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Shure M91, M75

Trekkie4

Trekkie4

Retired Member
So, as some of you here already know, I've been on a lookout for "genuine" M91 ED/GD cart (from the pic, below) for quite literally ages now, but unfortunately I keep finding nothing locally... TBH, I even considered importing one from the States, but by the time I pay for the actual cartridge, I would have to pay pretty much the same amount (or more) for postage and/or customs, so it's just not worth it.
Shure-M91ED.jpg


In fact, I've reached the point where I'm considering to grab one of those clip-mount M 75-6s carts & use it with N 91 stylus. So, I just talked to a guy on the phone, who was willing to sell a complete assembly for around 60USD, which is too expensive for my taste. But he /did/ tell me something very interesting, which is the reason why I'm asking for help...

Here's the thing - I always assumed that M75 & 91 both share the same internals, so it wouldn't make any difference from the electrical point of view, right?! And just when I thought that I worked out everything, I've been told that Shure made several different versions of M75 & M91, which may not be necessarily compatible with each other. I already know about Realistic & Dual versions, just like I'm familiar with M75 "Type 2" series, which had a plastic housing & snap-down plastic guard, so it's not compatible with N 91 styli (in fact, I own one of those myself, ED/T2 version), but I never expected them to be any different, other than having different bodies, shrouds around the actual metal cartridge.

So, now I'm really confused, to say at least ... would the N 91 stylus actually work inside M 75-6 clip-mounted body? Come to think of it, is M 75-6 the same thing as clip-mounted M-91 E, or is there more to it than just the visual difference? And if so, how to tell them apart?
 
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If I understand correctly the M75 stylus will fit in an M91 body; an M91 stylus will not fit in an M75 body. This probably meant that back in the day you couldn't upgrade your cart by simply buying the newer stylus. You would have to spring for the whole new cartridge. Makes total business sense.
If I'm wrong someone should be along shortly.
 
Trekkie4 said:
Come to think of it, is M 75-6 the same thing as clip-mounted M-91 E, or is there more to it than just the visual difference?

And if so, how to tell them apart?
Click to expand...

Need to examine the diamond tip closely and be knowledgeable enough to tell the differences.......:) :rolleyes:

Shure M 75-6 = Spherical (0.6 mils)

Shure M 91E = Biradial (0.2x 0.7 mils) bonded

Shure M 91ED = Biradial (0.2x 0.7 mils) nude mounted
 
ctjetta said:
If I understand correctly the M75 stylus will fit in an M91 body; an M91 stylus will not fit in an M75 body. This probably meant that back in the day you couldn't upgrade your cart by simply buying the newer stylus. You would have to spring for the whole new cartridge. Makes total business sense.
If I'm wrong someone should be along shortly.
Click to expand...
Interesting... Are you talking about the styli plastic housing, "grip" part not being able to fit the actual cartridge body, or the magnets not lining up properly?

Balifly said:
Need to examine the diamond tip closely and be knowledgeable enough to tell the differences.......:) :rolleyes:

Shure M 75-6 = Spherical (0.6 mils)

Shure M 91E = Biradial (0.2x 0.7 mils) bonded

Shure M 91ED = Biradial (0.2x 0.7 mils) nude mounted
Click to expand...
Right, got that. But you misunderstood my question, how to tell carts apart? Here, let's take M91 E & M75 6s for example. Both visually the same, both clip-mounted. Are they compatible between each other, is M75 going to accept N91 stylus & vice versa?

M91E (also compatible with 91ED styli)


M75-6s
 
The rubbery green Shure is may also be the M93. Between the M91, M75, M93, I remember reading a long time ago they are essentially the same cartridge. However, the only way to tell is to measure out the inductance.

As long as the plastic housing doesn't interfere with anything or is obstructed by the cartridge housing, yes, they should all be interchangeable.
 
I have both a M91E and a M75, both clip mounts. I've never tried swapping styli. I know where the M91 is, finding the M75 may be a task. If I can find it I'll let you know. What kind of table are you wanting to run this on.
 
mythless said:
The rubbery green Shure is may also be the M93. Between the M91, M75, M93, I remember reading a long time ago they are essentially the same cartridge. However, the only way to tell is to measure out the inductance.

As long as the plastic housing doesn't interfere with anything or is obstructed by the cartridge housing, yes, they should all be interchangeable.
Click to expand...
Right?! That was my assumption, as well. But it would seem that every other person has a different opinion regarding this matter, including the guy on the phone, mentioned in the 1st post. And TBH, I'd much rather be 100% sure about this, before investing into M75/N91 combo.

bigaltx24 said:
I have both a M91E and a M75, both clip mounts. I've never tried swapping styli. I know where the M91 is, finding the M75 may be a task. If I can find it I'll let you know. What kind of table are you wanting to run this on.
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Things are completely opposite over here. Plenty of M75 carts in all shapes & forms (most of them are Duals, but you can also find clip-mounted 75-6s models). On the other hand, M91 ED/GD is nowhere to be found. Either ED, GD, or even just the body alone, without the stylus. Because finding replacement styli is not an issue, they are available just about anywhere (Jico, EVG) But finding the old genuine cart is easier said than done, I've been searching for years!

Edit
Sorry, now that I got more time & am re-reading your message, I just realized that I misunderstood your post. But still, I've been told by several other members that M91 ED/GD is widely available in the States, for next to nothing (especially if it's just the body alone, without the stylus). Where on the other hand, here in EU you can't find a single M91 cart on sale... Not even a clip-mounted M91, they're all M75 & sometimes M95.
 
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Thanks guys! Will probably give it a try with M75-6s in that case, there's one on sale for $13, without the stylus :)
 
Oh yeah, totally forgot about M70... There had been several of those around, but mostly bundled with tables...

I doubt people would want to sell them separately, after all I remember begging some guy to sell me his M91 ED cart, the model with plastic shroud & white "S", from the 1st post which I'm actually trying to find but he wasn't interested. It was sold as-is, together with Lenco L-75 table for $166, which was well outside my price range unfortunately. Otherwise I'd buy the entire thing & then re-sell the table :)
 
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Yet another option is the Shure 2215. It's an M91E/M93E in an EZ Mount:

Shure-2215.jpg


Put an N91 stylus on it, it's M91. Put an N93 stylus on it, it's an M93. Put an N75 stylus on it... You get the idea. These carts all share the same electrical/magnetic design. The mechanical design of the plastic shrouds on later models was intended to limit which styli would fit which bodies. We know better than that. With no plastic shroud to get in the way, the EZ Mount cartridges accept the widest variety of styli
 
Trekkie4 said:
Just of curiosity, how much would you ask for M75?
Click to expand...

Question of value/price will get your thread moved to the Dollars and Sense sub-forum where it will become neglected and die a slow painful death. The easiest way to find out what these things are selling for would be to check recently sold items on eBay.

BTW, if you're looking for an M75 or M70, you may be able to get a better deal on the better looking (IMHO) R700E. It was an OEM verrion of the M75 that was made for Radio Shack and sold under their Realistic brand name:

Shure-R700-E-Ne95-ED.jpg


BTW, that's a NOS Ne95ED 0.2 x 0.7 mil ellipical (flip down stylus guard removed) - yet another stylus option that will fit the M75 (and of course the M91 and M93).
 
MCM_Fan said:
Yet another option is the Shure 2215. It's an M91E/M93E in an EZ Mount:

Shure-2215.jpg


Put an N91 stylus on it, it's M91. Put an N93 stylus on it, it's an M93. Put an N75 stylus on it... You get the idea. These carts all share the same electrical/magnetic design. The mechanical design of the plastic shrouds on later models was intended to limit which styli would fit which bodies. We know better than that. With no plastic shroud to get in the way, the EZ Mount cartridges accept the widest variety of styli
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Don't think I've ever seen 2215 on sale locally, but thanks! I always assumed this would be the case, they certainly appear to be identical. But I wanted to be certain, especially now that I've decided to go through with this! I figured the plastic grip wouldn't interfere without the shroud, but there was still an issue of magnets inside the stylus lining up (or not) with the coil inside the cart. I also remember reading someone's posts here on AK, where it was said that M91 had a different generator than M75. And therefore sounds different, when not paired with appropriate "M91" cart. Not necessarily better or worse, just "different", whatever that meant *shrug*

Thanks! :beerchug:

Edit
Previous post edited, thanks for the warning.
 
Back in the "day," when as a high schooler/ college student, I was exposed to the M75 while working at Radio Schack...our RS-series carts were supposed to be M75's. They sounded nice when compared to the other ceramics the cheapo equipment had, but I never realized how good something other than Shure sounded until I bought an ELAC/Miracord 620 from Tech HiFi...came with an ELAC 244-17 cart...OMG, the Shures were not even in the same league! Running a Sansui 3000 through Beovox 2600 speakers at the time and the difference was SOOO apparent...never looked back since.

I am sure, as I thought before my "awakening," that Shures are a good cart...but still run an ELAC 344 in my Rega and I cannot think of ever changing. Before doing handstands to find "that" stylus, consider there is a whole ocean of possibilities before you ;)
 
Bill Ashton said:
Back in the "day," when as a high schooler/ college student, I was exposed to the M75 while working at Radio Schack...our RS-series carts were supposed to be M75's. They sounded nice when compared to the other ceramics the cheapo equipment had, but I never realized how good something other than Shure sounded until I bought an ELAC/Miracord 620 from Tech HiFi...came with an ELAC 244-17 cart...OMG, the Shures were not even in the same league! Running a Sansui 3000 through Beovox 2600 speakers at the time and the difference was SOOO apparent...never looked back since.

I am sure, as I thought before my "awakening," that Shures are a good cart...but still run an ELAC 344 in my Rega and I cannot think of ever changing. Before doing handstands to find "that" stylus, consider there is a whole ocean of possibilities before you ;)
Click to expand...
There is a personal reason why I'm after M91, conical GD in particular with red stylus... It was the very 1st cart/stylus I've experienced, on our turntable. Even today, when I think of a turntable, I literally think of "Shure", M91 in particular.

Of course, I've had other carts since then ... Shure M94E, Shure M94 with aftermarket N 99E stylus, AT 95E (which I can't stand), AT 3600L (which I absolutely adore) and last but not least M 75B Type2, fitted with Jico N 75ED/Type2, which immediately became my favorite, as soon as I heard it for the 1st time. It was a random & totally unexpected surprise, I found the cart while searching for M91 about a year ago. Been trying out other carts & styli since then, and I also got to experience, try out Stanton 500E (1st gen), but in the end I keep going back to M75, it sounds too good to be true, for the money I spent... ;)

@mythless Sorry, your post got lost between all the other ones... I find this interesting indeed! This would probably help explain a thing or two. But if that's the case, then how come they all use the same coils?
 
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