Sonus Faber Concerto Grand Piano Speakers...help needed

[Mystery]

:thmbsp: As stated before, I'll be keeping an eye out for your assessment of these tweeters. I plan to use a pair in some DCM TF-1000s that I'm restoring.

Will do.
1st need to see what else I need to order from them as I have some projects that need caps and resistors.

If I had one original working, it'd be better comparison.
When both are new and both same company/model, I really doubt I can tell anything out of ordinary.

That's about the most perfect response curve I've ever seen for a tweeter. My eyes are seeing 87.5dB +/- 0.5dB from 2000-20kHz.

My earlier assumption that SF may have tweaked this off-the-shelf driver - I can't imagine what's left to improve.

Discussion above presents convincing evidence the original crossover is poorly designed, so it's no surprise you found them with dead tweeters.

Since SF dealers and even Seas just say they are customized for SF, I assume they added the Sonus Faber label in the front

 

[Dr. Morbius]

Will do.
1st need to see what else I need to order from them as I have some projects that need caps and resistors.

If I had one original working, it'd be better comparison.
When both are new and both same company/model, I really doubt I can tell anything out of ordinary.

Perhaps, but I trust you'll know a good tweeter when you hear it.

 

[Mystery]

Perhaps, but I trust you'll know a good tweeter when you hear it.

Let's see.
That tweeter has very good reviews so should sound good.

I ordered but they have to order from Norway so it'll be at least few weeks before I get them.

 

[Mystery]

Yay... tweeters are delivered today...
Looks like they shipped them in a Viking ship, took over a month from Norway.

 

[Mystery]

Poor Sonus looks like a wimpy skinny kid next to KLF's.
Testing with Luxman R-114 and even though Sonus is inefficient, it's plenty loud at 10 O'clock.

Oh, the replacement tweeter fits like a glove and is exactly same inside out minus the Sonus logo. :thmbsp:

 

[lunchbox22]

That's great news!! Very interested to hear your listening impressions. Gotta love it when stuff like this works out. And now we know a bit more about the 'proprietary' Sonus tweeters

 

[rebellovw]

Nice morning read - hope they sound sweet!

 

[Mystery]

That's great news!! Very interested to hear your listening impressions. Gotta love it when stuff like this works out. And now we know a bit more about the 'proprietary' Sonus tweeters

Nice morning read - hope they sound sweet!

Looks like they had to add a different number/designation on the tweeter when they added the logo to make it different than the stock ones.
Even the authorized dealer said they are almost same further adding that they are same but they can't say it's the same officially.
Manufacturer, model number, size and frequency response chart is exactly same throughout so it's safe to assume it's the same tweeter.

I had these ready and playing at 9 pm last night.
I usually go to bed before 11 pm but was up until 1 pm listening to them.
I hardly ever do that with any speakers.
And that's also from my phone's headphone out to RCA in without any good source or DAC nor a critical placement.
I'll enjoy little more and post how I feel but I guess you got the idea.
KLF's are way louder than Sonus but...

 

[Mystery]

Mystery, those tweeters from Madisound were pretty common back in the day. They were used in many speaker models including DCM Timeframes and Timewidows.

Should you order them and test them out, I'd love to hear what you think of them.

Perhaps, but I trust you'll know a good tweeter when you hear it.

This tweeter is very good.
I like them.
They are similar sounding to tweeters in Boston A400 and better.
Nice details and no sibilance.
You should get them if they are close replacements of what you have.

 

[Mystery]

Just finished comparing Sonus Faber GP against my favorite Boston A400's in the upstairs 12x12 room.
Winner: Sonus.
What I like on the Sonus is great separation and refined music.
A400's are pretty nice but they sound slightly noisy, lack some instrument separation compared to Sonus.
Also, vocals and instruments in Sonus are more easy/open in the ears.
A400's sound big and have great soundstage.
Highs sound similar tonally in both (maybe because both are SEAS tweeters) but Sonus sounds more detailed and cleaner.
Sonus needs a sub to compare in the low end but I have too many subs to work with so that's not a problem.
They do have great bass for one driver and can listen by themselves without a sub perfectly fine but for comparison against A400's, need a sub.

Next, bring A400 down in the living room and compare against the Vandersteen 3A's.

 

[audiomagnate]

Looks like they had to add a different number/designation on the tweeter when they added the logo to make it different than the stock ones.
Even the authorized dealer said they are almost same further adding that they are same but they can't say it's the same officially.
Manufacturer, model number, size and frequency response chart is exactly same throughout so it's safe to assume it's the same tweeter.

I had these ready and playing at 9 pm last night.
I usually go to bed before 11 pm but was up until 1 pm listening to them.
I hardly ever do that with any speakers.
And that's also from my phone's headphone out to RCA in without any good source or DAC nor a critical placement.
I'll enjoy little more and post how I feel but I guess you got the idea.
KLF's are way louder than Sonus but...

I repaired some Cremonas, and the BS that came from the Sumiko rep about driver source, exclusivity etc. was monumental. SF makes stickers, not drivers, and they're bone stock as far as I can see, measure, hear etc. Those stickers are worth their weight in plutonium. BTW, I can't imagine two more different sounding speakers than you have in your comparison.

 

[Mystery]

Yes, Klipsch are Sonus are very different.
Right now I have Sonus with JBL SVA1800 and Yamaha NS-690's setup in the front with a speaker selector. Different moods demand different speakers or just for the kicks, I switch them.

 

[JURB]

"The 2300hz crossover at 6db per octave is pushing the tweeters very hard."

I was going to say that but you beat me to it. That's probably why they're blown.

That design seems more like a two way with a sub than a three way.

 

[Mystery]

"The 2300hz crossover at 6db per octave is pushing the tweeters very hard."
May be they are bad at high levels.
Not sure how volume is much is too much for the tweeters.

 

[canuckaudiog]

Yeah I agree, a 6dB/octave slope (first order) at 2300Hz on a tweeter with an Fs of 1700Hz is too much in my opinion. You would want to use a 18 or 24dB slope at least using a crossover point like that (which I would not advise modifying the crossover for, as you will mess with the phasing).

The SF tweeter likely measures differently, perhaps it has a lower Fs to accomodate the crossover point. The dome material certainly looks a bit different. Hard to say. I have Seas 19TFF1s in a pair of Celestion 66s and it works like a treat. I like the sound, as you say no sibilance.

 

[audiomagnate]

Are you absolutely sure about that crossover point and slope? It doesn't sound right to me. That's not at all like how the Cremonas were set up.

 

[JimPA]

Are you absolutely sure about that crossover point and slope? It doesn't sound right to me. That's not at all like how the Cremonas were set up.

I previously linked the Stereophile review on post #2 which states the crossover is a 6db per octave at 2300hz .

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showpost.php?p=8235101&postcount=2

 

[JimPA]

Mystery I would contact Sonus Faber directly and bypass the dealers.

I really think there is a difference with the original oem Seas Sonus Faber tweeters compared to the replacements you have purchased.
The mass of the dome might be different and the oem versions might use a different type of dome material.
I see looking at the Seas spec sheet the replacements do use ferrofluid.

BTW the Hiquphons are more expensive then the oem Seas Sonus Faber tweeters.

http://www.ellisaudio.com/hiquphon.htm

 

[paololuigi]

Yes, I've been all over the internet and I think I found the tweeter.
You are right, they are Seas 3/4" tweeter and I've good info.
Read below.



I tested with a spare tweeter and tweeter works so crossover is good.
More on my troubleshooting below:

**********************
Found exact tweeter online. Well the model is same at least.

It's a Seas 3/4" tweeter.
I took the tweeter out from one speaker and it looks like this:

Then I searched the part # 19TFF and this came up: :smile:
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.c...estige-19tff1-h0737-3/4-textile-dome-tweeter/

It's the same model tweeter less the 'Sonus Faber' label in the front.
The back has few numbers different.
Instead of 827-8 Ohm 17/99, madisoundspeakerstore has 737-8 Ohm 8/10.
Not sure what those numbers mean.

BTW, I tested with a spare SL2000 on Seas' place and tweeter works so crossover is fine on that one and I assume same with other.
Even SL2000 made them sound pretty good during test.
It'll set me back little bit but I'm not gonna find another pair at reasonable price so they are not going back.

BTW, what cleans that orange oxidation?
I used windex on Polk speakers but would like to know if there is better option.
Thanks

the 19TFF1 tweeter works perfectly. Purchased and installed just yesterday on my Sonus Faber Concerto Grand Piano. The code is no mystery H 737 and 827 are just numerical codes of their respective products. I can guarantee, after installation, that the tweeter fits perfectly in the box and sounds like the original one, in fact in my opinion it is the same. Even by purchasing it on "www.triodo.it" the tweeter arrives without the sonus faber logo and without SF on the rear label except that you pay €80 more. The product received is identical to the original.

 

[paololuigi]

827 vs 737 is the remaining mystery then.
Hmm...

it's just an internal code doesn't mean nothing