swechsler
Frog Whisperer
Hmm, that's an interesting idea, and much easier. Will have to think about that.
DeFriend
Active Member
I run my mains full range.
The miniDSP 2x4HD is fantastic for low-pass subwoofer duty , but adds too much of a sonic veil when I high-passed my main speakers through it.
In addition to summing left and right channels, and low-pass crossover, I also have a mild narrow parametric bump around 25 or 30 HZ, and sharp parametric subsonic cut below 10 or 15 Hz.
(For about a decade, I previously used a Harrison Labs line-level passive crossover that does none of this parametric magic)
I'm not using a microphone and room correction, just good speaker placement and gentle tuning by ear.
I really wish the AD and DA conversion was cleaner, because I'd like to delay my main speakers for tighter transients, as well as high-passing them at about 30 Hz or so.
Audio Research LS7 line stage into a Threshold S/200 power amp is Very resolving with both vinyl and CD.
Subwoofer is currently powered by Parasound HCA-1000, and basically performs the same when powered by Rotel RB-980BX.
The combined system can play real music, cleanly, all day at 95+ dB, with peaks well above 100 dB (Radio Shack meter)
The miniDSP 2x4HD is fantastic for low-pass subwoofer duty , but adds too much of a sonic veil when I high-passed my main speakers through it.
In addition to summing left and right channels, and low-pass crossover, I also have a mild narrow parametric bump around 25 or 30 HZ, and sharp parametric subsonic cut below 10 or 15 Hz.
(For about a decade, I previously used a Harrison Labs line-level passive crossover that does none of this parametric magic)
I'm not using a microphone and room correction, just good speaker placement and gentle tuning by ear.
I really wish the AD and DA conversion was cleaner, because I'd like to delay my main speakers for tighter transients, as well as high-passing them at about 30 Hz or so.
Audio Research LS7 line stage into a Threshold S/200 power amp is Very resolving with both vinyl and CD.
Subwoofer is currently powered by Parasound HCA-1000, and basically performs the same when powered by Rotel RB-980BX.
The combined system can play real music, cleanly, all day at 95+ dB, with peaks well above 100 dB (Radio Shack meter)
David_NC
Super Member
I'm curious if this is a solution in search of a problem. From what I've read, a tube sub with proper acoustic insulation inside performs very well and doesn't really need additional damping.
David_NC
Super Member
Have you checked some of their higher models? They supposedly have really good AD/DA vs the $100-200 ones.
Mike Stehr
Poverty Audio
Nice to see Adire making subwoofers. (again?)
Here's my listening experience years ago with a friend who had a pair of 15" Tumults.
He had a friend with a Dodge Durango that was walled off behind the back seat and used six 15" Tempests...tuned to 37Hz if I remember right using Mmat amps. Easy 150dB burps...
""A local friend in the Air force had a pair of Tumult 15" subwoofers mounted in tower like enclosures. Heavy duty monsters, ported at the bottom of the enclosure to 16Hz.
I can't really recall the size of the enclosures, 6 foot or something.
He lived in roughly a 14' X 70' trailer at the time. Each sub was around 15' apart, and each powered by a Peavey 2500 watt pro-sound amp. The active crossover was a Outlaw ICBM or whatever.
They had a Term-lab meter that day, it's a car SPL meter that interfaces with a Laptop or PC. It only triggers at 120 db.
He had a source CD that had various sine waves and other crap.
The meter was about 12 feet back, or in the listening position.
He metered 122 db at 20Hz, and 124 db at 25Hz. 130 db at around a foot or so from the port.
This was continous power, hit the play button and watch the trailer-house become unglued....literally...
It was like a force field, anything on walls and shelves went to the floor. The Tumult's looked like they were suspended about two inches from the enclosures.
The window behind the listening position buzzed at 110 db.
A guy took a Parts Express flyer, and placed it near a port on one of the cabinets. The port sucked it in, ripped the flyer half, and then spit it back out....
We went outside, on the exterior wall behind the stereo.
The sheetmetal on the trailer behind the stereo was buzzing and bulging out about 2 or 3 inches, the same effect you see with high SPL car systems.
I don't think some folks are aware of how sickening stupid loud that is in a home application. And he had to push those amps almost full clip to pull those SPL's.""
Here's my listening experience years ago with a friend who had a pair of 15" Tumults.
He had a friend with a Dodge Durango that was walled off behind the back seat and used six 15" Tempests...tuned to 37Hz if I remember right using Mmat amps. Easy 150dB burps...
""A local friend in the Air force had a pair of Tumult 15" subwoofers mounted in tower like enclosures. Heavy duty monsters, ported at the bottom of the enclosure to 16Hz.
I can't really recall the size of the enclosures, 6 foot or something.
He lived in roughly a 14' X 70' trailer at the time. Each sub was around 15' apart, and each powered by a Peavey 2500 watt pro-sound amp. The active crossover was a Outlaw ICBM or whatever.
They had a Term-lab meter that day, it's a car SPL meter that interfaces with a Laptop or PC. It only triggers at 120 db.
He had a source CD that had various sine waves and other crap.
The meter was about 12 feet back, or in the listening position.
He metered 122 db at 20Hz, and 124 db at 25Hz. 130 db at around a foot or so from the port.
This was continous power, hit the play button and watch the trailer-house become unglued....literally...
It was like a force field, anything on walls and shelves went to the floor. The Tumult's looked like they were suspended about two inches from the enclosures.
The window behind the listening position buzzed at 110 db.
A guy took a Parts Express flyer, and placed it near a port on one of the cabinets. The port sucked it in, ripped the flyer half, and then spit it back out....
We went outside, on the exterior wall behind the stereo.
The sheetmetal on the trailer behind the stereo was buzzing and bulging out about 2 or 3 inches, the same effect you see with high SPL car systems.
I don't think some folks are aware of how sickening stupid loud that is in a home application. And he had to push those amps almost full clip to pull those SPL's.""
damacman
Resident Psycho
Rest assured that it is ... and good luck getting that expandable foam deep into a void of that depth.
donprice
Wound up workin' at a gas station....
Easy...drill hole through tube wall and insert straw...
...a sonotube sub would make good use of that unused cat shelf over the home theater system
Hobie1dog
subaholic
You should check out the Stereo Integrity SQL driver. It has twice the travel of the Tempest , 28mm one way compared to the 14mm of the Audire driver, twice the wattage rating, 1000 versus 500, lower inductance ( tighter bass ). And it is on sale now on preorder for 269.00
All the SI drivers are very high sound quality drivers. Even their 24" monster sub is audiophile quality sound.
The sensitivity is much higher too. 91db versus 88, 3dB is a big difference. The box size is only 2 cu. ft. for a sealed enclosure which would drastically decrease the size of your Sonotube required.
https://stereointegrity.com/product/sql-15/
All the SI drivers are very high sound quality drivers. Even their 24" monster sub is audiophile quality sound.
The sensitivity is much higher too. 91db versus 88, 3dB is a big difference. The box size is only 2 cu. ft. for a sealed enclosure which would drastically decrease the size of your Sonotube required.
https://stereointegrity.com/product/sql-15/
David_NC
Super Member
That sounds interesting; I'll check them out. I wonder which driver will play lower. Enclosure size, especially height, isn't an issue, so I'd like it to be whatever will give the lowest bass. Thanks!
Hobie1dog
subaholic
This is a great article to read about the myth of smaller subs are tighter than bigger diameter subwoofer drivers, which is not true, as it's all about the inductance of the driver.
Woofer Speed-
http://web.archive.org/web/20040403205713/http://www.adireaudio.com/tech_papers/woofer_speed.htm
Woofer Speed-
http://web.archive.org/web/20040403205713/http://www.adireaudio.com/tech_papers/woofer_speed.htm
Hobie1dog
subaholic
Bridge the amp for 900 watts and wire the coils in series.
The Tempest needs 20 cu ft. vented , tuned to 16hz.
The SQL-15 only needs 4.85 cu ft. tuned to 22hz.
With 900 watts the Tempest reaches xmax at 49 hz which really doesn't qualify it as a subwoofer. The SI driver with 1000 watts reaches xmax at 17hz, so it stomps all over the Tempest because of having 2 times the xmax
The Tempest needs 20 cu ft. vented , tuned to 16hz.
The SQL-15 only needs 4.85 cu ft. tuned to 22hz.
With 900 watts the Tempest reaches xmax at 49 hz which really doesn't qualify it as a subwoofer. The SI driver with 1000 watts reaches xmax at 17hz, so it stomps all over the Tempest because of having 2 times the xmax
DeFriend
Active Member
Well, I couldn't resist looking up the SQL-15.
My driver (Omega Pro 15) was chosen nearly 15 years ago to work with the found Sonotube-like enclosure.
I assume there are now better options.
I noticed the SQL-15 has nearly triple the inductance of what I already own; so their claim of low inductance is kind of wild.
The SQL-15 sensitivity is also a big step backward.
The SQL-15 does however have a lower resonant frequency and a much longer Xmax.
I guess for now, I'll continue to use what I have.
The bonus 6 dB of sensitivity (Eminence=97 versus SQL=91) gives me a fair amount of room to play with DSP and still get pretty decent low frequency response.
That being said, I'd still like to find a driver that can hit harder and lower in a 7 cubic foot volume, either sealed or ported.
Any other good options?
(I notice Parts Express has a sweet clearance sale on the neodymium versions of LaVoce 15")
My driver (Omega Pro 15) was chosen nearly 15 years ago to work with the found Sonotube-like enclosure.
I assume there are now better options.
I noticed the SQL-15 has nearly triple the inductance of what I already own; so their claim of low inductance is kind of wild.
The SQL-15 sensitivity is also a big step backward.
The SQL-15 does however have a lower resonant frequency and a much longer Xmax.
I guess for now, I'll continue to use what I have.
The bonus 6 dB of sensitivity (Eminence=97 versus SQL=91) gives me a fair amount of room to play with DSP and still get pretty decent low frequency response.
That being said, I'd still like to find a driver that can hit harder and lower in a 7 cubic foot volume, either sealed or ported.
Any other good options?
(I notice Parts Express has a sweet clearance sale on the neodymium versions of LaVoce 15")
DeFriend
Active Member
Well, I couldn't resist looking up the SQL-15.
My driver (Omega Pro 15) was chosen nearly 15 years ago to work with the found Sonotube-like enclosure.
I assume there are now better options.
I noticed the SQL-15 has nearly triple the inductance of what I already own; so their claim of low inductance is kind of wild.
The SQL-15 sensitivity is also a big step backward.
The SQL-15 does however have a lower resonant frequency and a much longer Xmax.
I guess for now, I'll continue to use what I have.
The bonus 6 dB of sensitivity (Eminence=97 versus SQL=91) gives me a fair amount of room to play with DSP and still get pretty decent low frequency response.
That being said, I'd still like to find a driver that can hit harder and lower in a 7 cubic foot volume, either sealed or ported.
Any other good options?
(I notice Parts Express has a sweet clearance sale on the neodymium versions of LaVoce 15")
My driver (Omega Pro 15) was chosen nearly 15 years ago to work with the found Sonotube-like enclosure.
I assume there are now better options.
I noticed the SQL-15 has nearly triple the inductance of what I already own; so their claim of low inductance is kind of wild.
The SQL-15 sensitivity is also a big step backward.
The SQL-15 does however have a lower resonant frequency and a much longer Xmax.
I guess for now, I'll continue to use what I have.
The bonus 6 dB of sensitivity (Eminence=97 versus SQL=91) gives me a fair amount of room to play with DSP and still get pretty decent low frequency response.
That being said, I'd still like to find a driver that can hit harder and lower in a 7 cubic foot volume, either sealed or ported.
Any other good options?
(I notice Parts Express has a sweet clearance sale on the neodymium versions of LaVoce 15")
DeFriend
Active Member
Well, I couldn't resist looking up the SQL-15.
My driver (Omega Pro 15) was chosen nearly 15 years ago to work with the found Sonotube-like enclosure.
I assume there are now better options.
I noticed the SQL-15 has nearly triple the inductance of what I already own; so their claim of low inductance is kind of wild.
The SQL-15 sensitivity is also a big step backward.
The SQL-15 does however have a lower resonant frequency and a much longer Xmax.
I guess for now, I'll continue to use what I have.
The bonus 6 dB of sensitivity (Eminence=97 versus SQL=91) gives me a fair amount of room to play with DSP and still get pretty decent low frequency response.
That being said, I'd still like to find a driver that can hit harder and lower in a 7 cubic foot volume, either sealed or ported.
Any other good options?
I notice Parts Express has a sweet clearance sale on the neodymium versions of LaVoce 15", this one in particular:
https://www.parts-express.com/lavoce-wan15400-15-neodymium-subwoofer-8-ohm--293-726
My driver (Omega Pro 15) was chosen nearly 15 years ago to work with the found Sonotube-like enclosure.
I assume there are now better options.
I noticed the SQL-15 has nearly triple the inductance of what I already own; so their claim of low inductance is kind of wild.
The SQL-15 sensitivity is also a big step backward.
The SQL-15 does however have a lower resonant frequency and a much longer Xmax.
I guess for now, I'll continue to use what I have.
The bonus 6 dB of sensitivity (Eminence=97 versus SQL=91) gives me a fair amount of room to play with DSP and still get pretty decent low frequency response.
That being said, I'd still like to find a driver that can hit harder and lower in a 7 cubic foot volume, either sealed or ported.
Any other good options?
I notice Parts Express has a sweet clearance sale on the neodymium versions of LaVoce 15", this one in particular:
https://www.parts-express.com/lavoce-wan15400-15-neodymium-subwoofer-8-ohm--293-726
David_NC
Super Member
You should be able to delete the duplicate.
Hobie1dog
subaholic
I have used the Omega 15 Pro drivers, but they fail really bad when asked to perform for sub duties. 4.8mm xmax will bottom the driver out quickly when asked to perform in the sub region. A SUBwoofer means below 20hz. Lots of regular woofers play 30hz on up fine. But ask them to play a 16hz pipe organ note, or reproduce single digit frequencies found in modern movies and they run out of excursion capabilities. If you use DSP, then it limits the output to protect the driver, then you end up with insufficient spl. As the old saying goes, " there's no replacement for displacement " Measuring the response that is produced in the room with a calibrated mic and a PC waterfall program, will reveal 3-10hz output in movies these days, with a large displacement driver that can travel 4" peak to peak. When a driver is restricted due to an electronic protection circuit, 40-60db output cannot be even felt.
Everyone has their reference, and "Contentment is destroyed by comparison ". I always chuckle when someone says that their 8" XXX brand of subwoofer with 100 watts "shakes their whole house". It's just like living in a small town that has a VW bug, a Taurus, and a Mustang. Everyone knows the Mustang eats the other two up. Then a McClaren supercar comes up and gives everyone a ride in it. After that nobody wants to ride in the other 3 anymore.
Look at the Lavoce driver from Parts Express, and the frequency response, it starts rolling off at 90hz. Their specs say 40 hz is the bottom of the frequency range, meaning it won't even play below 20hz in the real world with only 1/2" of linear travel. Through the years, if I bottom out a sub, I get rid of it and buy something that won't.
Everyone has their reference, and "Contentment is destroyed by comparison ". I always chuckle when someone says that their 8" XXX brand of subwoofer with 100 watts "shakes their whole house". It's just like living in a small town that has a VW bug, a Taurus, and a Mustang. Everyone knows the Mustang eats the other two up. Then a McClaren supercar comes up and gives everyone a ride in it. After that nobody wants to ride in the other 3 anymore.
Look at the Lavoce driver from Parts Express, and the frequency response, it starts rolling off at 90hz. Their specs say 40 hz is the bottom of the frequency range, meaning it won't even play below 20hz in the real world with only 1/2" of linear travel. Through the years, if I bottom out a sub, I get rid of it and buy something that won't.
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