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Sorta Bozak Urbans

Hope it works out well for you. I could never fall in love with the sound of these things. I always thought the upper midrange was a little too harsh. That may have been the Rhapsody crossover though, its considerably different than the one used in older models and not compatible with the Tobin mods on it's own. Also probably partly my ears. I tend to prefer 2-way speakers that many people describe as having a "hole" in the middle.

Yeah, that Rhapsody crossover is typical 70s trash. Which is where I tossed mine. I built proper Bozak inspired 3 ways for mine. Just 8uf cap and an lpad for the tweeters. Balance, creamy smooth precision. The old B200 y tweeters show their age by dying early. But they do whatever they do quite well. I prefer the Rhapsodys over the 302s and the Symphonys.

Biggles
 
All totaled. I’m up to 240 dollars of investment. I’ve kept that fiat running on my own for 30 of its 41 years so Hoping my skill set transfers from dropping in new cams and doing brakes etc to infinite baffle design.
If you've done all the mechanicals on that Fiat, let's just say I don't think many speaker projects are beyond your ability to put things together. Nice looking car.
 
any suggestions on best methods to seal these speaker to the baffle. Silicone?
If you mean like a silicone adhesive caulk, I would avoid it, as you may need to remove drivers down the road and that might be a mess.
Parts Express has a speaker gasket tape that works well. I’ve gone, almost exclusively now, with Foam window seal tape from Home Depot with very satisfactory results:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/M-D-Bui...-17-ft-Foam-Weatherstrip-Tape-02253/100353460

it is flexible and adheres pretty well to the baffle or the driver…
 
thanks, i have a ton of that stuff in the cellar. I used to use in the house, now I just heat the house with the Dynaco.
 
Seal the speakers to the baffle? They got screws, right? That's all you need.

The cover over the mid should be sealed, latex caulk.

Biggles
 
Hope it works out well for you. I could never fall in love with the sound of these things. I always thought the upper midrange was a little too harsh. That may have been the Rhapsody crossover though, its considerably different than the one used in older models and not compatible with the Tobin mods on it's own. Also probably partly my ears. I tend to prefer 2-way speakers that many people describe as having a "hole" in the middle.

Very likely not your ears. Bozak was trying to compete with other awful speakers and made its own awful speaker. Nobody wins that speaker comparison battle, particularly the consumer.

I don't own a Rhapsody, and the crossover schematics are often inaccurate or different, but here's what I have in my notes about the stock Rhapsody.

The Rhapsody:
(a) Switchably overlaps woofer and midrange to boost the low end;
(b) Switchably gaps or overlaps midrange and tweeter to reduce or boost the midrange.​
Such a design, of course, is disastrous for the sound.

NB:
The crossover points as set forth may be incorrect for all models, as I have not directly pulled them from a crossover and somewhere found them without noting the source.
The stock schematic for the Rhapsody crossover only notes the capacitor values, which likely suggests Bozak used multiple inductor values to tinker with the crossover point over the speaker's lifespan.​

The ceilings for the crossover are (again, based upon what I read in the documentation and elsewhere on the interwebs) peculiar:
Woofer crossover ceiling point is fixed by an inductor at ≈800 Hz. This value makes no sense given the midrange crossover point of 1,326 Hz for two switch positions and 796 Hz for the third. So it is likely that the inductor is smaller and the woofer actually transitions slightly higher at 1,250 Hz as this is reasonably close and a standard crossover point for other Bozak models and it would overlap with the midrange for two "normal bass" positions and one "boost bass" position. The schematic does not specify the inductor's value.

Midrange crossover ceiling is fixed by an inductor at ≈2,500 Hz. Again, the gap between this point and the tweeter at 5,000 Hz or 8,000 Hz makes it unclear if the midrange actually runs to 5,000 Hz with a smaller inductor. Using 5,000 Hz makes more sense given the switchable positions of 7,958 Hz, 4,979 Hz, or 1,989 Hz, as that would correspond to "treble mute", "treble normal", and "treble boost". The schematic does not specify the inductor's value. It is not clear why Bozak added gaps, instead of using the 8 µF capacitor standard on the numerous Bozak three-way models transitioning at ≈2,500 Hz (actual 2,498 Hz).​

The switch selects a combination of:
(a) Midrange capacitor of either 10µF or 25 µF.
(b) Tweeter capacitor of 2.5 µF, 5 µF, or 10 µF.​
But all combinations are not available.

A switch controls the crossover point only for the midrange and tweeter:
Position 1 (Bass Muted, Treble Muted)
Midrange Floor: 1,326 Hz (15 µF)
Tweeter Floor: 7,958 Hz (2.5 µF)
Result:
(a) Woofer and midrange have a gap from 800 Hz to 1,326 Hz.
(b) Tweeter output is reduced by creating a gap between midrange and tweeter from ≈2,500 Hz to ≈8,000 Hz.

Position 2 (Bass Muted, Treble Muted)
Midrange Floor: 1,326 Hz (15 µF)
Tweeter Floor: 4,979 Hz (5 µF)
Result:
(a) Midrange and woofer have a gap from ≈800 Hz to 1,326 Hz.
(b) Midrange and tweeter have a gap from ≈2,500 Hz to ≈5,000 Hz.

Position 3 (Bass Normal, Treble Boosted)
Midrange Floor: 796 Hz (25 µF)
Tweeter Floor: 1,989 Hz (10 µF)
Result:
(a) Midrange and woofer transition at ≈800 Hz. (Only matching point!)
(b) Midrange and tweeter slightly overlap from ≈2,000 Hz to ≈2,500 Hz, boosting output and creating distortion.​

If one were going to create a speaker with comb artifacts and distortion, boosted woofer at the high end of the range, overlapping midrange and woofer, overlapping midrange and tweeter, it would be more difficult to effect awfulness worse than the Rhapsody's crossover points.

Similar awfulness abounds in the two-way designs, and the ported cabinets, filled with fiberglass instead of cotton batting and lacking any curtain, which strangle the B-199 with a backwave..

@drbiggles fixed the Rhapsody awfulness by using the speaker as raw material, i.e. a cabinet and drivers, and then from-scratch constructing a Tobin crossover with an L-pad for the tweeter attenuation.

Edit: Fixed some math and clarified crossover points.
 
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Which is why the four-way modification, adding a super-tweeter at 8,000 Hz and removing the distortion of the B-200Y which increases with frequency, is the next obvious improvement.

I'd like to try the offering vinyl David suggested by simply replacing the B200ys altogether. He and others have been working behind the scenes trying to find a drop in replacement. They state they've found it, I believe them and iam willing to blow the cash and find out. iam not going to at the moment because iam gone 6 days a week and cowering the 7th, no time. The B199 and B209 series cannot be replaced. But there's no love lost on the B200 series tweeters. They need to go.

Biggles
 
thanks, i have a ton of that stuff in the cellar. I used to use in the house, now I just heat the house with the Dynaco.
Ain’t that the truth?! I was running my Dynacos outside and local news had to do a weather alert warning of the unexpected heat wave…
 
I'd like to try the offering vinyl David suggested by simply replacing the B200ys altogether. He and others have been working behind the scenes trying to find a drop in replacement. They state they've found it, I believe them and iam willing to blow the cash and find out. iam not going to at the moment because iam gone 6 days a week and cowering the 7th, no time. The B199 and B209 series cannot be replaced. But there's no love lost on the B200 series tweeters. They need to go.


Is it a money saver that apparently my hearing is shot above 10k ?
 
Is it a money saver that apparently my hearing is shot above 10k ?

If your hearing is shot over 10k, I wouldn't bother. Properly working, Properly done B200y's are all you'll ever want or need.

Biggles

PS - iam probably not that far behind you.
 
another dumb question, driving around the mid atlantic has resulted in me having 4 199 woofers they all look good as far as i can tell. The first 2 are 1961 vintage, the other 2 are later but one is a 199A, and the other is a 199 ceramic, stand about an inch shorter. so should I use the slightly newer mildly mismatched pair (one a ceramic maget and one not) or just stick in the matched 61's.

Tonight i have been cotton batting away on the interiors, I also used a dental tool and thin rubber cord to seal up and leaks I could find.
 
Not really. If you AB'd them, spent some time, you could tell a difference. But not for daily listening. I'd be far more worried about blowing them with your equipment. Those early ones were designed when tube amplifiers were the norm. I think they have a max of 25 watts. You'd probably be alright, but I'd still go for the later pair. Viva la difference!

Biggles
 
Is it a money saver that apparently my hearing is shot above 10k ?

Two issues:
(1) Many times boosting the higher frequencies can overcome age-related hearing loss. The Morel super-tweeters I suggested for Bozaks are very efficient so it should be possible to boost without an equalizer. The L-pad would normally be used to attenuate, so it can be reduced to compensate for meat failure.

(2) Some perception of higher-frequency sound does not use the ears, and uses skin and bones for conduction to neurons. I have not studied this and am unable to tell you how significant it is.​

The B-200Y also begins to distort around 10k Hz, and even with greatly reduced higher-frequency hearing such distortion may be audible and objectionable.
 
another dumb question, driving around the mid atlantic has resulted in me having 4 199 woofers they all look good as far as i can tell. The first 2 are 1961 vintage, the other 2 are later but one is a 199A, and the other is a 199 ceramic, stand about an inch shorter. so should I use the slightly newer mildly mismatched pair (one a ceramic maget and one not) or just stick in the matched 61's.

When the ferrite magnets were designed as replacement for the alnico the magnet strength should have been matched to maintain the same characteristics. I doubt you could hear any difference. Much of the desire for alnico is audio fetishism.

Tonight i have been cotton batting away on the interiors, I also used a dental tool and thin rubber cord to seal up and leaks I could find.

One caution. Do not make the speakers completely airtight, as this will create a barometer. A small amount of leakage is required. I've elsewhere explained this.
 
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