Speaker "burn in"/"break in" and ELAC Uni-Fi

[jeeem]

Like so many others, I'm a fan of Andrew Jones speakers from Pioneer and ELAC. I love my ELAC Debut B6, Debut 2.0 B6.2, and (most of all) Debut Reference BR62. I tried out the latest Uni-Fi 2.0 B52 but couldn't warm up to them. To me, they sounded bright, tinny, and hollow.

So I returned them and (after doing some research) decided to audition the earlier Uni-Fi UB5, which looks cooler anyway. I've had these for a week and they sound better to me, but for reasons I don't understand they still sound metallic (maybe it's that aluminum driver cone). When I A/B test them against the Reference, the Triangle BR03, and the Focal Chora 806 ... well, the best way I can put it is that, while they're detailed and transparent, they're missing the heart of the music. You can hear all the pieces, and frequencies from low to high, but (despite the vaunted merits of the concentric midrange/tweeter) it's like they never cohere into something musical. I'm always conscious of listening to speakers that are trying to reproduce a recording, but I don't feel like I'm in the presence of the instruments and musicians themselves, playing together. I think of it the way some people have described the "uncanny valley" of early digital (CD) sound. Something's missing, or failing to cohere. It's not an energizing or engaging musical experience. I don't hear music. I hear math. Is this what some critics mean by "analytical"?

So, that's my over-analytical build-up to the question: Could it be that the Uni-Fi's aluminum cone requires a longer "burn-in" time to loosen up and relax into the music? One reviewer mentioned that he ran them for a month before he did any critical evaluation of them.

What do you think? Any experience with these speakers -- or others -- that require extensive "break in"?

The Mini-Wall of Sound Gallery:

 

[mr.muddles]

Have you tried different sources and DACs?

I moved a Topping D50 dac from another room and paired it with my JBL L7 and it sounded too bright and analytical to me -- I switched back to the internal DAC in my Sony DVP-S9000ES which is not as detailed or transparent, but presents a darker more natural sound -- which to my ears work a lot better with the titanium dome tweeters in the JBL L7.

 

[sberger]

My JBL 4312E's required a few weeks of constant play to break in to the point where I was finally getting much better bass and tonality balance. Before that bass was thin and I really had to turn down the tone controls on the speaker to lower the high and mids. The only reason I kept them was because both the manual, and others with the same speakers indicated a long break in process was required. I haven't owned new or nearly new speakers for years, so this was kind of a shock to me. But I'm glad I kept them and now they sound wonderful.

 

[regore]

Any metal cone driver will have that metallic sound at certain frequencies due to cone breakup.
If you can determine the frequency you can design a LCR filter to minimize the issue.
The Thor speakers exhibit the same problem due to cone breakup.
I've used aluminum cone drivers in many guitar amps and they all have that distinctive sound.
Break them in as long as you want but the cone will still be metal. Never in any of my builds!

 

[cademan]

How can speakers have break in? They are just a magnet and coil of wire. Maybe its the components in the crossovers like the capacitors.

 

[sqlsavior]

Some speaker's tonality varies considerably on-axis vs. off-axis. After a week, if you've played them several hours a day, I wouldn't expect much change.

Trust your ears.

 

[Lavane]

How can speakers have break in? They are just a magnet and coil of wire. Maybe its the components in the crossovers like the capacitors.

It may take a few hours of use to allow the surrounds and especially the spider to loosen up some. I don't really buy into capacitor burn in time. Yes, electrolytic caps may need to reform if they have some age to them or maybe from sitting unused for a long time. But film caps? Dunno about that one. I think it's just your ears and brain adjusting to something new. Full range drivers especially need some hours of use to loosen up and sound better. But I'm sure again, some of that is you adjusting to them.

 

[Bodyblue]

How can speakers have break in? They are just a magnet and coil of wire. Maybe its the components in the crossovers like the capacitors.

Anything that moves can have some break in time and drivers have surrounds that move.

But I have yet to hear an Elac speaker that I was super impressed with. They sound ok but not anything close to the orgasmic reaction they got when introduced.

 

[Ruben Acosta]

Like so many others, I'm a fan of Andrew Jones speakers from Pioneer and ELAC. I love my ELAC Debut B6, Debut 2.0 B6.2, and (most of all) Debut Reference BR62. I tried out the latest Uni-Fi 2.0 B52 but couldn't warm up to them. To me, they sounded bright, tinny, and hollow.

So I returned them and (after doing some research) decided to audition the earlier Uni-Fi UB5, which looks cooler anyway. I've had these for a week and they sound better to me, but for reasons I don't understand they still sound metallic (maybe it's that aluminum driver cone). When I A/B test them against the Reference, the Triangle BR03, and the Focal Chora 806 ... well, the best way I can put it is that, while they're detailed and transparent, they're missing the heart of the music. You can hear all the pieces, and frequencies from low to high, but (despite the vaunted merits of the concentric midrange/tweeter) it's like they never cohere into something musical. I'm always conscious of listening to speakers that are trying to reproduce a recording, but I don't feel like I'm in the presence of the instruments and musicians themselves, playing together. I think of it the way some people have described the "uncanny valley" of early digital (CD) sound. Something's missing, or failing to cohere. It's not an energizing or engaging musical experience. I don't hear music. I hear math. Is this what some critics mean by "analytical"?

So, that's my over-analytical build-up to the question: Could it be that the Uni-Fi's aluminum cone requires a longer "burn-in" time to loosen up and relax into the music? One reviewer mentioned that he ran them for a month before he did any critical evaluation of them.

What do you think? Any experience with these speakers -- or others -- that require extensive "break in"?

The Mini-Wall of Sound Gallery:

View attachment 2217259

I think any new speaker unit or driver needs at least 20 to 30 hours of play before expecting them produce their published specs. If after a couple weeks of daily play and you still hear anomalies perhaps turning down tweeters or perhaps you have some out of phase loss around crossover points.

 

[Bob in WI]

How can speakers have break in? They are just a magnet and coil of wire. Maybe its the components in the crossovers like the capacitors.

I had a pair of Tekton Lores w Seas drivers. They took about 40 hours to break in. I'm skeptical of most "break in" claims, but these changed (much for the better) pretty clearly.
I had another pair of Tektons w/o the Seas drivers & if there was break in w them, it was subtle.
I'm afraid I don't have much experience w the Jones designs.

 

[NH-MAN]

Please dont convince yourself to like them just because, there is a perfect one for you out there and you will know it when you hear it; you should love them not accept them.

 

[RunOutGroove]

I had the ELAC Debut B6s and liked, but not loved them (I found that I liked others better), though I've heard that the Uni-Fi speakers are a definite step up. I know that they are less efficient though (maybe considerably so) so I wonder if you're just not pairing it with a powerful enough amp... or if power isn't the issue, but that for one reason or another it isn't well paired somehow to what you have...?

Unless you've got all of those speakers around for separate systems, I'd be inclined to sell them all and then use the money toward a single pair of much higher end speakers. You then might find the ideal ones for what you like...

 

[cademan]

Anything that moves can have some break in time and drivers have surrounds that move.

But I have yet to hear an Elac speaker that I was super impressed with. They sound ok but not anything close to the orgasmic reaction they got when introduced.

Yeah, I just never bought into tne whole burn in process. There might be something to it but I never took thought. I know my speakers in my pole barn sound different according to tempurature but that's as far as I ever thought about it.

 

[jeeem]

I often wonder how much audio equipment burn-in is really brain burn-in. I've had gear in the past that sounded shrill or otherwise weird to me at first -- probably because it wasn't what I'd become accustomed to.

Right now, in my living room set-up, I have the various speakers pictured above and a pair of vintage 1988 Infinity RS-6000s (with Emit tweeters and double subwoofer-scaled drivers). On three different racks/consoles/tables, there is an assortment of vintage equipment, mostly from the '70s: integrated amps, receivers, tube amps, from 30 to 100+ wpc. Mainly I use a McIntosh C28/2505, which is rated at 50 wpc "into 4, 8, or 16 ohms both channels operating" (according to the manual). I also have three switchable DACs in the loop(s): a Schiit Modi Multibit, an iFi Zen, and a Maverick TubeMagic D2.

So, yes, I like to experiment with "flavors" of sound, and I use the various banks of switches like the ones I remember in the boutique audio stores of my youth in the '60s and '70s. I still think the Chora and the Debut Reference are my faves (I have double-stacked Advents -- thanks to The Absolute Sound -- in the dedicated "media room," but I haven't hooked them up yet). The TubeMagic takes some of the edge off the Uni-Fis, and add some richness, but I moved the speakers around today and they started to sound much more impressive running through the Mac and the Schiit. Listened to '60s Barry Harris (and Billy Higgins!), Wynton Kelly, Hank Jones, Ray Brown, and Max Roach today and the music really started to come through -- especially the cymbals and snares, but the kick drums developed some punch, too.

P.S. I thought these were interesting:

https://www.audioholics.com/loudspeaker-design/speaker-break-in-fact-or-fiction
https://www.klipsch.com/blog/how-and-why-to-break-in-your-new-speakers
https://reverb.com/news/speaker-break-in

“Think of it like wearing a new pair of shoes. I always like the feel of a new shoe on first impression because it will have more padding and support than the old worn out shoe and there’s that immediate sensation of comfort. But as you begin walking around in them the first couple of days, they have a tendency to hurt your feet a bit until they contour to your foot and wear in. The suspension parts of the speaker have to wear in and settle into a “comfortable” position. This includes the cone surround and the spider. This continues for the life of the speaker. The most noticeable amount, though, happens in the early stages, and this is what guitarists refer to as the break-in process. As a hypothetical example, the speaker might change 10–20 percent in the early stages, but only 1–5 percent more in the middle to later stages of its lifespan.”

 

[Hammett]

My Uni-Fi UF5 (original series) sounded terrible at first, but settled in over time. It was not a subtle change. I did not just get used to them (nor, for that matter, did my spouse, who found them painful right out of the box).

 

[Bob in WI]

I often wonder how much audio equipment burn-in is really brain burn-in

I get the skepticism. I read about speaker wires needing 80 hours to "burn in" & power cords that need to burn in & I think the poster maybe burned a few too many recreational drugs.
But like I posted, I had one set of speakers that absolutely sounded better over time - the difference was pretty clear.
So, on some level, there is in my experience some legitimacy to the "burn in" concept. But, I think some take it way too far..... & I don't think its as common as is generally thought.

 

[Tom Brennan]

I never heard a bad speaker get good. JBL Pro, a no nonsense outfit that makes serious speakers intended as tools, says changes in a new woofer's suspension generally take place quickly, upon the first hour of use. Do a little math and you see tweeters make millions of excursions in a very short time.

If speaker break in were such a big deal I think Olson would've made note of it.

 

[Nixxuz]

I know a lot of people think it's your ears burning in instead of [insert piece of equipment], but how exactly is that supposed to work for people who have multiple systems and listen them all regularly? "Burn in" doesn't typically seem to take minutes, so it would be weird for your ears to continually get used to different systems that quickly.
Also, speakers are generally NOT "burnt in" at the factory. These days, at least for budget speakers, you'd be very lucky if they test one in 100 pair that go out the door. Speakers actually have moving parts, and a speaker freshly assembled isn't going to have the same T/S parameters as one that's been actually used for any decent amount of time.

 

[RunOutGroove]

I know a lot of people think it's your ears burning in instead of [insert piece of equipment], but how exactly is that supposed to work for people who have multiple systems and listen them all regularly? "Burn in" doesn't typically seem to take minutes, so it would be weird for your ears to continually get used to different systems that quickly.
Also, speakers are generally NOT "burnt in" at the factory. These days, at least for budget speakers, you'd be very lucky if they test one in 100 pair that go out the door. Speakers actually have moving parts, and a speaker freshly assembled isn't going to have the same T/S parameters as one that's been actually used for any decent amount of time.

I don't know about wires or other types of things (with those, I'm more skeptical) but over the years, I've noticed a change in sound (and improvement, in all cases!) with several speakers that I've owned. In a few cases, I bought speakers used, but nearly new, likely without enough time on them to be considered fully broken in. I can't say with 100% authority that my mind wasn't just adjusting to the sound of these speakers, but I'm 95% sure that the sound of the speakers actually did change, not just my perception of it. In all cases the sound got a bit smoother, particularly the highs. The way that a speaker is made, with a voice coil that moves in and out, it does seem that it's likely that at least with some that there's going to be a change where some initial stiffness gets worked out over time and if the movement becomes smoother than the sound does as well...

 

[Tom Brennan]

I know a lot of people think it's your ears burning in instead of [insert piece of equipment], but how exactly is that supposed to work for people who have multiple systems and listen them all regularly?

I think many audiophiles are delusional. Having deluded myself in these matters I'm quite confident in the ability of others to delude themselves.