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Souther linear arm

I continue to be suprized/astonished with the mod'ed Souther tho' don't really understand why carts that sound OK in other reasonably decent set-ups are raised an order of magnitude in this thing. Sparky and I are colleagues and on friendly terms so I do take his observations and criticisms quite seriously and still don't understand why this thing does what it does to make me believe what I am hearing rather than to just observe it via audition. Most of my other universally coveted mid-Fi set-ups (also nearly all DD) sound like competent appliances at best compared to this fine musical instrument grade result and I don't really understand why that should be. The only other TT present that suggests this level of performance is an H-K T60 on which I have done similar resonance management mods and Sparky has it right, the stock Souther is a full-blown resonance festival. Once they are dealt with it really comes into it's own. Sparky's other objection to the loosey-goosey bearing arrangement should be audible as a blurring of detail and event edges expressed as "raspiness" and it has yet to be heard, it's entirely possible that this is something that the resonance management handles or that I'd hear more by it's absence via a better set-up that does everything right this one does and more/better.
 
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Because it's one of the best arms ever and with the tri-quartz version Lou eliminated many of its resonance problems. I understand that the Clearaudio improvements have pretty much eliminated any residual resonance problems. I'm holding out for the Pio1980 model though.
 
I'm considering another damper to go where the added 3rd quartz rod went on the later Tri-Quartz. Basically a coffee swizzle stick filled with glass micro-beads plugged with cotton fluff (like with the arm stick) and glued to the center of the rail plate.
It's real easy to move the resonance modes and freqs around, not so much to quell them.
 
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Was an insignificant Souther dealer back in the day and in a word - no. In addition to phone conversations I met him at a few CES's - a great guy.
 
I'm getting set to do another damping mod upgrade to my SLA-3 as an alternative/improvement on the Tri-Quartz and needed a removable yet durable flexible adhesive. The answer appears to be something called "fugitive" glue, used for the credit card and similar mailings and sometimes called "booger glue".
Found it online from Amazon and Wal-Mart as;
Glue Dots 1/2-Inch Removable Dots, 200-Clear Dots/Roll
Looks like something very useful for this sort of DIY.

The mod will consist of 2 Popsicle stix Elmers-glued together and died black to be attached with 3 dots of the fore-mentioned to the top of the rail plate, with a section of micro-glass bead-filled BIC pen barrel likewise attached to the stix.
Alternatively, I may just go with the damper tube depending on how the 'modeling' goes if I determine that the added stiffening is unnecessary.
 
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I've been helping a bud remount some truck trim and noticed that the 3M tape recommended for the job is suitable for mounting the damping capsule on the Souther so that has been done this afternoon but not yet tested/auditioned. It's the BIC pen barrel filled with micro-glass beads, mounted directly to the rail plate between the spirit level and mounting screw, with three thin strips of the stuff.
Sorry that Lou is out of this and moved on in The Grand Cosmic Scheme, he would have enjoyed these projects.
 
He most certainly would have. In addition, he would enjoy seeing pics of your mods (hint).

Here's the rail damper in place. The purpose of the resonance management mods is to maximize the potential of the assembly for clarity and resolution with a minimal sonic signature.
 

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Latest version w/lateral rail damper coupler;
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HI,
Wrong, I worked on Souther's professionally, both doing raw installs and keeping my customers systems tuned up. The more I was exposed to them in different systems, the more I thought they were a kludge. They hurt my ears.

And you are wrong about the Souther being the first tangential arm that worked. It is the first non-servo tangential arm that KIND OF worked. But there are many servo type arms that vastly outperformed the Souther. But air bearing arms really work. I have owned examples of the various tangential types.

In order of performance:
1. Air bearing (the best, by far; I currently own an Eminent Technology ET-2).
2. Good (means expensive) servo driven arms (B&O, Yamaha, etc.). Don't bother with the cheap ones. They are junk.
3. Passive tangential arms (Souther, Marantz, others?). It's amazing they work at all. I would far prefer to have a top line pivoted arm. In fact I do have a Graham 2.2 Deluxe on my second turntable. A very fine arm, indeed.

Sparky


apparently enjoys blatantly pointing out to people that they are WRONG. maybe find a less snarky way to disagree with someone or to correct them?
 
HI iLUV,
Boy, you dug up an old post. I'm not here to make friends or soothe feelings. Life's too short. And I'll not be lectured by you.

PIO's well aware of my thoughts about the Souther arm. But, I think he thinks I have a point about the arms performance. My problem with it was numerous resonance issues. Now he is doing the right thing and trying to tame them. Lou Souther also put a lot of effort trying to overcome the short comings of the design but he never fully succeeded. I hope PIO succeeds. If he does then we can add the Souther to the short list of great tone arms. But, I'm skeptical. I think the problems are built in.

Sparky
 
It's interesting. I switched to this arm after hearing Grainger's and have much the same tonearm wiring set up he has bypassing the RCA jacks. I am not going to speak authoritatively here, wish I could. But I have never heard any of the resonances people are speaking about and I don't think mine has the the third rod. Obviously he added the third rod for some reason so there must be something there but nothing I can hear. I would absolutely love to see some measurements of a VPI turntable set-up with a Souther versus a regular tonearm and see this proven or disproven, unless that was done and posted and I missed it. The difference when I gave up my Rega (which could have been malfunctioning for all I know) versus the Souther were stunning and I have no intention of going back.
 
I like to think Sparky and I are colleagues and on friendly terms if not too presumptuous, friends, and he has been a good mentor in many ways. That said, he is correct that the earlier Southers were imperfect works-in-progress that Lou never really completed while his project. Mine is an earlier version that has been a bit of a science fair project. Lou addressed many of the problems in his way, me in mine. The one change he made I never liked was going from the hollow arm stick to solid, the hollow stainless-steel tube allowed filling with a particulated damping medium which was a definite improvement. His improvements increased rigidity of the gantry frame, arm stick, and the rail plate, probably raising their resonance freqs, while mine dealt with the resonances with dead-mass load damping in 3 critical areas, the gantry frame, the arm stick, and the rail plate. The dust cover must come off and the wire guide rod and cueing shaft be damped via wedging felt pad dampers. I probably should have asked him for a Tri-Quartz rail plate to try but it never occurred to me to do so when I had the opportunity. The resonances are apparent to some immediately, to everyone by their absence when dealt with. The resonance management benefits include less 'peaky' more neutral tonal response, tighter image focus & better 'staging', and cleaner more precise micro-detailing and micro-dynamics. The mod'ed assembly exhibits (IMHO) a uniquely remarkable and absolutely captivating ethereal precision of reproduction.
I have yet to try the single-run signal lead mod but perhaps someday when I have satisfied myself that the fundamental problems have been addressed (and I may be 'there' now).

FWIW, some are concerned about the air bearing arm air cushion decoupling effect affecting sonix and I believe Bo Hansson of Opus-3 recording/ Rauna was one such. He was the Souther agent for Sweden and instituted his own improvement program which, with Lou's blessing AFAIK, resulted in the similarly as-yet incompletely perfected but elegantly simple Cantus cantilevered gantry LT arm, see attachment. Like Lou, Bo spent a lot of time listening to variations of material and components in development to make what they thought the best sounding choices for the final product. Bo passed a year and a half ago and so with production now in limbo, his partner intends to perfect and stabilize the design of the Cantus and bring it forth again. As nice as the produced ones looked they were more proof-of-principle variable-example items that could be more a daunting "science fair project" for the user than a finished product as ergos and ease-of-set-up went. Mounting & VTA and levelling set-up difficulties and the fact that they don't swing out of the way, up like the Souther or 'garden-gate' style like the Linatrack gantry are but some issues to be addressed. There is a very long and interesting thread on this thing in DIY audio; http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/analogue-source/34126-opus-3-cantus-parallel-tracking-arm.html
The Clearaudio LT arms are pretty much "perfected" as far as finish, construction, and ergonomics are concerned and use principles of either the Souther or Cantus depending on which model/version. Bo thought the thin tube arms the best approach as did Lou and it appears that Clearaudio chose to abandon that concept for thicker arms. Otherwise I actually in theory and practice prefer the secure 3-point mounting of the earlier Souther gantry frames with the spindle locator rather than the cantilevered later versions tho' have not auditioned them.
 

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Well, I have to admit this is fascinating. I would never say that the resonances aren't there, I hate when someone says you can't hear what you obviously can. And you guys have put a lot of thought and effort into this. I was just downstairs listening to Pink Floyd's "The Wall" on my SLA-3 (thank you for the album Grainger) and marveling at how great it sounds. It really was stunning. But a system is still the sum of its parts and my system is pretty good now. I think for me the nightmare I was experiencing with inner groove distortion on my Rega was driving me crazy. Nothing I did could really remedy it. Now, for around $600, it is gone. Whatever resonances are there I can't pick up and even if I could they are obviously much less of a problem, for me, than the distortion that I just couldn't stand. For me the question is what could I have bought used or new for the same amount of money that would have equaled the performance I am getting now?
 
The competition at $600 would be likely the advanced Analog MG-1 or well-bought ET-II. I expect they would not sound like the Souther, yours or mine.
 
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Paul just reminded me of this thread this afternoon. The Analog MG-1 needs a $140 air pump, so it is a bit more expensive than what Paul paid. $600 for an ET arm is a great deal but I got my Souther Tri-Quartz for $200, back when analog was dead. So I got a great deal.

I think there is really no competition in the $600 range. But who knows what a used piece will go for. There are always deals out there that no one expects.
 
I would have liked to get mine for $200 but being an early adopter bankrolling R&D has it's downside, the upside is that it was paid for a long time ago and I had some delightful correspondence with the Man his-self. The only regret is that I didn't get more litz leads, hollow arm stix and a Tri-Quartz rail plate to play with. Even so, the early versions are easier to "fix" than the later.
The Cantus mightily intrigues me but I know that the Souther ergos are much, much better. Even so, I'd happily catch onesuch falling out of the sky as an alternative.
 
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The competition at $600 would be likely the advanced Analog MG-1 or well-bought ET-II. I expect they would not sound like the Souther, yours or mine.

HI PIO,
A 6 hundred dollar ET2.5 would indeed be well bought. I don't think you will find one. They are currently available new for $3000 and worth it. I bought one at that price. But my first one, bought in 1990 (an ET2 not a ET2.5) was $1200. We will never see that price again.

Sparky
 
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