Shure M7D

jgannon

jgannon

AK Subscriber
Subscriber
Hi all -

I noticed that there are different Shure M7D carts. Some of them just say "Shure M7D", while others are "Shure M7D -M", "Shure M7D-MF", and 'Shure M7D-DM".


Is there is any real difference between these different versions of the cart? I also appreciate that stylus can affect the sound as well, because there are different generic styli out there. Of course, you may be lucky to still have an original!!

THANKS



EDIT - Actually, I don't think there is a Shure M7D-DM. It is really just the M7D-M.
 
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I think those markings usually applied to whatever stylus the cart was supplied with originally. Supposedly (from what I've read in several sources online), the M3D had hand-wound coils, while the M7D was machine-wound. Electrically they should be essentially the same, though some swear by the M3D. Styli are completely interchangeable.
 
Like all Shure cartridges from any era, there is a basic cartridge body that accepts different styli.

The M7D was originally a low budget version of the M3D. The M3D had a stylus that tracked between 3 and 6 grams (N3D), the M7D tracked between 4 and 7 grams (N7D). The cartridge bodies look different, but the DC resistance and inductance are the same, this is according to Shure literature dated 1958.

As Sam Cogley points out, the styli are completely interchangeable between the 2 cartridge bodies.

In 1962, the M7 cartridge was elevated to the M7-N21D which tracked between 1.5 and 2.5 grams. Same cartridge body, new stylus.

To answer the OP's question, I would say no, there are no real differences between the various M7 cartridge types...I measured all of the cartridges pictured as well as an M3D with a multi-meter, they all measure the same.

picture.php
 
As an added bonus trivia answer, Shure licensed the stereo cartridge technology from ELAC, which makes the MxD family kissing cousins to the ELAC cartridges which bring even crazier money than the M3D. I had one of the ELACs for a while, and I thought the Shure actually sounded nicer.
 
Thanks Malden and Sam Cogley for your helpful replies. I already knew a little about the carts such as their tracking, but wasn't sure about those slightly different types of the M7D. I also just read the other thread on the Shure M7-DM by SchweinHaus that you guys commented on. I was going to ask if the lighter tracking N21-D would really be compatible with the M7D cart, but know I now that it would, although there might be problems using it on a Shure M3D in that that cart rides lower, which can cause it to rub up against the surface of a record.

BTW - nice pic of those carts, Malden!

I guess that everything here would apply to the carts that say "Dynetic" on them as well.
 
I've used the N21-D in both the M3D and M7D with no problems. I've got the M3D/N21-D combo riding in an ESL on a Garrard 401 at the moment and everything's just fine.
 
Well, that's good to know about the N21D with the M3D.


But malden - it didn't seem like you quite disputed the poster who had the M3D/N21D issues in the other thread. Perhaps you were concentrating on making your point about the original N3D and JICO N3 not being inferior to the N21D?


The comments in post #2 iand #4 n the thread below are what I'm talking about:


http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=557650

No biggie of course! It just seemed that you guys seemed to agree. But I'm thinking that given your statement above, you were concentrating on making another point in the other thread.
 
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Yes, I was focusing on the Jico N3. That poster made some comments that are somewhat misleading.

The stamped sheet metal cantilevers were meant for the early M7D and M8D cartridges. The Shure N3D cantilevers were tubular, although slightly larger in diameter than the N21D.

I have several Pfanstiehl N21D's that were made by Shure, I don't think they sound that great. I also have a couple of Shure N22D's, .5 mil tip and track between .75 and 1.5 grams, again, not impressed. As I stated earlier, you could do much better with a modern cartridge.

Where the M3D and M7D (and its variants) really shine are in heavy tonearms with a N3D (or Jico N3) stylus. The highs are rolled off some but the bass is amazing. It's great for acoustic jazz and small ensemble classical.
 
Here is a photo I just lifted off of f-bay, it shows a M7D cartridge with a N7D (stamped sheet metal) cantilever...

picture.php
 
malden said:
The stamped sheet metal cantilevers were meant for the early M7D and M8D cartridges. The Shure N3D cantilevers were tubular, although slightly larger in diameter than the N21D.

I have several Pfanstiehl N21D's that were made by Shure, I don't think they sound that great. I also have a couple of Shure N22D's, .5 mil tip and track between .75 and 1.5 grams, again, not impressed. As I stated earlier, you could do much better with a modern cartridge.

Where the M3D and M7D (and its variants) really shine are in heavy tonearms with a N3D (or Jico N3) stylus. The highs are rolled off some but the bass is amazing. It's great for acoustic jazz and small ensemble classical.
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So basically are you saying that the stamped sheet cantilevers for the M7D were solid, while the N3D cantilevers were hollow (tubular)?

The part B of this is, are you saying that basically you feel that the only styli worth getting for these carts are the original ones - or the JICO N3?
 
I found an M7-N21D shure in the trash of this old man's home his family was cleaning out, they said I could have it (along with an Empire 888-TE) and it had a bent stylus.

Somehow I got it straight enough to play. Sounds more than good.

The JICO N3 will work with my M7? Anyone have this combo, and can speak for its sound? I'm still uncomfortable with the re-bent original stylus, tho it is almost perfectly straight.
 
onwardjames said:
I found an M7-N21D shure in the trash of this old man's home his family was cleaning out, they said I could have it (along with an Empire 888-TE) and it had a bent stylus.

Somehow I got it straight enough to play. Sounds more than good.

The JICO N3 will work with my M7? Anyone have this combo, and can speak for its sound? I'm still uncomfortable with the re-bent original stylus, tho it is almost perfectly straight.
Click to expand...

My gut feeling from what Sam Cogley and malden have posted is that it would be, but hopefully we'll hear from them again.

Also - this is where it starts to get a little confusing. It seems like the M7-21D is a cart, yet the N21D is a stylus?
 
jgannon said:
My gut feeling from what Sam Cogley and malden have posted is that it would be, but hopefully we'll hear from them again.

Also - this is where it starts to get a little confusing. It seems like the M7-21D is a cart, yet the N21D is a stylus?
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It should work just fine.

Anything with an "M" prefix is a cartridge body. "N" prefixes were for styli. Starting (I think) with the M7D, Shure labeled cartridge bodies with a suffix denoting which stylus was originally supplied with that body. An M7-21D would be an M7D originally supplied with the N21D stylus.
 
Sam C. is correct, Mxx for body, Nxx for stylus.

In my opinion, the Shure M3D, M7D, M7DM, M7-N21D, etc. display their unique charm with a Shure N3D or Jico N3 stylus, mounted in a heavy tonearm and tracking at 4.5 grams...:thmbsp:
 
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malden said:
Sam C. is correct, Mxx for body, Nxx for stylus.

In my opinion, the Shure M3D, M7D, M7DM, M7-N21D, etc. display their unique charm with a Shure N3D or Jico N3 stylus, mounted in a heavy tonearm and tracking at 4.5 grams...:thmbsp:
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I totally got this - BUT the picture of the Shure M7D with the stamped sheet metal cantilever...is that something that were saying sounded good also? It sounded before like you were saying that the N3D was tubular and the stamped sheet metal cantilever was solid. Was the sheet metal cantilever a good performer also, albeit perhaps not in the same league in your opinion as the N3D or the N3? (Just curious!)
 
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The original stylus for the M7D body was similar to (if not the same as) the N3D. The M7-21D was released later.

The N21D had the tubular cantilever.
 
All Shure stereo styli (with the exception of the very early N7D and N8D) are tubular.

Stamped sheet metal means just that. It's a thin piece of sheet metal stamped and shaped. It's almost "V" shaped in cross section.

Nothing special about the N7D or N8D, they were budget styli of the time.

I have one but the tip is long gone. I wouldn't waste any time looking for one, it's literally a needle in a haystack...:thumbsdn:
 
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malden said:
All Shure stereo styli (with the exception of the very early N7D and N8D) are tubular.
Stamped sheet metal means just that. It's a thin piece of sheet metal stamped and shaped. It's almost "V" shaped in cross section. Nothing special about it, a budget stylus of the time. I have one but the tip is long gone. I wouldn't waste any time looking for one, it's literally a needle in a haystack...:thumbsdn:
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The N3D is also stamped.

NOS N3D and N21D styli are readily available if one knows where to look, but the JICO/EVG replacement on my M3D sounds very good.
 
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