Seven vs Eight Deluxe

[Charix]

The Seven and the Eight Deluxe are very similar. I believe I read here on AK that the Seven was the first Sansui receiver with direct coupled output. The Eight in production was not direct coupled until the Eight Deluxe came out. So when the Seven came out it had Sansui's most advanced amp design although not the most powerful, that was still the Eight.

It was stated the Eight Deluxe originated the amp design used in the 9090db but maybe it was really the Seven? This is also why the Seven and the Eight Deluxe sound so good. Because of high cost, the amp design was dropped in the next model line. (Was this the 771 and 881? )

Can someone who really knows this stuff correct and fill in the info about the Seven. I have little information about what is a great receiver.

Edit: I changed statements that were wrong to a gray color, see next post. I wanted to use a strikeout font but couldn't get that to work...

Thanks

 

[stereofun]

I'll give it a try. The Eight was the first amp of the single digits. They all have direct coupling - but the difference lies in the Eight being the only one that has the "older" quasi complementary amp design, whereas the remaining six, seven, and 8D have a full complementary output stage: pnp-pnp / npn-npn (driver to output) the Eight has npn-npn / pnp - npn, hence quasi. I have a/b the seven and Eight and they sound very very similar, with the Eight having a little more basement as expected. The 8D is in some ways a 9090DB where the Eight is a 9090. (full vs quasi outputs)

The Eight has the best build quality of the bunch - just by a tad though, with a sound that is probably near identical to that of the 8D. The cost cutting that plagued subsequent models had to do with inflation, causing the japanese manufactures to cheapen their product in order to keep prices the same in the american market.

 

[monoethylene]

I'll give it a try. The Eight was the first amp of the single digits. They all have direct coupling - but the difference lies in the Eight being the only one that has the "older" quasi complementary amp design, whereas the remaining six, seven, and 8D have a full complementary output stage: pnp-pnp / npn-npn (driver to output) the Eight has npn-npn / pnp - npn, hence quasi. I have a/b the seven and Eight and they sound very very similar, with the Eight having a little more basement as expected. The 8D is in some ways a 9090DB where the Eight is a 9090. (full vs quasi outputs)

The Eight has the best build quality of the bunch - just by a tad though, with a sound that is probably near identical to that of the 8D. The cost cutting that plagued subsequent models had to do with inflation, causing the japanese manufactures to cheapen their product in order to keep prices the same in the american market.

Thanks a lot for that eventhough I think that the 7000 was a bit earlier as the Eight. Build quality is comparable to the eight except some small cosmetic issues and tricks as pulling the FM Board completely away.

Okeee, I count the 7000 to the SDS..

 

[stereofun]

Yes you are right, the 7000 is older, looks almost identical to the eight on the outside but sports an older gen amp inside (cap coupled ?). It is almost as if the 7000 is a hybrid: single digit looks and controls powered by an x000 series amp.

 

[59volvo]

is there any SQ difference between the 7000 and eight/eight D?

 

[monoethylene]

Hm..At least I cannot hear any difference but will have to make an A/B hearing with the same speakers. Further I have to say that both units are fully recapped.

Philipp

 

[LBPete]

Stereofun is right on with his assessment of the 7000/8/7/8D but I want to clarify the references to the newer models. The Seven and Eight Deluxe share the push/pull PNP/NPN amp design. The Eight, 881 and 9090 had quasi complementary outputs but the actual amplifier design of the Eight had nothing in common with either the 881 or 9090. (The 881 and 9090 do share a lot of design elements including variations of the same driver board.)

The Seven and Eight Deluxe share a full complementary output with the 9090DB but the actual amplifiers are totally different.

Hope this helps.

- Pete

 

[ranch 22b]

'Some great info here! I have a Six that has become one of my favorite receivers once I paired it with Dynaco A-25's.

Pete, may I ask where the amp of the 7070 fits in?

 

[SoCal Sam]

At one time, I had three Eight's and a 7000. Wished I had looked at them closer. One Eight had a relay while the other two did not. IIRC, the relay equipped Eight was complementary while the non-relay equipped were not. I don't remember much about my 7000, it never worked right. Should have kept the relay Eight, it was a real gem.

 

[Charix]

The Seven and Eight Deluxe share a full complementary output with the 9090DB but the actual amplifiers are totally different.

Can you describe more what this means? Does this mean they have the same technology but are different in what specific boards were used and power output?

 

[Charix]

Can you describe more what this means? Does this mean they have the same technology but are different in what specific boards were used and power output?

Perhaps more to the point, what is the significance of the differences?

Thanks

 

[tiga]

Where do the 3300 and 5500 fall in the timeline? I thought the 3300/5500 came after the 7000 (looks very similar) and before the xx1 line. Does anyone know anything about their amp design?

 

[stereofun]

Thanks Pete for clearing up the differences. I would imagine then that the 8/8D despite different output config are more similar in the actual amp design ?

And to Charix - As stated I have A/B'ed the Six / Seven / Eight head on - they have a very similar sound that I would describe as Punchy and detailed, not particular warm or soft, yet very musical and live. Them all being 40 years old and in excellent shape I dont think one amp design holds huge benefits over the other as for longevity. Sometimes evolving amp designs didnt always benefit the sound, other factors were cost of production, and certainly low THD and high wattage as a competition parameter in the receiver wars.

All the solid state sansuis are push/pull - even my 1969, 777a. When we talk about a full complementary output it means that a pnp driver feeds into a pnp output transistor for one halv of the cycle, then in perfect symmetry a npn driver feeds a npn output for the other half (darlington pair). However before 72'ish reliable OUTPUT pnp transistors were not available, only pnp's for the much smaller drivers - hence in a quasi complementary design all the outputs are nps's leaving only pnp's at the driver level. Some arguments goes that the full complementary is a more robust design with less distortion, while some argue that having all same output types renders a smoother sound.

@ Socal Sam - I have the relay Eight - have changes all output / driver trannis. I can assure you the realy Eight is a quasi like its older non-relay siblings.

 

[Ilikevinyl]

Love my Sansui 8 Deluxe!

 

[Charix]

@stereofun and @LBPete - Thanks for the input. I think these single digit units are really great but to most are unknown and not appreciated. The discussion of how advanced they are should open some eyes. I knew the Seven had an advanced amp but I didn't know how.

It is interesting that the full complementary was a cost issue in later models. It would seem it was only the cost difference between a PNP and NPN output transistor.

@llikevinyl - I bet your 8D is great. My Seven has always been my favorite. I would love to get an 8D. Maybe opening eyes with this thread is a mistake in my efforts to pick up one.

 

[LBPete]

'Some great info here! I have a Six that has become one of my favorite receivers once I paired it with Dynaco A-25's.

Pete, may I ask where the amp of the 7070 fits in?

The 7070 uses the same basic amp as the 9090DB and 8080DB. They all share variations of the same driver board. The 7070 just puts less power through it.

- Pete

 

[LBPete]

Where do the 3300 and 5500 fall in the timeline? I thought the 3300/5500 came after the 7000 (looks very similar) and before the xx1 line. Does anyone know anything about their amp design?

Here's the time line compiled from the Sansui Database

Model Start Date End Date WPC
2000 Nov-67 Jul-69
2000A Dec-69 Sep-71
2000X Nov-70 Dec-73
3000 Feb-67 Mar-68
3000A Nov-67 Oct-68
3300 Jul-72 Only one serial number on file
3300S May-72 Only three serial numbers on file
3500 Nov-69 Feb-70 Only three serial numbers on file
4000 Jul-69 Jun-72
5000 Jul-68 Dec-69
5000A Jul-69 Sep-70
5000X Feb-71 Feb-72
7000 Mar-71 Dec-71
Eight Jul-71 Jun-72
Seven May-72 Jan-74
5500 Jul-72 Nov-73
Eight D Jun-73 Mar-74
771 Dec-73 Aug-76
881 Aug-74 Jul-76 60
9090 Aug-75 Jun-77 110
9090DB Oct-76 May-78 125
G-9000 Nov-77 Nov-78 160
G-9000DB Jun-78 Jan-79
G-33000 May-78 Nov-78 300
G-7500 Nov-78 Feb-79
G-7700 Mar-79 Aug-80 120
G-9700 Jun-79 Aug-80 200
9900Z Sep-80 Jun-82

Enjoy.

- Pete

 

[Charix]

@LBPete - I noticed the Seven wasn't in your list. I guess it would have been between the Eight and the Eight Deluxe. I bought mine May 1973.

 

[LBPete]

There are a lot of lower models that aren't on the list. I was tracking the TOTL models. If you want to know where any model fits, look it up in the database. I put the Seven in the list, Seven May-72 Jan-74

- Pete

 

[Ilikevinyl]

@llikevinyl - I bet your 8D is great. My Seven has always been my favorite. I would love to get an 8D. Maybe opening eyes with this thread is a mistake in my efforts to pick up one.

Hey Charix,

My 8D sounds amazing. I just move the volume a hair and it's sounding much louder. The bass is deep & low, midrange & high frequencies are silky smooth, very "Live" sounding.

Yep, when everyone discusses some specific piece of audio equipment that sounds amazing, everyone wants one.