Solid state amps that sound tube like

[cdfac]

OP, take a look at Sansui AU series gear. Lot's of it around, no unobtanium parts and very well built.

i was under the impression that some of the high-speed output transistors were pretty tough to replace. don't remember which AU or AU's in particular i'm thinking of, maybe the AU-919?

 

[Retro Stereo]

I found when I was putting my system together, a good tube preamp with a SS amp was my favorite combo. I finally came down to a VTL 2.5 pre and McCormack DNA 0.5. Really sweet and live sounding.

After messing with a lot of different, and hearing a lot of different tube/SS systems over the years I agree with this 100%

My favorite system to date is a Nelson Pass designed Forte' Model 4 Pure Class A SS Amp (50 wpc) with a LAMM LL2 Deluxe Tube Preamp. Pure freaking magic to my ears. The Tube Preamp is the key and it wasn't a cheap one, but with the way it is built, I'll have it till I'm no longer around.




Retro

 

[hatrack71]

I've heard a lot of solid state amps and a lot of tube amps. Matter of fact is that I own a lot of each. Nothing sounds like tubes- good or bad. Each has their weakness. As for SS amps that approach the delicate, accurate, open sound of tubes the only ones I've heard were a pair of 23 watt class A Mark Levinson monos and the really big Krell mono blocks. The price is way out of my league. If you like tubes, BUY EM. That is the easiest solution. The amount of money spent on trying to find that tubey SS sound could go toward putting together a really reliable tube unit.

 

[grundigger]

The tube sound is sui generis. A tube preamp paired with a solid state amp might be ideal for many. I agree with both propositions wholeheartedly.

I feel compelled to point out that my little semi-DIY and lightly-modified Sure Tripath bare-board amp sent my ST-70 packing. The ST-70 had Triode Electronics upgrades, Siemens "quad dimple" output tubes, various decent driver tubes, and was rewired in triode mode (I also used it in UL mode for a few weeks). I'll be pairing the Tripath with a BH Quickie preamp very soon, for what might be the cheapest implementation of tube/ss amplification you can get, new. Not usable immediately out of the box, but it's worth the extra effort to me. In all fairness, the Triode Electronics upgrade is probably not the very best, and while the ST-70 had the great stock output transformers, it also had the wimpy stock power transformer; still, a $45 digital amp board (with a $50 power supply and probably another $50 in upgraded parts) from China bested it, judged by my own perfect ears.

As far as solid state gear sounding like tube gear, nah, I don't think so. I was just thinking about this while listening to a QUAD 33 I got recently. I really like the funky little preamp, and at first I was somewhat in agreement with what I had read on the internet: some think that the early implementation of silicon in the 33, which followed the tube-based QUAD 22, had a circuit design that was "voiced" in a tube-like way. I think it's more likely that the 33 has few sins of commission, thus not offending in its musical presentation. And while I really enjoy listening to it, the QUAD never fools me that its sonics are "live," which an Audiomat Arpege integrated was capable of doing (not mine, unfortunately). A great tube amp has that something extra. I don't know, but I suspect the same is possible with a tube pre paired with a solid state amp. I could be wrong.

 

[cdfac]

i haven't heard a true tube amp yet, but i did have hybrid preamp that i enjoyed, and of all the S.S. amps i've had the Classe CA-400 is definitely the most tubelike.

 

[midwifecrisis]

tube/ss amp question twist...

..."I found when I was putting my system together, a good tube preamp with a SS amp was my favorite combo."...

Hi everyone... forgive me for throwing a curve into this thread, I found it while researching my own tube/ss question, which is sort of the reverse problem. I was going to post a new thread about this, but wasn't sure where to start it (hope this doesn't constitute 'hijacking'). Maybe someone can offer advice on this:

My main setup is a vintage Tandberg 2080 receiver pushing Infinity RSb speaks and usually fed by a Thorens TD160 tt with Denon 160 cart. I moved a few months ago, and my new listening space is a bit more open and allows me to push volumes higher than I had been able to. I know I still need to tweak the space and add dampening/diffusion here and there, but I'm starting to feel the Tandberg being bright in this setting and at higher volumes. I'm thinking of two main changes, the first to upgrade the speakers (Vandersteens are high on the list), but putting tubes somewhere into the system was another thought about "warming up" the sound, and also to add a bit more definition and musical delicacy (as many have noted).

I have an earlier model Tandberg receiver, the 1040P, which certainly has a warmer voicing than the 2080. So I have an idea about what the OP is asking relative to a tubey-sounding ss amp/receiver. But the 1040P is ultimately unsatisfying to listen to, after being used to the additional power and clarity of the 2080. Another issue is that the Tandberg units have terrific tuners, and I do listen to FM radio quite a lot, when I'm not spinning vinyl.

So, long story short, I was thinking about doing exactly the opposite of what was suggested above: use the Tandberg receiver as a pre-amp/tuner, but then experiment with some tube amps (either a vintage stereo unit or mono pair) to power the speakers. I know I'm working in reverse logic considering the Tandberg puts out 80 wpc and tube amps typically put out much less power, but.... will this work?

Maybe I should add the caveat that I'm not looking to dump the whole system, or enter the slippery slope (and expense) of all-tube gear, it is just a tweak consideration. I've been VERY careful to resist my temptation to acquire a huge stockpile of gear, and don't really need to have two or three separate systems (but then...)....

Thanks for your expert opinions (and please tell me if you think I should repost this somewhere else too...).

 

[Negotiableterms]

Tubes produce even-ordered harmonic distortion, often in easily noticeable amounts, like 1%.
Bipolar transistors produce odd-ordered harmonic distortion, but usually in smaller amounts, like 0.1%.
FETs, V-FETs, HexFETS, and MOSFETs all produce even-ordered harmonic distortion, but usually in smaller amounts, so they don't sound quite as tubey as tubes, but are objectively more accurate.
Output transformers seem to make ss amps sound more tubelike, even though they don't change the distortion from odd to even harmonics.

So... if you want tubelike sound in an ss amp, look for an amp that uses one of the FET varieties. Some of the smaller Hafler MOSFET units come to mind and of course the Sony VFETs (rare and not cheap). Beyond that, ss McIntosh amps that use autoformers will get you part-way there.

Some ss amps are "voiced" to sound tube-like, but, as the Carver demonstration showed, that voicing is inherently unstable, meaning that if you change speakers, it might be gone, or still there, or different. Pot luck.

Or... you could use any good ss amp and a tube preamp, or... a ss preamp and amp and a tube buffer. Our sponsor Grant Fidelity makes two of those, I think: Tube Processors. Musical Fidelity used to make a reeaally good one, but it's not at all cheap, then or now:X-10v3

 

[whoaru99]

So... if you want tubelike sound in an ss amp, look for an amp that uses one of the FET varieties. Some of the smaller Hafler MOSFET units come to mind and of course the Sony VFETs (rare and not cheap). Beyond that, ss McIntosh amps that use autoformers will get you part-way there.

Here's another recipe....take that FET-variety SS amp and add a Speltz Zero autoformer.

 

[Negotiableterms]

Here's a link to the Speltz Zero Autoformer.

Thanks for that idea, whoaru99. I'd heard of these, but never looked into them.

 

[midwifecrisis]

Thanks!

Tubes produce even-ordered harmonic distortion, often in easily noticeable amounts, like 1%.
Bipolar transistors produce odd-ordered harmonic distortion, but usually in smaller amounts, like 0.1%.
FETs, V-FETs, HexFETS, and MOSFETs all produce even-ordered harmonic distortion, but usually in smaller amounts, so they don't sound quite as tubey as tubes, but are objectively more accurate.
Output transformers seem to make ss amps sound more tubelike, even though they don't change the distortion from odd to even harmonics.

So... if you want tubelike sound in an ss amp, look for an amp that uses one of the FET varieties. Some of the smaller Hafler MOSFET units come to mind and of course the Sony VFETs (rare and not cheap). Beyond that, ss McIntosh amps that use autoformers will get you part-way there.

Some ss amps are "voiced" to sound tube-like, but, as the Carver demonstration showed, that voicing is inherently unstable, meaning that if you change speakers, it might be gone, or still there, or different. Pot luck.

Or... you could use any good ss amp and a tube preamp, or... a ss preamp and amp and a tube buffer. Our sponsor Grant Fidelity makes two of those, I think: Tube Processors. Musical Fidelity used to make a reeaally good one, but it's not at all cheap, then or now:X-10v3

Great info & advice... my Tandberg is a mosfet amp and thus has very low distortion... and in this particular new listening space, the sound is generally too strident and bright, even with the analog source (forget listening to cd's!). The Grant Fidelity tube buffer is a great suggestion, and it's only $200... this seems like a good option to play with throwing a variable into the mix (I'm thinking swapping speakers will also offer some different vocabulary). If it doesn't do the job through the ss pre/amp loop, it could always serve to modify the CD input. Worth a try, many thanks.

 

[EchoWars]

Tubes produce even-ordered harmonic distortion, often in easily noticeable amounts, like 1%.
Bipolar transistors produce odd-ordered harmonic distortion, but usually in smaller amounts, like 0.1%.
FETs, V-FETs, HexFETS, and MOSFETs all produce even-ordered harmonic distortion, but usually in smaller amounts, so they don't sound quite as tubey as tubes, but are objectively more accurate.
Output transformers seem to make ss amps sound more tubelike, even though they don't change the distortion from odd to even harmonics.

So... if you want tubelike sound in an ss amp, look for an amp that uses one of the FET varieties. Some of the smaller Hafler MOSFET units come to mind and of course the Sony VFETs (rare and not cheap). Beyond that, ss McIntosh amps that use autoformers will get you part-way there.

Some ss amps are "voiced" to sound tube-like, but, as the Carver demonstration showed, that voicing is inherently unstable, meaning that if you change speakers, it might be gone, or still there, or different. Pot luck.

So much misinformation in one thread, but the Counselor gets it right. :yes:

Overall and in general, if you have a SS amp that sounds like a tube amp, it probably is broken.

 

[chasmo]

My favorite system to date is a Nelson Pass designed Forte' Model 4 Pure Class A SS Amp (50 wpc) with a LAMM LL2 Deluxe Tube Preamp. Pure freaking magic to my ears

I agree with Retro about the sound of the Forte Model 4 (Actually, I'm told, the Forte Models 4,5,6 & 7 IGBT amplifier were designed by Mike Bladelius around the time Mr. Pass left Threshold, although the amps' front-end circuit was similar to Nelson's design).

I've enjoyed my Forte amps with both tubed and SS preamps; However, I prefer a Class-A FET preamp myself.

-Chas

 

[geiman]

I'm late to this thread but anything solid state that uses output transformers like the early solid state McIntosh designs sound very tube like.

 

[jdurbin1]

Neither of the Tandberg receiver models you've mentioned are MOSFET designs, other than in the FM front end. The TR 2080 and TR 1040 are bipolar designs. I forget what's in the 1040 but the 2080 uses Motorola TO-3 metal cased bipolar transistors.

Tandberg's first MOSFET designs were not until the 3000-series came along, starting with the 3012/3012A integrated amps and then the 3006A power amp.

John

Great info & advice... my Tandberg is a mosfet amp and thus has very low distortion... and in this particular new listening space, the sound is generally too strident and bright, even with the analog source (forget listening to cd's!). The Grant Fidelity tube buffer is a great suggestion, and it's only $200... this seems like a good option to play with throwing a variable into the mix (I'm thinking swapping speakers will also offer some different vocabulary). If it doesn't do the job through the ss pre/amp loop, it could always serve to modify the CD input. Worth a try, many thanks.

 

[Gang-Twanger]

Tubes produce even-ordered harmonic distortion, often in easily noticeable amounts, like 1%.
Bipolar transistors produce odd-ordered harmonic distortion, but usually in smaller amounts, like 0.1%.
FETs, V-FETs, HexFETS, and MOSFETs all produce even-ordered harmonic distortion, but usually in smaller amounts, so they don't sound quite as tubey as tubes, but are objectively more accurate.
Output transformers seem to make ss amps sound more tubelike, even though they don't change the distortion from odd to even harmonics.

So... if you want tubelike sound in an ss amp, look for an amp that uses one of the FET varieties. Some of the smaller Hafler MOSFET units come to mind and of course the Sony VFETs (rare and not cheap). Beyond that, ss McIntosh amps that use autoformers will get you part-way there.

Some ss amps are "voiced" to sound tube-like, but, as the Carver demonstration showed, that voicing is inherently unstable, meaning that if you change speakers, it might be gone, or still there, or different. Pot luck.

Or... you could use any good ss amp and a tube preamp, or... a ss preamp and amp and a tube buffer. Our sponsor Grant Fidelity makes two of those, I think: Tube Processors. Musical Fidelity used to make a reeaally good one, but it's not at all cheap, then or now:X-10v3

I'm pretty-sure that all of the early '70's Sansui "X" models use mosfets. I know my 2000x does - 78 watts of capacitor-coupled mosfet goodness. I believe the 4000 is the same way. These 2 models are the smoothest, most-tubey-sounding SS receivers I've ever heard. And they go extremely-well with my speakers. The more you turn them up, the more you enjoy them. Smooth smooth smooth, and surprisingly-clear for such old units (and damn-fine-looking if I do say so myself). My speakers are capable of a lot of bass and my living room is pretty-small (and I have the speakers sitting pretty-close to me), so I actually listen quite a bit with the low-filter switch on - 50hz and below get dropped 10db, and my speakers still kick. I need a good EQ so I can find a halfway point between the two settings.

I particularly-like how drums sound with the early SS Sansuis. There's a lot of depth and power to them. 70's rock & pop sounds especially-good. And funk sounds so-good I'd swear these "x" models were designed especially for playing funk music. I can't help but wonder if the "X" models are better-suited for that sort of music than the earlier tube units. My 2000x has a combination of smoothness and punch that I've not heard elsewhere. And it's the kind of sound that never fatigues the ears - You can listen all-day and night if you like (and I often do). Anyway, I can't afford a good tube amp/receiver at the moment, so it's a good thing that the "X" models are such sleepers - I only paid $55 for my 2000x, and it's in excellent shape (and my 4000 cost me $40 - The wood cabinet was more-beat-up on that one). Luckily, the models I like the most are also some of the least-expensive ones on the used market.

I have to wonder if the McIntoshes, Sherwoods, and Sony's from that same era ('72) were mosfet-driven as well.

 

[MX117.MC7150]

McIntosh has never used MOSFET outputs. Only Sony's I am aware of are the late ES pieces, the TA-F808ES (and siblings) and TA-E90ES power amp. They are terrific pieces and I wish I had kept my 808 for my second system.

 

[dangerbird]

Eh,, I had a Conrad Johnson solid state that sounded quite tubey.

 

[quadklipsh]

Are their any solid state receivers or integrated amps that sound almost tube like ? Looking to purchase a vintage amp 30-70 watts that can mimic the warm sound of a tube amp . Suggestions by brand appreciated . Thanks

My view : Sansui au777D.

 

[Zeissplanar]

I have two of the earlier solid state The Fisher receivers that sound very warm and tubesy. The 201 is a small 20wpc? that is surprisingly good, also have the fisher 701 that is the big brother and it sounds great.

 

[hatrack71]

What is the tube sound? That needs to be defined. Not all tubes sound alike so finding SS that sounds like tubes is sort of a moot point. Some sound better than SS, some sound worse. But which SS and which tubes? LOL. You want tube sound... but why? What is it you are hearing that you like in tubes? That could help us pinpoint a SS amp with a sound signature you might appreciate.

I do agree with McCormack gear. Not because it sounds like tubes... but because it sounds GOOD. And I've heard alot of referencing to tubes as "warm" but that's only part of it. Another SS company that made GOOD sounding gear was B&K.