Should I send these in to Bryston? Warranty / Specs problem

[heavymod]

Does a warranty worked over unit come back with a performance verification sheet or just a invoice at no charge?

That's a great question. Can anyone comment on what paperwork they received after having their Bryston amp repaired under warranty?

 

[FootFungus]

The 4B-NRB I had came with the performance sheets showing the THD per channel. So they did seem to tout that as important metric of health at some point.

Look at the Stereophile 3B-ST measurements:
https://www.stereophile.com/content/bryston-3b-st-power-amplifier-measurements

At 120w into 8 ohms they are down close to .0012% THD. At 2 ohms they are closer to .007%. Bryston doesn't mention in the specs what load the 120W is being driven into. So if its up to .007% distortion at 120w at 8 or 4 ohms, then your amps may be more out of spec than the numbers look like on the surface. Also, Stereophile measured the balanced performance lower than the unbalanced (edit: had those switched) performance. I'm assuming the spec-ed .007% takes that into account too.

 

[heavymod]

The 4B-NRB I had came with the performance sheets showing the THD per channel. So they did seem to tout that as important metric of health at some point.

Look at the Stereophile 3B-ST measurements:
https://www.stereophile.com/content/bryston-3b-st-power-amplifier-measurements

At 120w into 8 ohms they are down close to .0012% THD. At 2 ohms they are closer to .007%. Bryston doesn't mention in the specs what load the 120W is being driven into. So if its up to .007% distortion at 120w at 8 or 4 ohms, then your amps may be more out of spec than the numbers look like on the surface. Also, Stereophile measured the balanced performance lower than the unbalanced (edit: had those switched) performance. I'm assuming the spec-ed .007% takes that into account too.

That's a bit weird about the balanced vs unbalanced, isn't it?

 

[Pete B]

What distortion test set are you using, what is it capable of measuring, what is the residual level?

All of your points are logical, what the person at the company is saying is we fix them
when they are broken, but you are correct as it is written there it should meet spec.
Mention "unfair and deceptive business practices" and that sends a hint that you talked
to a lawyer they might change their tune.

 

[Blue Shadow]

Mention "unfair and deceptive business practices" and that sends a hint that you talked
to a lawyer they might change their tune.

I think that might just piss em off. Calling em out on distortion and expecting them to say send it in we'll make it new again for free isn't standard business practice even for bryston. They are not there with you verifying the set up for testing as they would do at their shop so they can't just cave in to anyone wanting to get a free check up and return shipping.

I think your thread title is a bit off from what you actually are looking for now that this one is into page 2. You are now looking for folks that have had gear returned to Bryston and how that went. What was involved with the decision, the work done and the condition on return whether with a performance verification sheet or not. Most have said they did a great job, threw a bunch of parts in it and the amp sounds great now. I don't remember if the amps were smoking, not passing signal, making odd noises or just tired before being sent in. That is the info you are looking for.

If this is anything like Bilstein with their lifetime warranty on some of the shocks and struts, if these had been mounted on a vehicle used for more than a couple miles they will NOT pass original condition performance standards and they would be reconditioned. The ones I sent in were 100,000 mile parts and they were tired, replaced, no charge but sending them in. Could be the same with those 20 year old caps suffering in that amp.

It is just money and you are trying to squeeze even more outta this opportunity instead of dealing with this as an audio hobby. Go good luck with your choice. spend the coin to send them in and hope for a free upgrade in the selling price of your amps or get stuck with a bill and not make as much when you sell em. I understand but you need more info to make an informed decision.

 

[Pete B]

If he sends them in and they meet spec on their calibrated equipment then he should
expect to pay for the test and shipping. I think that they just need some pressure and
they know that most customers do not bother to worry about such things.

 

[whoaru99]

If he sends them in and they meet spec on their calibrated equipment then he should
expect to pay for the test and shipping. I think that they just need some pressure and
they know that most customers do not bother to worry about such things.

There is no pressure needed. All the OP has to do to have Bryston check the amps is to send in the amps. Bryston isn't balking at that, other than suggesting most likely there isn't anything broken.

If he does send them to Bryston then the amps can be sold with a clean bill of health from Bryston. But, doing so would consume too much of the potential resale so he doesn't want to do that at his own risk that the amps check out OK.

 

[Pete B]

I agree that that is what Bryston _should_ do but it is not what I was understanding
based on what the OP wrote. What you write makes more sense.

 

[gr33nhorn]

If you read the warranty, it only covers Manufacturing defects. Degradation in spec would be hard to attribute to a clear manufacturing defect or malfunction, and would be more in the wear and tear category.
They have already given you in writing that your measured spec is within accepted tolerance limits.
If your buyer wants a level of performance that Bryston themselves do not offer - I think the buyer is being unreasonable here. Either they should cough up to buy a new unit - and even good luck getting any manufacturer to honor the spec - There are too many variables - like Mains power, Interference (they might be using a spherical cow as a load)

 

[Blue Shadow]

The consumption of the potential resale is contingent on the op having to pay to get the amps returned. Does't Bryston usually change some parts in gear they work on even if it went in while in working condition? That's the question. Will they need to work on it so the op can cash in instead of cash out on this.

If he is so worried about a few bucks he should evaluate the selling price as is vs. the selling price post Bryston visit and git-r-dun however that works out for him.

 

[heavymod]

There is no pressure needed. All the OP has to do to have Bryston check the amps is to send in the amps. Bryston isn't balking at that, other than suggesting most likely there isn't anything broken.

If he does send them to Bryston then the amps can be sold with a clean bill of health from Bryston. But, doing so would consume too much of the potential resale so he doesn't want to do that at his own risk that the amps check out OK.

That is a great summary, although I think it ignores my main point, which is that Bryston will consider an amp "OK" even if it doesn't meet the published specs. Based on my conversations, being 10db over the noise floor isn't enough to qualify.

... you are correct as it is written there it should meet spec. Mention "unfair and deceptive business practices" and that sends a hint that you talked
to a lawyer they might change their tune.

I did mention that it seemed like fraud - either they warranty to the specs provided, or if that isn't possible, it seems like advertising fraud to begin with. Before I posted here, I wrote this up not using their company name at all, but it would have been impossible to discuss the amp / warranty / etc. So I don't know if I've pissed them off at all. I mean, I'd like to think they'd see it as an unfortunate but necessary consequence of maintaining the reputation of their warranty. But who knows.

I think that might just piss em off. Calling em out on distortion and expecting them to say sent it in we'll make it new again for free isn't standard business practice even for bryston. They are not there with you verifying the set up for testing as they would do at their shop so they can't just cave in to anyone wanting to get a free check up and return shipping.

I'm not asking them to accept the amp site unseen. I'm asking them IF I send in the amps, AND they are out of spec, will they repair them under warranty. And they are saying they won't be held to the printed specs.

I think your thread title is a bit off from what you actually are looking for now that this one is into page 2. You are now looking for folks that have had gear returned to Bryston and how that went. What was involved with the decision, the work done and the condition on return whether with a performance verification sheet or not. Most have said they did a great job, threw a bunch of parts in it and the amp sounds great now. I don't remember if the amps were smoking, not passing signal, making odd noises or just tired before being sent in. That is the info you are looking for.

Someone else brought up whether or not they are returned with a spec sheet / tests, and I was wondering as well. I'll just ask Bryston.