Sorry But Idler-Wheel TT's Do Not Make Sense
- Thread starter jdscott60
- Start date
scubaguy10
Well-Known Member
OK, lets try to flameout here a little. The OP's experience was with a BSR changer 35 years ago. I had the same thing about then, and mine sucked as well (and tore up some records). I should have had a Dual. I have a Dual 1226 now in the bedroom, actually from that mid 70s era, and it sounds very nice.
I would admit that idlers can have rumble issues, but in properly maintained good quality tables it won't be a problem.
Basic premise here is that BSRs were the worst turntables in history.
I would admit that idlers can have rumble issues, but in properly maintained good quality tables it won't be a problem.
Basic premise here is that BSRs were the worst turntables in history.
cant explain
I was not a believer of idler turntable until I hear one. The thoughts was that as long as the speed is accurate of a belt driven turntable, why to get a idler and deal with all the rumble and noise? It seems makes no sense.
Then I got a idler a rek-o-kut, then a QRK, and I cant explain but the sound is just different from a belt driven turntable, it has the backbone and solid bass, the sound just feel a lot strong and full compare to the belt driven ones. and that's with the same vinyl and same cartridge...
still dont know why that's the case but hearing is to believe... Now I got 5 or 6 idler... looking for a lenco now...
I was not a believer of idler turntable until I hear one. The thoughts was that as long as the speed is accurate of a belt driven turntable, why to get a idler and deal with all the rumble and noise? It seems makes no sense.
Then I got a idler a rek-o-kut, then a QRK, and I cant explain but the sound is just different from a belt driven turntable, it has the backbone and solid bass, the sound just feel a lot strong and full compare to the belt driven ones. and that's with the same vinyl and same cartridge...
still dont know why that's the case but hearing is to believe... Now I got 5 or 6 idler... looking for a lenco now...
By your own admission your experience is limited to an old BSR and a Dual (model number unknown).
So how does it follow that you make this statement?
boreas
"If it sounds good, it IS good." E.K.E.
AAA3330
Super Member
I would likely have thought the same thing and perhaps at one time did, but done right I now know that all three designs can be excellent or designed poorly and cheaply and be junk. A BSR is pretty much at the bottom of the barrel as far as build quality, so is a poor example to base your judgement upon. Another thing to keep in mind is that rubber hardens as it ages, so if you have an older idler turntable and are getting rumble, it may be that the rubber has hardened over the years and needs to be replaced. This has nothing to do with the build quality of the turntable.
Last edited:
I agree. I just voiced my opinion, and not only based on my old BSR TT (there's more idler-wheel TT's to the story than that!). But, in the interest of being objectively realistic.... I felt I needed to point out specs, and, upon being lambasted, things got mis-construed, mis-judged, placed out of context, and, the bottom line is, I am just glad that everyone likes their TT's despite what I said I like or prefer. Peace! I never intended to cause any trouble. Please allow me to declare this thread dead. Thank you all for understanding.
JBL GUY
Addicted Member
jdscott60, you are entitled to have your own opinions, based on your experience.
However there is more to the sound quality of the music reproduced by a turntable than the published specifications. This is a much discussed topic on
AK.
With only a few exceptions, the drive systems on turntables are 'kick and coast", idler, belt drive or direct drive.
All drive systems have their pros and cons.
As one that has used optical interferometry to analyze the vibrational modes of a turntable, I can tell you that published specifications do not tell the whole story with regards to the sound quality of the music reproduced by a turntable.
An idler drive turntable, using a motor with a well balanced armature, a machine turned shaft, quality bearings, proper motor isolation, a precision built idler with quality bearings, a platter with a precision bearing and inner rim will be a very quiet turntable.
You are limiting your options and drawing conclusions based on limited experience,
Published specifications to not tell the entire story and may be misleading.
Take time to get out and listen to some quality turntables of all drive types. Then form your opinions and choose what you prefer.
On AK, you will find that individual preferences for turntables runs the gamut and includes all types.
However there is more to the sound quality of the music reproduced by a turntable than the published specifications. This is a much discussed topic on
AK.
With only a few exceptions, the drive systems on turntables are 'kick and coast", idler, belt drive or direct drive.
All drive systems have their pros and cons.
As one that has used optical interferometry to analyze the vibrational modes of a turntable, I can tell you that published specifications do not tell the whole story with regards to the sound quality of the music reproduced by a turntable.
An idler drive turntable, using a motor with a well balanced armature, a machine turned shaft, quality bearings, proper motor isolation, a precision built idler with quality bearings, a platter with a precision bearing and inner rim will be a very quiet turntable.
You are limiting your options and drawing conclusions based on limited experience,
Published specifications to not tell the entire story and may be misleading.
Take time to get out and listen to some quality turntables of all drive types. Then form your opinions and choose what you prefer.
On AK, you will find that individual preferences for turntables runs the gamut and includes all types.
Fortunately I listen to music and not specifications. I listen to music for enjoyment, in fact I am in this hobby for enjoyment.
Idler driven turntables sound good. I listen to music to enjoy it so that is important to me.
grooveman
Super Member
Try listening to a Garrard 301, Thorens 124, Lenco L75 or Rek O Kut B12H with a decent arm/cartridge mounted in a nice heavy solid plinth. It'll blow away any of your cheaply made 70's Belt/DD junk by a mile. Why do you think these same turntables are as highly regarded as they are today? It's because they deliver a moving listening experience with tons of PRAT that most turntables can only hope to acheive!
Hey, hey, hey!!!!
How about American made broadcast stuff? Russco, QRK, Harris etc.....
grooveman
Super Member
Hey, hey, hey!!!!
How about American made broadcast stuff? Russco, QRK, Harris etc.....
No doubt about it! I own a Lafayette PK-245 that is a Teac made Japanese clone of a REK or Presto style idler! If only I had my 50 year old spec sheet handy! LOL!
Old_School
Well-Known Member
First off, you are revealing a great deal of ignorance about idlers with the above. Yes, console TTs tended to be changers. Changers tend to be light plattered (regardless of drive), light platters need "assistance" from the drive system more often, so they tend to a) spec poorly, and b) sound like ass. There are exceptions (mainly DD tables). However, I have no idea what caused you to come to the conclusion that idlers all have light platters. That's so fundamentally wrong, I can see where some may conclude you are trolling.
I honestly wonder what the goal of this thread may be. Given that idlers have a huge following among people who truly respect and seek the best reproduction of sound, is this an attempt to brand them as fools?
You state you prefer a heavy platter, yet most DD tables, which would out-spec all but the best BDs, have relatively light platters. Can you reconcile this?
I use a DD at the moment - Technics SP-25, in a heavy plinth. As it has been modified a bit, and the mounting isn't factory, I have no idea what the specs are. I don't care, as it douns bloody good. I have also heard custom idler drives in the homes of some acquaintances, and can say that they are obviously better than the SP-25.
I would caution against jumping to conclusions without a broader experience. You may sprain something.
gillsev
Well-Known Member
+1
All my TT's from my TD124 to Lab 80 to 1229Q are all idlers to my complete satisfaction. Even my Garrard Type A has no hint of a rumble if you can believe that!
He should have entitled his thread, "Sorry But BSR TTs Do Not Make Sense"
12ax7
Super Member
I'm sorry, I've read this whole thread and respect everyone's views and experiences but I can't get the image of the OP standing there with his finger on the ground wire while he listened to a record out of my head. Hope it wasn't "In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida" or some other such opus.
The inner platter on the table above weighs 11 pounds, but in all fairness the idler is driven by a belt.
The inner platter on the table above weighs 11 pounds, but in all fairness the idler is driven by a belt.
+++++++++ on a well adjusted and maintained idler drive can sound very good. I run mainly changers (Elac, Garrard, Dual) plus I have some BD and DD tables with the changers available for the wife, and they end up on the main systems. Most of my idlers have heavier platters than my DD and BD. Probably the heaviest is a tossup between the 1229 and the ZERO 100. Both go about 7#. the heaviest DD I have is about 3# (SL-1400), and BD 2# (PL-115D.). I'm probably one of the few that gets a kick out of watching the interaction in the mechanism while it's cycling. Even the RC-88/4 works like new and is as quiet as the DUAL 1229.
Larry
Larry
bobaloniny
newt
OP is getting alot of mileage outta this thread. I didnt see any asking of whats the attraction, or why, just a blanket statement/ semi rant, more or less. If one had read through the TT forum at least once before posting, one would realize such a post would crank about half of the populous.
Last edited:
Sorry, once I read this, I read enough. The effects of ambient temperature changes in most homes on a rubber wheel border on trivial to absurd.
And "other climatic factors" well that's just :lmao:
