Sony APM Questions

[YamahaFreak]

Hi all, I have recently become fascinated with Sony's curious APM square speaker driver technology, and managed to find two different pairs rather cheaply. As I understand it, there are a few distinct 'classes' of APM speakers, with the earlier ones being better quality (sonically and build quality) than the later ones...as with many things! The two that I acquired are a pair of 3-way APM-615 (Pic 1) and a small pair of speakers with no apparent model number (Pic 2). These both fall into the later category, after Sony began cutting corners to reduce costs, with the smaller speakers being slightly older, I believe. The smaller ones I originally thought were a two-way design with woofer and tweeter, but after viewing a pic of this model disassembled (Pic 3), it appears the top driver is a fullrange and the larger lower one is a passive radiator. Now comes the part where I ask questions! 1. After looking at the disassembled pic, it became apparent the foam surrounds on that particular pair had deteriorated. What do you think are the odds of this being the case on my pair? (I can't see the surrounds in the pics of the ones I got, and they haven't arrived yet.) I also cannot tell what the passives' surrounds are made from. I also worry about the surrounds on the woofers and mids on my yet-to-arrive APM-615s, as yet again, the pics I have are very vague. (Pic 1 is representative and my pair are black, not woodgrain vinyl.) At least one source points to the APM-615s having fabric surrounds, but info is scarce. 2. In the event I have bad surrounds on any of my drivers, is there anywhere or anyone that has square foam? I saw someone in Russia on the auction site with some, but they weren't for my specific APM models. This brings me to my last question. 3. How are Sony APM drivers measured - from side to side, like round drivers, or diagonally, from corner to corner? The APM-615 has an 8" woofer, but I cannot tell from photos how large it actually is in relation to a conventional round 8" driver. Thank you very much in advance for listening to my very long speech, and for any assistance and insight! EDIT: This forum is apparently wreaking havoc and breaking all my attempts to correctly format my paragraphs, so the unbroken wall of text is not my fault, I cannot fix it, and I apologize.

 

[YamahaFreak]

I picked up a minty pair of APM-22ES' a couple years ago for $60 (currently have them packed away in a closet). Solid well built cabs and attention to detail. They are fairly heavy and large for what I would consider a "smaller" 2 way speaker. I think the woofer equivalent is 8". They do sound very nice. They have black rubber surrounds. I'm not an expert in Sony APM speakers, but I never heard of them offered with cloth surrounds. Not familiar with the 615's but it looks like they may have the rubbers.

I've also read some mixed reviews about the later Sony APM versions being cheaply built and having smallish / weak tweeters. I've seen a few Akai versions in person but they seem like cheap knockoffs of the Sony's.

I am familiar with the 22ES having rubber surrounds, as well as a couple other models. Yes, the 615s are probably late 80s or maybe even early 90s models, and are nowhere near the quality of the original APM designs. The woofer and presumably midrange have a conventional round voice coil and magnet, mated to the rear of the square cone/diaphragm, though at least the diaphragms themselves still appear to be made out of Sony's unique aluminum honeycomb structure (the active drivers in the little guys, too, I think.) The 615s are comparable to any late 80s speaker as far as build quality, and Sony quite literally cut corners by using a standard round paper cone tweeter, behind a square-looking front plate. However, I paid very little for them, and they look really radical to me, and everyone I've shown the photos to is intrigued. They will make a great conversation starter! Do you have any more info about those Akai speakers you mentioned? I am always highly fascinated by any conventional electrodynamic (cone) driver that is any shape besides round, regardless of brand or quality!

 

[swechsler]

If you do a search for "square speaker foam" on the 'Bay, there are a few auctions from people selling surrounds for APM speakers. If you're lucky, one will fit the one you have. If not, you could always try contacting Rick Cobb; he seems to be able to get foam for anything.

 

[Tokylon]

Hi all, I have recently become fascinated with Sony's curious APM square speaker driver technology, and managed to find two different pairs rather cheaply. As I understand it, there are a few distinct 'classes' of APM speakers, with the earlier ones being better quality (sonically and build quality) than the later ones...as with many things! The two that I acquired are a pair of 3-way APM-615 (Pic 1) and a small pair of speakers with no apparent model number (Pic 2). These both fall into the later category, after Sony began cutting corners to reduce costs, with the smaller speakers being slightly older, I believe. The smaller ones I originally thought were a two-way design with woofer and tweeter, but after viewing a pic of this model disassembled (Pic 3), it appears the top driver is a fullrange and the larger lower one is a passive radiator. Now comes the part where I ask questions! 1. After looking at the disassembled pic, it became apparent the foam surrounds on that particular pair had deteriorated. What do you think are the odds of this being the case on my pair? (I can't see the surrounds in the pics of the ones I got, and they haven't arrived yet.) I also cannot tell what the passives' surrounds are made from. I also worry about the surrounds on the woofers and mids on my yet-to-arrive APM-615s, as yet again, the pics I have are very vague. (Pic 1 is representative and my pair are black, not woodgrain vinyl.) At least one source points to the APM-615s having fabric surrounds, but info is scarce. 2. In the event I have bad surrounds on any of my drivers, is there anywhere or anyone that has square foam? I saw someone in Russia on the auction site with some, but they weren't for my specific APM models. This brings me to my last question. 3. How are Sony APM drivers measured - from side to side, like round drivers, or diagonally, from corner to corner? The APM-615 has an 8" woofer, but I cannot tell from photos how large it actually is in relation to a conventional round 8" driver. Thank you very much in advance for listening to my very long speech, and for any assistance and insight! EDIT: This forum is apparently wreaking havoc and breaking all my attempts to correctly format my paragraphs, so the unbroken wall of text is not my fault, I cannot fix it, and I apologize.View attachment 732120 View attachment 732121 View attachment 732122

I just got some of these on auction for $20 and am anxious to see them up close....I know it's a fairly old topic but I'll have questions I'm sure.
T

 

[Tokylon]

I just got some of these on auction for $20 and am anxious to see them up close....I know it's a fairly old topic but I'll have questions I'm sure.
T

I actually got APM-690's. They are similar to the pic 1 posted by Yamaha Freak. 200 watt speakers. They are in ok shape and sound great playing with my newly acquired jvc rx-450 (20$ for the lot!) The foam all looks good from what I can tell but there is a small knick in the honeycomb of one sub. It doesn't seem to affect anything as the woofer is still tight. I do not have an audiophile ear yet but I would say that the speakers strong on the sub and mids and average on the tweeters. I did have the equalizer to work things out on my receiver to give a little extra treble as needed. All in all I am another happy owner of these mysterious Sony APMs...

Maybe I'll post some pics of my haul tomorrow and revive this thread...you know I'm gonna need parts and help eventually!

 

[Chip Chester]

I have a couple pair from my KV25XBR TV that need re-foamed. Had no idea foam was available... So now a winter project.

 

[Tokylon]

I actually got APM-690's. They are similar to the pic 1 posted by Yamaha Freak. 200 watt speakers. They are in ok shape and sound great playing with my newly acquired jvc rx-450 (20$ for the lot!) The foam all looks good from what I can tell but there is a small knick in the honeycomb of one sub. It doesn't seem to affect anything as the woofer is still tight. I do not have an audiophile ear yet but I would say that the speakers strong on the sub and mids and average on the tweeters. I did have the equalizer to work things out on my receiver to give a little extra treble as needed. All in all I am another happy owner of these mysterious Sony APMs...

Maybe I'll post some pics of my haul tomorrow and revive this thread...you know I'm gonna need parts and help eventually!

 

[Nat]

I was given a low end pair, from a rack system. They sounded better than they should have, given the flimsy and large cabinets, but I was annoyed that only the woofer was actually square - I might be wrong about the midrange, but certainly the tweeter, and I think the midrange, were standard cones firing into square shaped diffuser grills. And the woofer was only a square driven by a single voice coil attached to a cone with the square panel on top. Bummer.
Later - thinking about it, I believe that the midrange was, in fact, square, with the same voice coil driving a flat panel via a cone.
The better flat drivers had multiple voice coils so that the panel was driven over a large portion of its area. But one voice coil and a cone are easier and cheaper (the Technics flat drivers I've seen use the cone also).

 

[Max cando]

Hi all, I have recently become fascinated with Sony's curious APM square speaker driver technology, and managed to find two different pairs rather cheaply. As I understand it, there are a few distinct 'classes' of APM speakers, with the earlier ones being better quality (sonically and build quality) than the later ones...as with many things! The two that I acquired are a pair of 3-way APM-615 (Pic 1) and a small pair of speakers with no apparent model number (Pic 2). These both fall into the later category, after Sony began cutting corners to reduce costs, with the smaller speakers being slightly older, I believe. The smaller ones I originally thought were a two-way design with woofer and tweeter, but after viewing a pic of this model disassembled (Pic 3), it appears the top driver is a fullrange and the larger lower one is a passive radiator. Now comes the part where I ask questions! 1. After looking at the disassembled pic, it became apparent the foam surrounds on that particular pair had deteriorated. What do you think are the odds of this being the case on my pair? (I can't see the surrounds in the pics of the ones I got, and they haven't arrived yet.) I also cannot tell what the passives' surrounds are made from. I also worry about the surrounds on the woofers and mids on my yet-to-arrive APM-615s, as yet again, the pics I have are very vague. (Pic 1 is representative and my pair are black, not woodgrain vinyl.) At least one source points to the APM-615s having fabric surrounds, but info is scarce. 2. In the event I have bad surrounds on any of my drivers, is there anywhere or anyone that has square foam? I saw someone in Russia on the auction site with some, but they weren't for my specific APM models. This brings me to my last question. 3. How are Sony APM drivers measured - from side to side, like round drivers, or diagonally, from corner to corner? The APM-615 has an 8" woofer, but I cannot tell from photos how large it actually is in relation to a conventional round 8" driver. Thank you very much in advance for listening to my very long speech, and for any assistance and insight! EDIT: This forum is apparently wreaking havoc and breaking all my attempts to correctly format my paragraphs, so the unbroken wall of text is not my fault, I cannot fix it, and I apologize.View attachment 732120 View attachment 732121 View attachment 732122

Hi I dont know how to say this but here we go!:
These models,in the pictures are Sony APM assembled in USA, with some drivers too. They are no match to the original APM first class cabinets and drivers made in Japan and later in Germany by Sony Wega,
These models are a shame and brought a bad karma to Sony APM , as the cabinets are thinner ,mediocre wooden cabinets,with crap finish ,and rubbish stands.In the 90s Sony USA made the SS-M3/7/9 too with crap drivers but nice cabinets. There are original Sony APM imported Real Mc Coy speakers in USA , just keep looking but they are dear
Like Sony APM-55/77,22,33 gems . These are the original APM you will never be dissapointed.
Im selling the original rubber surrounds ,and can be cut to size to fit bigger models .

 

[Ds2000]

Hi I dont know how to say this but here we go!:
These models,in the pictures are Sony APM assembled in USA, with some drivers too. They are no match to the original APM first class cabinets and drivers made in Japan and later in Germany by Sony Wega,
These models are a shame and brought a bad karma to Sony APM , as the cabinets are thinner ,mediocre wooden cabinets,with crap finish ,and rubbish stands.In the 90s Sony USA made the SS-M3/7/9 too with crap drivers but nice cabinets. There are original Sony APM imported Real Mc Coy speakers in USA , just keep looking but they are dear
Like Sony APM-55/77,22,33 gems . These are the original APM you will never be dissapointed.
Im selling the original rubber surrounds ,and can be cut to size to fit bigger models .

Bit of fun, the Sony ESPRIT APM-8 was shoehorned into the SS-G9 cabinet. Only the baffle cutouts were different. The original APM-9 design was quite different, they settled on the 8.
The 6 is in a nice bent ply cabinet.

 

[Max cando]

Hi all, I have recently become fascinated with Sony's curious APM square speaker driver technology, and managed to find two different pairs rather cheaply. As I understand it, there are a few distinct 'classes' of APM speakers, with the earlier ones being better quality (sonically and build quality) than the later ones...as with many things! The two that I acquired are a pair of 3-way APM-615 (Pic 1) and a small pair of speakers with no apparent model number (Pic 2). These both fall into the later category, after Sony began cutting corners to reduce costs, with the smaller speakers being slightly older, I believe. The smaller ones I originally thought were a two-way design with woofer and tweeter, but after viewing a pic of this model disassembled (Pic 3), it appears the top driver is a fullrange and the larger lower one is a passive radiator. Now comes the part where I ask questions! 1. After looking at the disassembled pic, it became apparent the foam surrounds on that particular pair had deteriorated. What do you think are the odds of this being the case on my pair? (I can't see the surrounds in the pics of the ones I got, and they haven't arrived yet.) I also cannot tell what the passives' surrounds are made from. I also worry about the surrounds on the woofers and mids on my yet-to-arrive APM-615s, as yet again, the pics I have are very vague. (Pic 1 is representative and my pair are black, not woodgrain vinyl.) At least one source points to the APM-615s having fabric surrounds, but info is scarce. 2. In the event I have bad surrounds on any of my drivers, is there anywhere or anyone that has square foam? I saw someone in Russia on the auction site with some, but they weren't for my specific APM models. This brings me to my last question. 3. How are Sony APM drivers measured - from side to side, like round drivers, or diagonally, from corner to corner? The APM-615 has an 8" woofer, but I cannot tell from photos how large it actually is in relation to a conventional round 8" driver. Thank you very much in advance for listening to my very long speech, and for any assistance and insight! EDIT: This forum is apparently wreaking havoc and breaking all my attempts to correctly format my paragraphs, so the unbroken wall of text is not my fault, I cannot fix it, and I apologize.View attachment 732120 View attachment 732121 View attachment 732122

Hi all Sony APM series made in USA are a shame with rubbish cabinets and toy drivers .I dont know why Sony made that mistake to allow them to make these sham .
The real Mc Coys are made in Japan like APM:33/55/77/6/8 and made by Sony Wega in Germany like Sony APM-20/22/12/121,141/181/66 gems ,
max The Sony guy UK

 

[{tpc}]

I've been looking to get my hands on some sony apm-500 or apm-700 speakers to complete my setup. Of course I don't want to pay thousands for them either. Is there a specific way to tell which ones are worth buying, and/or a guide to value?

 

[Max cando]

Hi first of all congratulations on your collection
!! Sony APM made in Japan or Germany are the real Mc Coy gems .No USA made are a shame those.
APM-500/700 are superb selling on ebay and cheap !! 700 are better 80/160 W and 6 ohms better than 8 ohms .
These are De - Lux speakers
Price £ 150-200
Do you have any APM-33W?
Max

 

[{tpc}]

Hi first of all congratulations on your collection
!! Sony APM made in Japan or Germany are the real Mc Coy gems .No USA made are a shame those.
APM-500/700 are superb selling on ebay and cheap !! 700 are better 80/160 W and 6 ohms better than 8 ohms .
These are De - Lux speakers
Price £ 150-200
Do you have any APM-33W?
Max

I don’t have any apm speakers at the moment. I’m looking for some though, with the gray cabinets.

I think my dad has the big floor Sony apms…i remember how they looked when I was a kid, but for my application I want the smaller bookshelf style.

 

[painttoad]

if i remember correctly, the true apm woofers have 5 divets on the cone . the ones with 4 divets have a traditional voice coil with bracing extending from the center outward on the back of the cone. i'm sure there are exceptions and someone else will know better than i.

i couldnt tell you exact model numbers other than the apm 77 is a true apm, the apm 66 is not

if you aren't familiar...real apm

"fake" apm.

 

[{tpc}]

if i remember correctly, the true apm woofers have 5 divets on the cone . the ones with 4 divets have a traditional voice coil with bracing extending from the center outward on the back of the cone. i'm sure there are exceptions and someone else will know better than i.

i couldnt tell you exact model numbers other than the apm 77 is a true apm, the apm 66 is not

if you aren't familiar...real apm

"fake" apm.

Very interesting. I know my dads speakers are up at his cottage, but I feel like they are more likely 66.

How does that line up with the bookshelf apms? All the photos I have seen of the bookshelf models don't show any divets.

 

[{tpc}]

Scratch that I may have spoke too soon. When I looked up the apm-33w's I see the divets.

I'm trying to matchup a syscon system, but I think a lot of the stuff was separates, but a lot of photos I have found show apm-500 or 700. Really I just want something with the square cones in a gray cabinet.

 

[painttoad]

Scratch that I may have spoke too soon. When I looked up the apm-33w's I see the divets.

I'm trying to matchup a syscon system, but I think a lot of the stuff was separates, but a lot of photos I have found show apm-500 or 700. Really I just want something with the square cones in a gray cabinet.

a -w- suffix denotes a wood cabinet, that much i do know.

 

[Max cando]

I don’t have any apm speakers at the moment. I’m looking for some though, with the gray cabinets.

I think my dad has the big floor Sony apms…i remember how they looked when I was a kid, but for my application I want the smaller bookshelf style.

Hi get any
APM-22ES/33W or 500/700
Book shelf type
The APM-33W are floor standing but small cabinets £400 normal price
Do not get any made in USA .Most of the woofers are made of tin instead of solid Aluminium as should be .
Sony APM-12/121/141/181 made in Germany or 20/22
APM-33W /500/700 are made in Japan
All small cabinets solid aluminium frames
Max

 

[{tpc}]

Hi get any
APM-22ES/33W or 500/700
Book shelf type
The APM-33W are floor standing but small cabinets £400 normal price
Do not get any made in USA .Most of the woofers are made of tin instead of solid Aluminium as should be .
Sony APM-12/121/141/181 made in Germany or 20/22
APM-33W /500/700 are made in Japan
All small cabinets solid aluminium frames
Max

Thank you for the information!