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Smaller sub sounds better?

63pontiacgp

63pontiacgp

"Tubes Smell Good"
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I've been using a Klipsch KSW-10 powered sub for many many years. Recently I found a very good deal on the larger KSW-12 and swapped them out. I just put the 10 back in place. Too me the 10 has tighter cleaner bass. Has anyone else experienced this?

Mike
 
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63pontiacgp said:
I've been using a Klipsch KSW-10 powered sub for many many years. Recently I found a very good deal on the larger KSW-12 and swapped them out. I just put the 10 back in place. Too me the 10 has tighter cleaner bass. Has anyone else experienced this?

Mike
Click to expand...

Possibly your setup might have something to do with this, is the 12" in the same location as the 10? If so maybe try experimenting with that, the low pass, and the gain.

Also, the smaller subs maximum output frequency is most likely higher than that of the larger giving the illusion of tighter bass when in actuality the larger is the more accurate and just digging deeper.
 
Sgt Shultz said:
Possibly your setup might have something to do with this, is the 12" in the same location as the 10? If so maybe try experimenting with that, the low pass, and the gain.

Also, the smaller subs maximum output frequency is most likely higher than that of the larger giving the illusion of tighter bass when in actuality the larger is the more accurate and just digging deeper.
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Yep, same general location and other settings as well. I'm thinking that in my smallish room the 10 performs better.

Mike
 
If you have room, try running both. Adjust volume accordingly. Might sound quite good.

If not, less might be better. I have scaled back on my subs, but they are still overkill to some extent. My room is pretty small too. Plus, there might be an inverse relationship between age and SPL.

At 20, if you need 100 db, it might drop about 6 db for every 10 years of aging.
 
It would be interesting to plot the response of both. I suspect the 12" may be in too small of an enclosure... which could make it boomy and lacking extension.

Regards,
Gordon.
 
63pontiacgp said:
I've been using a Klipsch KSW-10 powered sub for many many years. Recently I found a very good deal on the larger KSW-12 and swapped them out. I just put the 10 back in place. Too me the 10 has tighter cleaner bass. Has anyone else experienced this?

Mike
Click to expand...
They should sound identical with the exception of gain and crossover setting could be different. Also phase should set properly be set even though they are different size subs.
 
MIke, what kind of box lining/stuffing is inside of the 12" sub? I can't remember from the last time I had one apart. There may be an opportunity, to add some fiberglass lining/fill inside the cabinet, which may help with the tightness of the bass. Don't super-stuff it or put fiberglass near the end of the port inside the cabinet (the port needs to "breathe" into a clear area inside the box), but a judicious addition of fiberglass insulation may help.

Regards,
Gordon.
 
It would be good if one could find reviews of them both in which proper measurements were taken, as some subwoofers are boomy and terrible, and it may be that the Klipsch KSW-12 is one of those; I don't know about them specifically. But I do know that Klipsch subwoofers generally are not highly regarded (even by many lovers of Klipsch speakers), though some of them are better than others.

I would not jump to a general conclusion about the size of subwoofers from one example like this, particularly when the actual measured performance of them is unknown. Subwoofers of any size can suck.

Also, my experience is that a good big subwoofer is much better than a good small one. They also measure better. In my home theater, I have a pair of the old SVS CS-Ultra subwoofers (I use a different amplifier than at the link), and I don't plan on ever upgrading from them. They are the best subwoofers I have ever owned. Much better than the smaller ones I have owned.

Of course, there are better subwoofers that are possible to get, but they are very expensive and these are good enough for me. I don't want to spend thousands of dollars for a very small improvement in bass. I already have better subwoofers than most people ever get.
 
Hey, years ago I heard an older SVS 8” subwoofer in a large cabinet. It was about the size of a dorm room fridge. For music, so far, it’s the only subwoofer I could give the thumbs up for. I think it only went down to maybe 32hz, it was perfect. #%}{^ thing was mean, brutal and it wanted blood. It had mid bass slam like a freight train, lower 30hz bass as clear and tight as you’d ever want. But I wasn’t willing to pay the asking price of $600 and seller moved on. It was ugly too. Even today I can remember the feeling it left me with.

Biggles
 
drbiggles said:
Hey, years ago I heard an older SVS 8” subwoofer in a large cabinet. It was about the size of a dorm room fridge. For music, so far, it’s the only subwoofer I could give the thumbs up for. I think it only went down to maybe 32hz, it was perfect. #%}{^ thing was mean, brutal and it wanted blood. It had mid bass slam like a freight train, lower 30hz bass as clear and tight as you’d ever want. But I wasn’t willing to pay the asking price of $600 and seller moved on. It was ugly too. Even today I can remember the feeling it left me with.

Biggles
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Interesting. I was not aware of any SVS with an 8" woofer prior to the current 3000 Micro, which is a very small subwoofer. Are you sure it was not a model with a 10" woofer?
 
My guess is going to be that the smaller enclosure is more rigid, the amplifier is more suited to the driver, and that the woofer is somewhat less marginal than the 12. I had a 12 with a blown amplifier. I was surprised that there was no bracing in the enclosure, I don't recall much if any fill, and the woofer wasn't nearly what I expected. I have a good quality 500w sub amp that I hooked up to it and the end result was pretty marginal.

Now, to put this into perspective, the Klipsch subas need to be high output in order to keep up with high sensitivity mains. This means compromises have to be made, especially to hit price point. High sensitivity motor structures aren't the best for deep bass. Not that most chain store subs tend to make a lot of deep bass anyway, Klipsch has no option. They need to be tuned high to get the needed output.

My experiment? I was going to play with tuning, but the woofer itself wasn't compatible with my expectations and the enclosure would need bracing. Best to replace the woofer and the enclosure, then address tuning. I set it outside with a "free" sign on it. The MDF filler panel to replace the regular amplifier did turn out really nice though.
 
Pyrrho said:
Interesting. I was not aware of any SVS with an 8" woofer prior to the current 3000 Micro, which is a very small subwoofer. Are you sure it was not a model with a 10" woofer?
Click to expand...


Guaranteed, 8”. It was old, might even have been considered vintage. And the size of the thing should have house a 12” or even a 15” driver.

The 8 was mounted on the side. It did NOT look like it should be in anyone’s living room. No wife would approve of it. And, no it was not DIY or White van.

Biggles
 
I run a pair of 12" because if you want a true subwoofer you must move as much air as possible.
Actually, my DIY big rig runs a pair of 12" on each side.

Help me decide on a powered subwoofer

The two I'm looking at are the Outlaw M8 (on sale) and the Fluance DB10. Mainly for music use. I'm leaning towards the M8. https://outlawaudio.com/shop/speakers-subwoofers/35-m8.html https://www.fluance.com/fluance-db10-10-inch-low-frequency-powered-subwoofer
www.audiokarma.org

Most low cost subs (10" and below) fail in the lowest octaves:

Help me decide on a powered subwoofer

The two I'm looking at are the Outlaw M8 (on sale) and the Fluance DB10. Mainly for music use. I'm leaning towards the M8. https://outlawaudio.com/shop/speakers-subwoofers/35-m8.html https://www.fluance.com/fluance-db10-10-inch-low-frequency-powered-subwoofer
www.audiokarma.org

Gordon makes a good point perhaps the 12" version is not optimized as well as the 10".
Try to find measurements on them or move on to a better 12" or pair of 12".
 
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What are your mains?

And do you have bass management or EQ of any kind?
 
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There's no rule that says a larger woofer will sound better. There are a lot of variables involved, and any one of them could be the reason one sounds better to you than another.
 
Pyrrho said:
Interesting. I was not aware of any SVS with an 8" woofer prior to the current 3000 Micro, which is a very small subwoofer. Are you sure it was not a model with a 10" woofer?
Click to expand...

Hey,
I apologize. It turns out it was a 10”. I texted The Candy Man and he says it was an SVS PB-10-ISD. I remember there being a plug in the port. In any case, I wanted to come back and apologize. Happy New Year!

Biggles
 
drbiggles said:
Hey,
I apologize. It turns out it was a 10”. I texted The Candy Man and he says it was an SVS PB-10-ISD. I remember there being a plug in the port. In any case, I wanted to come back and apologize. Happy New Year!

Biggles
Click to expand...


First, thank you for the correction.

You might want to listen to some higher model SVS subwoofers. They have made some really amazing subwoofers, which is why they are so often recommended online. I have not heard any of the current models, but all of the ones I have heard have been great for their price point. The ones I have make me not want to upgrade ever. That is a really good compliment to them.
 
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