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Shure pecking order

My original Shure V15 type II rocked the house back in 1968. It was the best cartridge available at that time. It saw many, many hours of use on the ol' Dual 1019. Since then I have owned the V15 type III, the type IV, and presently own the V15VxMR. The V15 series has never failed to produce the finest sound from a moving magnet cartridge. I have less than 40 hours on the V15VxMR, so I have a lot of life left. It is unfortunate that Shure pulled the plug on the V15 line. I'm handling my V15VxMR like it was gold. There won't be a replacement when it's gone.

My second favorite moving magnet cartridge is the Signet TK9eA, completely hand built, and sounds very good. It is right there with the V15 type IV. Unfortunately, it is no longer in production, nor are there any stylus available. Mine has about 250 hours on it, so I'm protecting it, too.

If it were my Shure V15 type III, I'd try the Jico stylus. What else can you do?
 
jdandy said:
My original Shure V15 type II rocked the house back in 1968. It was the best cartridge available at that time. It saw many, many hours of use on the ol' Dual 1019. Since then I have owned the V15 type III, the type IV, and presently own the V15VxMR. The V15 series has never failed to produce the finest sound from a moving magnet cartridge. I have less than 40 hours on the V15VxMR, so I have a lot of life left. It is unfortunate that Shure pulled the plug on the V15 line. I'm handling my V15VxMR like it was gold. There won't be a replacement when it's gone.

My second favorite moving magnet cartridge is the Signet TK9eA, completely hand built, and sounds very good. It is right there with the V15 type IV. Unfortunately, it is no longer in production, nor are there any stylus available. Mine has about 250 hours on it, so I'm protecting it, too.

If it were my Shure V15 type III, I'd try the Jico stylus. What else can you do?
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The few places that still have the replacement VN5XMR are selling for ridiculous priceses these days.
Mine still has a lot of life on it but I had an extra insert that the stylus was broken off so I sent that one to be retipped by soundsmith with the best retip they offer.
I expect it to be finished in about 6 or 7 more weeks.
I know it wont sound the same but would like to try it anyway.
 
hakaplan said:
No, your comparison is not valid. The VST III was not similar to the V15 III. They were two different animals. It was the same as the V15-RS, the version Shure made for Radio Shack. It had the larger shank as used in the "M" carts.
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I appreciate your input, though I don't necessarily accept your conclusions. Similar does not mean identical, and without being able to perform a comparative audition, I do tend just to trust what manufacturers have to say concerning their own products. With reference to the VST III, Shure states, "It was very similar to the V15III performance." From experience I can validate their claim that, "The M97xE is an upgrade. It is a great product for the price. We highly recommend it as a replacement for the VSTIII."

With respect to the V15-RS, Shure states, "The V15-RS was similar to the V15-III. The major difference was the packaging/model number." Apparently, at least the Shure representative who wrote that found the model designation and packaging to be of greater importance than any difference in materials used.
 
hifi_nut said:
The Ittok LVIII is a great arm. I owned one mounted on an LP-12 years ago and an Asak cartridge.

The Shure V15-III is a great cartridge. I owned one too for a few years mounted on an Audio-Technica AT-1100 arm on an Ariston RD-80 TT.

Having said that I wouldn´t think they make a good pairing. The Ittok really calls for lower compliance MC cartridges, whereas the Shure V15 only gives its best on very low effective mass arms.

I never owned or even heard a M97X, but I´m pretty sure its compliance is considerably lower than the V15´s, hence the reason it sounds so nice on the Ittok.
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I did try an Asaka; it sounded very good, but not worth the multi-hundreds of dollars for re-tipping that was needed after a year's use. I like the LP12/Ittok combination in large measure because it allows me to get great performance from modestly-priced cartridges. As Linn used to point out, their low-cost, spherically-tipped moving magnet cartridge mounted on an Ittok extracted more information from the record groove than their best moving coil on a lesser arm.

At just under 12 grams effective moving mass, the Ittok is at the upper range Shure recommends for their more compliant cartridges. The V15 III was rated at 30 x 10 (-6) cm/dyne of force, while the M97xE is at 25 x 10 (-6) cm/dyne (same as the V15 VxMR). With the M97xE, I do use the stabilizer brush for its great tracking of even badly warped records.
 
BrandXRC said:
Thanks for all the info and opinions. I have a chance to get a VN-15E stylus with low hours at a good price. Will this fit my cart? I would like to give the V-15 III cart a listen.
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The VN-15E was for the V15 II cartridge. From the following information from Shure, I would not think it a suitable stylus for your cartridge:

"One distinctive difference between each generation of the V15 is the shape and dimensions of the Pole Pieces and Stylus Brass Housing. This means that the styli are not interchangeable from one generation to the next. They do not provide a proper fit, or alignment, between the Magnet and Pole Pieces."

After-market styli are available. Jico S.A.S. styli are well-regarded, and the one from ewsaunders.com apparently works well and is only $40.00.
http://www.ewsaunders.com/shurereview.htm

Alternatively, a new M97xE can be had for about $60.00.
 
I damaged my V15VxMR stylus about 2 years ago but hung onto it waiting for a reasonable stylus replacement. Evidently, the M97xE stylus will fit although I assume performance will suffer somewhat. Installation will be on a Dual 1214

Has anyone tried this? Any comments?
 
I don't mean to hijack this thread in any way; hopefully my question will at least peacefully coexist because it's related to the Shure "pecking" order.

Based on AKer comments and discussion, I recently bought a Shure M97xE with one of two ideas in mind:

1. Mount it on a Pioneer PL-41 I got that came without a cartridge or
2. Replace the M95ED on my 1981 JVC L-A31 with the new Shure and put the M95ED on the Pioneer.

I'm original owner of the JVC and it's my main TT. I'd have to say that the M95ED hasn't had that much use despite its age. I all but retired this TT in the later 80s when CDs became the top music medium.

So which would be considered the better cart?
 
markallen said:
I don't mean to hijack this thread in any way; hopefully my question will at least peacefully coexist because it's related to the Shure "pecking" order.

Based on AKer comments and discussion, I recently bought a Shure M97xE with one of two ideas in mind:

1. Mount it on a Pioneer PL-41 I got that came without a cartridge or
2. Replace the M95ED on my 1981 JVC L-A31 with the new Shure and put the M95ED on the Pioneer.

I'm original owner of the JVC and it's my main TT. I'd have to say that the M95ED hasn't had that much use despite its age. I all but retired this TT in the later 80s when CDs became the top music medium.

So which would be considered the better cart?
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I know there are members here who really like the M97xE a lot, but there are others like myself who think that the older M95ED sounds better. The stylus is a higher quality nude elliptical, but of course, it lacks the brush, which is nice for damping resonance and assisting in tracking warps. The best solution is to try both and see which you prefer. They are from different time periods, but were at the same relative position in the Shure lineup.
 
physoft said:
I damaged my V15VxMR stylus about 2 years ago but hung onto it waiting for a reasonable stylus replacement. Evidently, the M97xE stylus will fit although I assume performance will suffer somewhat. Installation will be on a Dual 1214

Has anyone tried this? Any comments?
Click to expand...
You are correct. It fits, but it's not the same sound. Different internals.
 
jrtrent said:
I appreciate your input, though I don't necessarily accept your conclusions. Similar does not mean identical, and without being able to perform a comparative audition, I do tend just to trust what manufacturers have to say concerning their own products. With reference to the VST III, Shure states, "It was very similar to the V15III performance." From experience I can validate their claim that, "The M97xE is an upgrade. It is a great product for the price. We highly recommend it as a replacement for the VSTIII."

With respect to the V15-RS, Shure states, "The V15-RS was similar to the V15-III. The major difference was the packaging/model number." Apparently, at least the Shure representative who wrote that found the model designation and packaging to be of greater importance than any difference in materials used.
Click to expand...
Shure has made claims that are pure bologna. People have called and spoken to representatives who have contradicted themselves or given out information that contradicts published information. I have learned over the years to take what they say with a grain of salt.

There is a AK member, I think "lesw," who actually worked at Shure designing and making some of their cartridges. He might be able to clear this up.
 
The V15 II is considered the best Shure ever made. I think the LM version was integrated with a headshell. In any case, the Shure V15 III stylus you want is VN35E or HE. JICO also sells their version of a microridge stylus which is popular with many here, called SAS, but it is expensive. There are many threads about this here. The HE version is very good. LP Gear sells JICO styli a bit cheaper than JICO does-check that the description says that it was made in Japan.
 
Here is another vote.
I have an M97xe and a V15 III with a VN35MR stylus, I also had a V15 II with original stylus.
I compared my M97xe to my V15s on numerous tables.
In no case was my M97xe even remotely close in quality to either V15.

David
 
energyandair said:
I compared my M97xe to my V15s on numerous tables. In no case was my M97xe even remotely close in quality to either V15.
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Thanks for sharing your direct experience. Every once in a while I see a V15 III body for sale at a reasonable price. Coupling your comments with the positive review of the Ed Saunders VN35E replacement stylus, it sounds like a cartridge worth experiencing.

These are the questions I ask myself when evaluating any piece of audio equipment (and expose my Linn bias):

1. Do all the musicians seem to be playing together?
2. Can you hear all the instruments all the time?
3. Can you pick out the bassline or any other musical part and follow it without difficulty?
4. Are you responding to the music--for example, tapping in time?

I've found the M97xE to sort out complex rhythms and have musicians sound like they're in synch with each other better than I've experienced with other Shure cartridges. Adding in unflappable tracking, great handling of warps, and a non-irritating tonal balance (oh how I hate an etched high end!), the M97xE has been very easy to live with long-term. That said, the lowly Stanton 500.V3 is even better at maintaining rhythm and timing cues and is what I have mounted up at the moment.

What would you say are the strengths of the V15 models over the M97xE?
 
I have a Shure M75E, M70B, M91ED, M95ED, V15III, M97HE and an M97XE. With the exception of the M70B all of the other cartridges blow the M97XE out of the water. The M97XE is an excellent tracker but every time that I put it back on my turntable I wind up removing it after listening to a record or two. I don't know who at Shure decided that it was an upgrade for the V15 series but I suspect they are probably listening to MP3's instead of records.
 
jazzwolf said:
With the exception of the M70B all of the other cartridges blow the M97XE out of the water.
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Could you be more specific? Different people give greater weight to different performance characteristics. I found the M97xE to be better than other Shure models in my experience at revealing dynamic contrasts and preserving music's sense of rhythm and flow. It also tracks well, takes warps in stride with that brush, seems no better or worse than other Shures at soundstaging, and has, to my ears and in my system, a pleasingly neutral tonal balance. I'm not saying it's the best cartridge in the world (in terms of dynamics and timing, even cheap Stanton models are better yet), but it did what no previous Shure had done for me; it let me actually enjoy music.
 
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