Solid copper vs stranded copper speaker wire?
- Thread starter Lossless
- Start date
c.coyle
Fighting the Dunning-Kruger effect.
Exactly lol.
c.coyle
Fighting the Dunning-Kruger effect.
I may steal that line.
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JP
7480 74111110101115
I’ve no need for you to believe me. Actual engineering papers are plentiful, easily found, and most abstracts are an easy read. If you want to have an honest, actual discussion about the topic I’d be more than happy to participate.
R Swerdlow
Active Member
restorer-john and JP are right. OFC copper and electrolytic tough-pitch copper (Cu-ETP) both conduct electricity the same and oxidize at the same rate. Both are similar in price.
OFC was developed in the early 20th century for various industrial uses. Contrary to Mogami or marketing lit from others, OFC was not developed for any audio purpose.
Read this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxygen-free_copper#Industrial_applications
The problem you described above with "cheap lampcord" is due to poorly made, probably made in China, vinyl insulation. If, during manufacture of polyvinyl chloride, they don't remove all the unreacted vinyl chloride, or block it's reactivity by adding other chemicals, it will react with the copper all along the length of the wire over time. This happens with both OFC or Cu-ETP.
Output Relay
New Member
I'm sure there are folks out there that know a great deal more than I do in this field, but I can see where solid wire would do the job, in most cases. Solid wire can carry and supply the voltage induced into it with little loss. But it can't carry the amperage over a long distance as effectively as strand. So the signal will get there with solid wire, but not as it should if the amperage drops off, as it will with solid wire. With strand wire the voltage, the signal, will get there with the proper power it was intended because strand carries the amperage and voltage with much less loss than solid. If you're going to pay big bucks for a system I would think that over time this loss would adversely effect the components in a crossover by not supplying the proper signal as intended. Sound wise, I'm not sure there would be a discernible difference. But I would think those parts that make up the cross over would feel it.
Never claimed what it was designed for, or do you believe the microwave oven came about because someone wanted a faster way to cook food lol.
Most things designed by man for one purpose are eventually repurposed for other uses.
And the "its all marketing hype" is by definition the last straw grasped by the straw man lol.
Most things designed by man for one purpose are eventually repurposed for other uses.
And the "its all marketing hype" is by definition the last straw grasped by the straw man lol.
First, I've already read the article, no mention of corrosion resistance, and for the cheap insulation, I guess it outgassed on the stripped portion as well lol. Keep grasping at those straws, you just might get a winner some day.
R Swerdlow
Active Member
But you quoted those who do imply that.
Are you a shill for high-priced speaker cable?
You're free to believe whatever you like. But when you make unsupported claims online you will encounter others who challenge you. Other readers simply want to know what is correct without bs or snarky attitude.
I think you may have that backwards.
Well if they thought it important enough to house nuclear waste it's good enough for me lol.
2.2 Material propertiesThe choice of the material composition in the copper canister is determined byrequirements on corrosion resistance, creep properties and the manufacturingaspects of these canisters.The primary strategy for material selection has been corrosion resistance, becausethe main function of the nuclear waste canister is to keep the radioactive wasteconfined for a sufficiently long time in order to avoid the risk on the biosphere 111.The design lifetime of the canister is 100 000 years. This strategy has beenconcluded to select a copper quality which is as pure as possible. If the conditionsin the vicinity of the repository located at Posiva's investigation sites remainroughly similar to what they are today at the depth of 500 m in the bedrock, thecopper canister will be preserved intact for several million years I IS/.
2.2 Material propertiesThe choice of the material composition in the copper canister is determined byrequirements on corrosion resistance, creep properties and the manufacturingaspects of these canisters.The primary strategy for material selection has been corrosion resistance, becausethe main function of the nuclear waste canister is to keep the radioactive wasteconfined for a sufficiently long time in order to avoid the risk on the biosphere 111.The design lifetime of the canister is 100 000 years. This strategy has beenconcluded to select a copper quality which is as pure as possible. If the conditionsin the vicinity of the repository located at Posiva's investigation sites remainroughly similar to what they are today at the depth of 500 m in the bedrock, thecopper canister will be preserved intact for several million years I IS/.
Exactly, and why I'm giving them the facts and substantiating them, unlike others here declaring "it's all hype to sell you expensive wire".
As for my being a shill for expensive speaker wire? "Both are similarin price" your words, are you now contradicting yourself lol?
Oxygen free speaker wire is not expensive, and Mogami Cable never stated what OFC was created for, that's your tag.
Read my post directly above this, are they trying to sell you speaker wire lol? Go ahead, claim it's all marketing hype, maybe they want to sell you a canister to store your nuclear waste in.
Hopefully for all our sakes the engineers that design these canisters know what they are doing.
I find it really hilarious all this hubbub over my statement that OFC is more resistant to corrosion. Now if that's hype to sell expensive wire I've never heard that used as a reason to pay more for it in any companies sales literature lol.
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bimasta
Addicted Member
I mentioned XLO wire earlier, which I'm using. I got it over 20 years ago, so it's out of date (the electrons have not been improved in the CERN large-hadron collider) but sounds good to me. In a way, it's a hybrid of solid-core and stranded — about 15 strands, but quite thick compared to most stranded wire, whose individual strands are very thin. One could say it's multi-strands of solid-core.
It also looks like half the strands are copper, and half of them silver... though maybe only silver-plated, I can't tell.
It also looks like half the strands are copper, and half of them silver... though maybe only silver-plated, I can't tell.
WaynerN
Addicted Member
Wire size and type have to do with the task at hand. The National Electrical code would probably frown on a solid wire used in a portable wire configuration (like speaker wire, extension cords, etc.). Solid wire is made to handle current when its the size of building wire, and that wire is not ever meant to be moved. It is for permanent installs, just like the solid wire in the amps and preamps, it's a permanent install.
I personally believe that tiny wires (like interconnects) that handle very small voltages (<2v), can be beneficial to a micro signal, because multi-stranded cables, even in the micro size, have impurities and these impurities may blur the image. That is the single reason that all of my interconnects have a single strand center conductor. This single strand of wire is very flexible, does not handle any current to speak of and works for the purpose at hand, to deliver a pure low voltage signal to be further processed.
Speaker wire is another story. Its much higher voltage and current then interconnects and it needs to be flexible to allow for movement of the portable, electrical device...known as the speaker. The effects of multiple strands in a speaker cable have less of an impact on blurring the overall signal, because of the higher voltage and current.
I personally believe that tiny wires (like interconnects) that handle very small voltages (<2v), can be beneficial to a micro signal, because multi-stranded cables, even in the micro size, have impurities and these impurities may blur the image. That is the single reason that all of my interconnects have a single strand center conductor. This single strand of wire is very flexible, does not handle any current to speak of and works for the purpose at hand, to deliver a pure low voltage signal to be further processed.
Speaker wire is another story. Its much higher voltage and current then interconnects and it needs to be flexible to allow for movement of the portable, electrical device...known as the speaker. The effects of multiple strands in a speaker cable have less of an impact on blurring the overall signal, because of the higher voltage and current.
Mister Pig
Pigamus Maximus
There is an interesting discussion of skin effects by Hirabayashi-san of Mogami cables that occurred back in the 80's. It references a Japanese technical paper by Mr. Sabro Egawa done back in 1975 that I have been unable to find. The basic idea is that magnetic effects of cabling are real, that the geometry matters in terms of how the magnetic field is stable and effects signal transfer.
This is from a very reputable designer in the field that does a lot of work in the pro world. Wireworld looks to build upon these thoughts and create a stable magnetic field within their speaker cable. There are other aspects that are looked at, such as interaction between wire and dielectric . The point being that there is more to building a quality cable than LCR, and gague and strand count are variables, but not the only variables that effect the final output. I attached a couple pages of the text I have that reference it. Unable to upload it into this post, just click on the file attached below, it should pull it up.
Interestingly in two pages Hirabayashi-san touches on many of the topics contained in an AK wire thread. Now you have to decide if this excerpt, which is from a Mogami catalog, is a sales pitch, and he is a shyster. Or perhaps he is relating honest information from the perspective of a person who designs cabling. Your call. I won't argue it with you, I am just putting this out there for your consideration.
This is from a very reputable designer in the field that does a lot of work in the pro world. Wireworld looks to build upon these thoughts and create a stable magnetic field within their speaker cable. There are other aspects that are looked at, such as interaction between wire and dielectric . The point being that there is more to building a quality cable than LCR, and gague and strand count are variables, but not the only variables that effect the final output. I attached a couple pages of the text I have that reference it. Unable to upload it into this post, just click on the file attached below, it should pull it up.
Interestingly in two pages Hirabayashi-san touches on many of the topics contained in an AK wire thread. Now you have to decide if this excerpt, which is from a Mogami catalog, is a sales pitch, and he is a shyster. Or perhaps he is relating honest information from the perspective of a person who designs cabling. Your call. I won't argue it with you, I am just putting this out there for your consideration.
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snap, snap, snap . . .