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Single, Bi-Wire, Bi-Amp ... Latest Opinions

oldflame

oldflame

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Like so much in audio, almost any circuit, output class, tube/SS, source, cable, and speaker design ... just about anything can be made to work well, even though manufacturers and audiophiles may disagree.

Some very expensive speakers have one set of inputs, while others have two - serving split crossovers. When bi-wiring, consideration must be given to the two cables so their characteristics don't create discontinuity in driver response. The same for using compatible amps when bi-amping.

Bi-amping generates some questions: is it really the best route or does that depend on each situation? This method invites using a smaller amp for the higher frequencies and more power for the woofers. Even using amps from the same manufacturer, different amps for treble and bass drivers might not mesh properly.

Bi-wiring a bi-amped system is another ball-o-wax to wrestle with. Different hi & lo frequency cables may hinder or compensate for using two different hi & lo amps. This seems like it could be endlessly complicated, involving a lot of testing and comparing.

Is there much agreement about going "bi" or keeping it straight and simple when there's a choice?
 
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Active bi-amping with a good crossover can work very well, but usually people cheap out on the crossover. Passive bi-amping is a lot more of a crap shoot, but can work well, or may not.
Bi-wiring, meh, some will claim nirvana, some will blast it as useless.
I have heard systems with active bi-amping with a good crossover (bryston) and the results were quite good. It give you easy gain matching ability to be able to use different amps (if that's your thing).
I've done passive bi-amping with a pair of Bryston 4BSST amps with Totem Mani2s, and the extra apparent headroom seemed to be an improvement, but in the end it didn't do enough to keep me engaged.
Currently I run a Krell 402e as a single, stereo amp and do bi-wire to Totem Winds, but honestly I only bi-wired them because I was too lazy to re-terminate both ends of the cables and just combined them at one end.
In the end, from my experience, I would say that a single, very good, capable amp will out perfrom a bi-amped system with lesser amps. If money was no object, sure I might try to find another Krell and bi-amp, but things sound really good to me and I just don't have the desire to change anything.
My other system is single amp, single wire as for years JM Labs (now Focal) didn't believe in bi-wire/amp at all, and only used one set of binding posts.
 
I tried bi-amping using an electronic crossover and two amps with almost 300 wpc total. It was a sonic mess. I went back to one amp and one set a speaker wires, at 50 wpc, and it sounded great. I do plan to try bi-wiring again but I'm done with bi-amping.
 
I was skeptical, because the idea frankly seemed like snake oil to me. I've experimented a bit though and I feel like there is a subtle improvement sing a bi-wire setup. Even if the difference is really subtle, I figure that it's worth it as decent quality wire is still pretty cheap and that and the cost of a few extra connectors makes it worth what it costs for even the smallest improvement. I also think that some speakers may benefit more than others for this treatment, so there's that...
 
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Doug G. said:
If you think bi-wiring is good, you should try pan-wiring.

Is that where so much current is flowing through the cables they're being pan-fried?
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I can understand where you'd have to be patient and dedicated to undertake bi-amping, for it to be successful. It's also been suggested that one better cable (if that exists) may be better than bi-wiring using two lesser quality runs.

For all their audio quality limitations, boomboxes don't need interconnects and speaker cables (usually). Just thought I'd toss that thought out there.
 
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Jimerson said:
My neighbor has an Mc402 pushing some Sonus Faber Olympica III's that never sounded worthy of that kinda coin. I bi-wired those and the improvement was not subtle.
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Like someone said above , some speakers sound better bi wired than others. Vandersteens were designed to be bi wired and I’m guessing other speakers were voiced bi wired as well.

Audiofreak71
 
Audiofreak71 said:
Until you heard Vandersteen’s non bi wired then bi wired.

Audiofreak71
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I do respect Richard Vandersteen. It's a contradiction. o_O

If your respected speaker designer specifies it, sure. I think most double binding posts are there simply so as not to lose sales, because speaker-nerds like us audiophiles expect them. I'd try it with two sets of wires before buying an expensive new bi-wire cable.

OTOH, I've spent fair money on cables just for FOMO, myself. :rolleyes:

Everybody, do what you want! :)
 
sqlsavior said:
I do respect Richard Vandersteen. It's a contradiction. o_O

If your respected speaker designer specifies it, sure. I think most double binding posts are there simply so as not to lose sales, because speaker-nerds like us audiophiles expect them. I'd try it with two sets of wires before buying an expensive new bi-wire cable.

OTOH, I've spent fair money on cables just for FOMO, myself. :rolleyes:

Everybody, do what you want! :)
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Yep I agree with you. It’s really speaker dependent imo.

Audiofreak71
 
For speakers designed to be tri or bi-amped by passing passive crossovers and using electronic crossovers always gives the best results. Other speakers where the passive crossovers remain in place I don't see the advantage to bi wiring if you use the appropriate wire in the first place. There are a few instances where having tube amps on top and SS on the bottom when bi-wiring providing you provide protection for the tube amp give greaat satisfaction. Depending on where the LF crossover is the mid tweeter HF section may require as much more power than the bass. I see that using a 250 HZ crossover when Tri and Bi amping. Speakers with properly designed and executed passive crossovers really don't need to be multi amplifieed unless you want a special coloring to the sound.. We all love distortions of one form of another. To dry to warm to forward to recessed to laid back to critical. All are distortions. I mean if you don't like Avery Fisher Hall then any recording of same will be wrong no matter which you choose. Just like some of us detest SS or tubes and others prefer FET or amps with no feed back. Its all about choices.
 
Jim Thiel's dedication to time and phase coherence led to meticulously designed first order crossovers and drivers that would integrate properly. Needless to say, he didn't provide any mechanism to easily bypass his crossovers.
 
My speakers are tri-amped. Each speaker has 3 drivers. The only crossover is 1 cap per driver. Each pair of drivers (woofers, mids, tweeters) has its own power amp, which are dual-mono with volume controls for each of the 6 drivers, to balance the levels.

I also use 2 self-powered subs, so I guess the system in quad-amped.

All the power amps are driven by 1 remote controlled passive preamp.

Before this current system, I thought bi-amping was a pointless hassle. My last effort used a Pioneer D-23 crossover splitting the frequencies between a Cary 2A3 power amp for the mids and highs, and two Quad 405.2's for the bass. I never got it to sound as good as using a single power amp — either the Cary or the Quads, each sounded better alone.

The current rig was designed for tri-amping — because I'm a total amateur who doesn't know how to design a passive xover. Maybe that's why it sounds better than my previous efforts.
 
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No crossover. And I stand corrected: there's no cap (or coil) on the woofers (8") — I let them roll off on their own, on both the low and high ends.
 
I'll be the contrarian. I'm biwiring my Infinity RS-IIb's with different types of cables for the woofers and mid/tweeters, and the results are noticeably better than single-wiring.
 
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