform just as well as most of the separates. Yes, if you need that last 1% of sound quality and 99% emotional support - go with the biggens. But a little research on your needs and wants can find you a wonderful reciever.

Pieces like the 250, 170DC, 3600, 3800, 3250 are rock solid. Matched properly with the matching amp you'll do fine. Properly restored they will last you your life time.

Also don't underestimate the integrated amps.
 
airtime said:
I know this is a no no on this board and I am now subject to immediate execution, but here it goes. I would stay FAR away from the 3650 and 300DC. UNLESS you are prepared to fork over some serious professional restoration cash. If you can accept failures in stride, then go for it. The 3650 is problematic with it's bazillion connections that can turn intermittant. I couldn't unload mine fast enough!

I've found over the years that a decently restored reciever can perform just as well as most of the separates. Yes, if you need that last 1% of sound quality and 99% emotional support - go with the biggens. But a little research on your needs and wants can find you a wonderful reciever.

Pieces like the 250, 170DC, 3600, 3800, 3250 are rock solid. Matched properly with the matching amp you'll do fine. Properly restored they will last you your life time.

Also don't underestimate the integrated amps.
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True, my 3650 is not trouble free and true, the connectors cause cracked solder joints. However, when right, this is a nice sounding preamp.

I'd disagree with your assessment of the 250, this unit is a 1972 amp and does not have proper DC speaker protection. The 3600 and 3800 both have a 12 pin IC for source switching (IIRC), this IC is unobtanium but there is a workaround.

I also disagree that separates gives only 1% better sound. Having owned most of the receivers, I can tell you this is not true.
 
Thanks for all the replies!

So, If I understand, the 3650 will eventually be problematic because of the connectors/solder joints. There is no workaround for this.

The 500 can have the original output transistors go out but these can easily be replaced with modern parts. Will replacement parts change the sound? Resale value?

the 250 may or may not have speaker protection.

The 3600/3800 both have 12 pin IC's that are not replaceable BUT there's a workaround. Will the workaround change the sound? Will the workaround cause other issues down the road?

Why is the 300DC problematic?

I didn't see anything mentioned re the tuners. What are your thoughts on the mentioned tuners? I like the looks of the 150 the best but understand that the 2130 is probably the cats meow...

Are there any models to stay away from due to OEM and modern parts being unavailable or there are no workarounds?

Thanks folks!
 
It's difficult as well as unfair to label 30+ year old components without first stating that they will be bought used. I can only speak for myself here.
I bought my Marantz set (300DC, 3650, 2130) new back in 1978. I've had little problems over the years with them. The usual transistor or capacitor going south, the 2130 needing the tuning capacitor cleaned, the 3650 switches needed cleaning (I live 1/4 mile from the Atlantic Ocean so that's expected) but that's over a three decade period as well as many hours of enjoyment.
That said, used gear can fall into many catagories including tampering with as well as abuse or untested modification. As a buyer of that gear you have no way of knowing what you're getting until you open it.
As a owner of this gear since new, I can say that the original design of the three is first rate. In no way (for personal safety reasons) should they be tampered with without a full understanding of what you're doing.
 
I must apologize for being so critical about higher ended gear. So please let me rephrase it with a more subjective tone.

When you get into the high end gear you are in the upper limit of quality sound and construction. However you need to understand that it does come some responsibility to properly use it, care for it and maintain it. It's like driving a Ferrari. And as with ANY high powered gear it also includes being ready to deal with expensive repairs.

First, you should figure out what level your needs are. Then - most importantly - your budget. And that should include some restoration work as well. This applies to any vintage piece, marantz or non-marantz (what's that?)

As for unobtainable parts. I'm finding that many of the separates seem to have that problem. Where as the recievers seem to use more common parts. With some output transistors aside. But the failure rate on a 250 or the 3x00 preamps is extremely low. As a matter of fact I've found most of the receivers to be built VERY tough and able to take a beating.

As for tuners - Marantz made some really good ones. Even the lowly 104-105 were sweet. I had a 105 for several years. So what I'm saying is with any tuner you can't go too wrong. However there was one that was a dog. I think it was the 2120????. The 125 and 150 are the same exact tuners with exception of the o-scope. Which IS not replacable. Also a lot depends on the signal quality of your area. If it's like mine you're going to have to think of other options. I eventually had to go digital with a Sony HD tuner. But again that's due to MY situation.

How it the reception in your area?

All in all I've found that a good receiver can sound just fine. Find yourself an nice clean 2275 and sit back and enjoy the ride. Looks great, sounds great and built like a tank!!!!

charles
 
airtime said:
I must apologize for being so critical about higher ended gear. So please let me rephrase it with a more subjective tone.

When you get into the high end gear you are in the upper limit of quality sound and construction. However you need to understand that it does come some responsibility to properly use it, care for it and maintain it. It's like driving a Ferrari. And as with ANY high powered gear it also includes being ready to deal with expensive repairs.

First, you should figure out what level your needs are. Then - most importantly - your budget. And that should include some restoration work as well. This applies to any vintage piece, marantz or non-marantz (what's that?)

As for unobtainable parts. I'm finding that many of the separates seem to have that problem. Where as the recievers seem to use more common parts. With some output transistors aside. But the failure rate on a 250 or the 3x00 preamps is extremely low. As a matter of fact I've found most of the receivers to be built VERY tough and able to take a beating.

As for tuners - Marantz made some really good ones. Even the lowly 104-105 were sweet. I had a 105 for several years. So what I'm saying is with any tuner you can't go too wrong. However there was one that was a dog. I think it was the 2120????. The 125 and 150 are the same exact tuners with exception of the o-scope. Which IS not replacable. Also a lot depends on the signal quality of your area. If it's like mine you're going to have to think of other options. I eventually had to go digital with a Sony HD tuner. But again that's due to MY situation.

How it the reception in your area?

All in all I've found that a good receiver can sound just fine. Find yourself an nice clean 2275 and sit back and enjoy the ride. Looks great, sounds great and built like a tank!!!!

charles
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Yeah, the top sets are going to cost some serious coin. The 2275 is a good recommendation. IMO, the sweetest receivers and best built are the 2285 and 2330 (both non-B versions). They do not have the dual core caps and the internal layout is much better than the B versions. You can get these for a fraction of the cost of the separates and have most of the Marantz goodness and all of the enjoyment.
 
Marantz

recently just sold a #140 power and a #3300 pre. Never know what you had untill it,s gone!! Still kicking myself!!!!
 
If I went the receiver route, I'd probably get a 2325 or 4400. From what I've read, it sounds like these beasts put out much more than 125 wpc. I'm not concerned so much with add'l headroom, however, as I am on the FM specs. This is where my dilemna comes into play with separates vs receivers.

The specs on the receivers seem to vary quite a bit...why is that? Why do some middle models outperform higher models in areas of the FM specs? Marantz seems to be inconsistent in this regard.

When I purchased my 2250 (non B) brand new in the day, I brought it back to Marantz (Superscope) in Chatsworth once to check out a noise issue when the unit was off. It was probably just the cooling down of the parts along with the aluminum base. Marantz never found anything wrong with the unit. When playing, the unit was perfectly clean. Anyway, when I got it back to my place and started listening to the FM radio....I was shocked!! I had much more power and the reception was much cleaner. It sounded like I imagined the 2325 would be! Marantz evidently tweaked something to make improvements.
 
From having a number of receivers, separates, high end tuners, and yes - even other brands, etc... I've found that in the real world of tuners, specs are only a general guide as to the performance you will notice.

I've had some models that had incredible specs, only to find it sounded like music coming from a tin can. And I've had tuners that were mid level that had a wonderful sound, but were not as sensitive at pulling in stations.

As I mentioned before much of what you can expect comes the conditions in YOUR area. Many of us actually use a separate tuner with our receivers. At least I do. I use a Sony HD $79 tuner. For me it comes down to a matter of listening! I live near three military bases, between Phily, Trenton and NYC. As well as my only channels being available are now HD. I had to go digital for my tuner.

charles
 
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The 4400 is 200WPC in stereo at clipping and 75WPC in quad.... But it does not have much in the way of damping....

jk



Loner said:
If I went the receiver route, I'd probably get a 2325 or 4400. From what I've read, it sounds like these beasts put out much more than 125 wpc. I'm not concerned so much with add'l headroom, however, as I am on the FM specs. This is where my dilemna comes into play with separates vs receivers.

The specs on the receivers seem to vary quite a bit...why is that? Why do some middle models outperform higher models in areas of the FM specs? Marantz seems to be inconsistent in this regard.

When I purchased my 2250 (non B) brand new in the day, I brought it back to Marantz (Superscope) in Chatsworth once to check out a noise issue when the unit was off. It was probably just the cooling down of the parts along with the aluminum base. Marantz never found anything wrong with the unit. When playing, the unit was perfectly clean. Anyway, when I got it back to my place and started listening to the FM radio....I was shocked!! I had much more power and the reception was much cleaner. It sounded like I imagined the 2325 would be! Marantz evidently tweaked something to make improvements.
Click to expand...
 
I was never a big fan of the 2325. Although it does seem to have a following. I've had two and just did not care for the sound quality. Also I beleive there were repair issues with this particular receiver. But do a search on that to make sure. Even though I've never had a 4400 - I would go with that over the 2325.

With the 250/250M you are going to need a preamp. Here is were you can choose between the 3300 and 3600. Having had both they are very different sounds, but both are great in their own ways. The 3300 is a tad leaner sounding with less attention on the bass. Where as the 3600 is a fuller more robust sound.

I've been following your posts. What exactly are you looking for. Soundwise???? What's your listening use, room, speakers, etc...

charles
 
I just remember my 2250 so vividly...wish I still had it. As I said in an earlier post, when I picked it up from Superscope - Chatsworth, the unit was much more robust in every way! The dynamics, stereo separation, the low distortion in both phono and FM were excellent. That's the sound I'm looking for...as well as the classic look. I much prefer the black face over silver...just my preference.:yes:

I'm just wondering if I can get that kind of quality in a receiver or am I going to have to go separates. My room is 13' x 26'...it's used for HT and music. I listen to CD's, SACD's, multi-channel etc....all kinds of music. My speakers are not vintage...not interested in getting any.:music:

If the receivers (2325, 4400) won't work, the perfect separates look would be 150/125, 3800/3650/3600 and 250M/510M I guess.:thmbsp:


airtime said:
I was never a big fan of the 2325. Although it does seem to have a following. I've had two and just did not care for the sound quality. Also I beleive there were repair issues with this particular receiver. But do a search on that to make sure. Even though I've never had a 4400 - I would go with that over the 2325.

With the 250/250M you are going to need a preamp. Here is were you can choose between the 3300 and 3600. Having had both they are very different sounds, but both are great in their own ways. The 3300 is a tad leaner sounding with less attention on the bass. Where as the 3600 is a fuller more robust sound.

I've been following your posts. What exactly are you looking for. Soundwise???? What's your listening use, room, speakers, etc...

charles
Click to expand...
 
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