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Shure V15 Cartridges In A Nutshell

I started this thread to address some of the conflicting information I've read in this forum regarding the V15 cartridges and in the process, learn something as well. For instance, it was assumed by some that the V15 type 2 "improved" had laminated cores like the V15 type 3. By taking a closer look, it was discovered that maybe this wasn't the case.

It has also been assumed by many that post regularly in the turntable forum that the inexpensive EVG styli offered on ebay were the exact same thing as the Jico counterparts offered on their website. Taking a closer look, I found this not to be the case.

I also started this thread because I think the V15 series are great cartridges that are readily available for a reasonable amount of money. I do not see the point in using a cheap stylus with questionable quality and origin when for relatively little more money you can get a stylus that is as good as the original.
 
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Thank you, Malden.
Would you please provide, if possible, a "pecking order"?
Or is the suffix number, a progresive indication of sound quality?
 
You spoke of 'fit' but not of sound. Cartridge 'voicing' will change dramatically if replacing an aluminum shank with a beryllium one or the other way around. I had a phone discussion on this with Shure top-engineer Bob Kita, years ago. Mr. Kita designed the V15. We need to throw him a three-cheers for such an accomplishment.
 
RDecartridge said:
Thank you, Malden.
Would you please provide, if possible, a "pecking order"?
Or is the suffix number, a progresive indication of sound quality?
Click to expand...

yes I plan on doing that, in the interim, the basic progression is:

E (elliptical)

HE (hyper-elliptical)

MR (micro-ridge)

Montycat provided a Shure brochure that seems comprehensive, I'll transcribe the pertinent information into the first post of this thread...
 
NoTransistors said:
You spoke of 'fit' but not of sound. Cartridge 'voicing' will change dramatically if replacing an aluminum shank with a beryllium one or the other way around. I had a phone discussion on this with Shure top-engineer Bob Kita, years ago. Mr. Kita designed the V15. We need to throw him a three-cheers for such an accomplishment.
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I own every version of the V15 series with the exception on the V15 Vx and have tried numerous combinations of cartridge bodies and styli but never listened to any oddball combination long enough to form an opinion.

I mention "fit" simply because some of the styli such as the VN2E for the type 1 is almost non-existent, but the N44 series which do fit, are still being manufactured.
 
This is probably a better place for the question, and information to be added once confirmed:

Cantilever material? What were the cantilevers made of on the V15, Type II, Type III, and Type IV? It is well known that the V15 V brought along with it the beryllium cantilever. Is it safe to assume then, that no previous V15 cartridge featured such a cantilever and were instead all aluminum? In addition, did this beryllium cantilever find its way along with the MR tip onto the VN35MR and VN45MR styli?
 
According to my Shure literature,

Type lll had a thin-wall aluminum tube with a solid beryllium reinforcing rod cantilever

Type lV had a telescoped (2 piece) cantilever

Type V had a thin-wall beryllium tube cantilever
 
So do you imagine that the upgrade MR styli for the Type III and Type IV used the same cantilever materials as the original versions? Is there any way to tell?
 
Thanks for the info on the Type III. Thought that it was simply an aluminum tube. Now I have even more respect for Robert Kita, the designer.
 
I bought my first type III in 1973 and I have used them since then. I'm currently using the V-15 III DU on a Dual 701 with a HE stylus and III DU with an elliptical stylus on a Dual 1229. Both styli are from Jico. On my Dual 1019 I'm using a V-15 II with a Jico elliptical stylus. I have the older SAS stylus for the III's and really enjoyed them at first but I like the fuller sound of the elliptical and HE. 44 years of using the Shure cartridges and no plans to stop now.
 
There were also a few modifications of the V15 Type V-MR – the Ultra VST-V, and Shure’s best-ever cartridge, the Ultra 500, which had a tip mass of 0.165mg, and the best trackability of any Shure cartridge. Both had a recommended tracking force slightly higher (1.2g, versus 1g) than the V15 Type V, and hence better trackability due to the higher tracking force. However, the Ultra 500 cost significantly more than the V15 Type V-MR – around 35% more in the USA, according to the 1987 Audio magazine Annual Equipment Directory. The styli were interchangeable between the V15 Type V, Ultra VST-V and Ultra 500.

There were also several models between the V15 Types IV and V, the ML140HE, and its upgraded ‘brother’, the Ultra 400. The ML140HE had a laminated core like the V15 type III, IV and V, but with fewer laminations, which I suppose saved money when manufacturing them, and a nude hyperelliptical stylus on a beryllium tube cantilever. The Ultra 400 was the same, but had a microridge stylus tip – the equivalent moving tip mass was 0.19mg (V15 Type IV 0.29mg, Type V 0.17mg, V15xMR 0.17mg), so it was better in trackability than the Type IV, but not as good as the Type V or V15VxMR.

NoTransistors said:
Thanks for the info on the Type III. Thought that it was simply an aluminum tube. Now I have even more respect for Robert Kita, the designer.
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Yes, that was confirmed some years ago by occasional AK member Les Watts, designer of the ML140HE, which he designed to Shure’s brief of a ‘half-price V15 (Type V)’, that the Type III had a beryllium ‘stub’ on the cantilever.The ML140HE was for a time second only to the V15 Type V in the Shure line.

RDecartridge said:
Would you please provide, if possible, a "pecking order"?
Click to expand...

Here’s my estimated list of Shure cartridge rankings, best first, rankings based on tip moving mass and trackability, magnetic core type and stylus shape:
  1. Ultra 500 (V15 Type V-MR modified for lower moving tip mass of 0.165mg)
  2. V15 Type V-MR, Ultra VST-V (as per Type V, MR tip)
  3. V15 Type V (HE tip, beryllium tube cantilever, tip mass 0.17mg)
  4. V15 Type V-G (as per Type V, conical tip)
  5. V15VxMR (similar trackability, beryllium tube cantilever and MR tip shape to V15 Type V-MR, but non-laminated core, so eddy currents in the core will mean a less-flat high frequency response, tip mass 0.17mg)
  6. Ultra 400 (ML140HE body with MR tip, laminated core, beryllium tube cantilever, tip mass 0.19mg)
  7. ML140HE (laminated core, beryllium tube cantilever, HE tip)
  8. VST-III, V15 Pro/S, Realistic V15-RS (same body as V15VxMR, HE tip, beryllium tube stylus)
  9. V15 Type IV-MR (the MR tip was a later upgrade for the Type IV stylus)
  10. V15 Type IV (laminated core, telescopic aluminium tube cantilever with beryllium stub, HE tip, tip mass 0.29mg)
  11. V15 Type IV-G (as per Type IV except with conical tip)
  12. Ultra 300 (same body as Ultra 400, ML140HE and ML120HE, telescopic aluminium tube cantilever, MR tip, tip mass 0.3mg)
  13. ML120HE (laminated core, telescopic aluminium tube cantilever, HE tip)
  14. V15 Type III-MR (as per Type III, but later upgraded with MR tip stylus)
  15. V15 Type III-HE (as per Type III, but later upgraded with HE tip stylus)
  16. V15 Type III (laminated core, aluminium tube cantilever with beryllium stub, elliptical tip, tip mass 0.33mg)
  17. V15 Type III-G (as per Type III, but with conical stylus)
All of the above cartridges, except for the Type III models, have Shure’s Dynamic Stabiliser brush, which damps tonearm/cartridge resonance, short circuits record static electricity to ground, and removes dust from ahead of the stylus.

RDecartridge said:
Would you please provide, if possible, a "pecking order"?
Or is the suffix number, a progresive indication of sound quality?
Click to expand...

Yes, effectively higher type numbers (in the V15 series) are better than lower numbers, because of improved cantilevers, lower moving mass (and hence better trackability), and (usually) better stylus shapes. But Shure usually had a conical stylus shape version of later model V15's, for those who preferred a conical stylus.

I've heard (and owned) some, but not all, of those listed.
 
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Great post ETI! I would argue that the Ultra 300 & ML120HE should be higher than the V15 IV-G at the very least, though.

Also, later versions of the V15 V with the HE stylus were sold as V15 V-B.

Also, visualizing it like this makes it easy to see that there’s only really a few carts that would serve as an upgrade over my ML140HE: the V15 V and derivatives, the V15 Vx, and of course the Ultra 400s stylus.
 
tw1st said:
Great post ETI!
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Thanks.:thumbsup:

tw1st said:
I would argue that the Ultra 300 & ML120HE should be higher than the V15 IV-G at the very least, though.
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Yes, you've got a valid argument there. Their styli are certainly much better shapes than the conical stylus of the V15 IV-G. However, the V15 Type IV, whatever the stylus shape, is a better tracker, according to Shure's trackability specs. So it depends on how you rank them - I put trackability as more important in my list.

Having owned cartridges where different stylus shapes can be used, I can't hear much difference between the different stylus shapes. For instance on my V15 Type V, I've used both the genuine HE and MR styli, but couldn't hear any difference (if any) between them. I know that differences in things such as distortion can easily be measured between the stylus types, but our ears aren't always as sensitive as measuring instruments!

tw1st said:
Also, later versions of the V15 V with the HE stylus were sold as V15 V-B.
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Yes, I know about the V-B. It was essentially a cheaper package of the V15 Type V, which had the same specs as the original Type V, but didn't include the special aligning jig which was packaged with the more expensive variants. So I didn't list it because the performance was identical.

tw1st said:
Also, visualizing it like this makes it easy to see that there’s only really a few carts that would serve as an upgrade over my ML140HE: the V15 V and derivatives, the V15 Vx, and of course the Ultra 400s stylus.
Click to expand...

Yes - the ML140HE was a great cartridge. It's getting hard to find any MM upgrade from it now, with AT discontinuing their boron cantilever AT-150, and beryllium styli being discontinued last decade. However, the V15 Type V and its variants is certainly better, assuming genuine styli (I still have some for mine). The Ultra 400s stylus is certainly the better MR shape, and was still being sold by most dealers early last decade, so there may still be some around.

I'm still not sure about the V15VxMR, as I've never seen any objective reviews of it with frequency response graphs, which can tell an awful lot about how good a cartridge sounds to most people, but its 'little brother' the VST-III, which had an HE tip in the same body, certainly had a very flat frequency response. However, the phrases Shure advertised it with, about it having a 'warmer' sound often is code for a rolled-off top end response.:dunno:
 
Malden, your post is invaluable. We need some sort of sticky thread detailing this kind of info for stylus - cartridge relationships!
 
I just looked at the trackability specs and you’re right, I could’ve sworn that the ML120HE was A bit higher.

It seems that the real advances in trackability case from the cantilever, and the tip mass was kept very similar between different profiles which is why the trackability would be the same for a VN4G, VN45HE and MR.
 
I think that the ML140HE is a wonderful cartridge that belongs further up the above list.. This is why I have been collecting and hoarding them.
 
Hobie1dog said:
Where do you place the Tracer 1 cartridge that came on the Revox TT's?
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In trackability, the Tracer 1’s somewhere between the V15 Type II and V15 II Improved at midrange and bass frequencies, but slightly lower than both at 10kHz. However, it could be upgraded with the N97HE or N97ED stylus to be better than the V15 Type II Improved at all frequencies, and certainly with the HE stylus would be superior. So it wouldn’t be quite as good as the V15 Type III, but with the N97HE stylus would be quite close.

On the Revox, it should also be an excellent tracker over warps, due to the very low arm mass, especially if the Dynamic Stabilizer brush was used. It doesn’t have a laminated core, which means that it won’t have quite as flat a frequency response as the V15 Type III. So it would come in below the V15 Type III in the list.
 
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